NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Airy on September 27, 2016, 05:53:18
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Two such lenses are for sale in a reputable Leica shop, 400€ each, 3 months guarantee.
Has somebody got any experience of such lenses ? there is also a 35/2 and 21/4, by the way.
I guess they will work in non-AI mode on the Df (or, more likely, as I used PC lenses on D800 : focus wide open, then close diaphragm, then meter and trigger, but with the disadvantage that the Leicas have no aperture preset ring)
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http://www.leitax.com/leica-lens-for-nikon-cameras.html
:o :o :o
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I haven't used neither of these lenses. But, according to my experience of using Leica M cameras and lenses in the 80s-90s, the Leica lenses (the then-latest, older or prewar) are prone to fog. It was even fairly safe to assume that any used Leica lenses are more or less fogged.
What makes things worse is that Leica lenses (at least from that time or older) uses soft coatings on the internal elements which are easy to be scratched when you try to clean.
I would stay away from these.
Incidentally, the optical elements of the last, 6-element-4-group version of Summicron-R 50/2.0 was made by Minolta.
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Two such lenses are for sale in a reputable Leica shop, 400€ each, 3 months guarantee.
Has somebody got any experience of such lenses ? there is also a 35/2 and 21/4, by the way.
I guess they will work in non-AI mode on the Df (or, more likely, as I used PC lenses on D800 : focus wide open, then close diaphragm, then meter and trigger, but with the disadvantage that the Leicas have no aperture preset ring)
The Leica R Summicron 50/2 is a very popular lens among photographers. Same goes for "most" of the Leica R lenses.
The 50/2 is a sharp len and a little jewel in as so much you can achieve the famous Leica glow look under certain conditions.
As far as I am concerned, Leica R glass is the best glass money can buy....I know. I have the 50/2 as well as all the top range of all Leica R glass including the Summilux 50/1.4 - E60.
The 50/2 is small enough to be carried in the pocket and has the built in telescopic hood, it can take the Elpro close up attachments.
You have to make sure that you get the newer version of the Summicron 50/2 by checking that the lens serial number is higher than 2777651. The reason being that there is an older version of the Cron 50 which is not as good.
As you are buying from a good Leica shop with the added safety of 3 month return then go for it and enjoy the Leica glass nirvana.....of course manual focus.
I use all my Nikon mounts adapters from Leitax,
The Summilux 35 3 cam needs a bit of filing in order not to hit the Nikon mount while the Summicron is OK not to hit the mount. The Super Angulon 21/4 is not worth getting.
Leica R Summicron 50/2 VII
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/50mm_f/2_Summicron-R_II
All Leica R glass
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/R_Lenses_x_Focal_Length
I haven't used neither of these lenses. But, according to my experience of using Leica M cameras and lenses in the 80s-90s, the Leica lenses (the then-latest, older or prewar) are prone to fog. It was even fairly safe to assume that any used Leica lenses are more or less fogged.
What makes things worse is that Leica lenses (at least from that time or older) uses soft coatings on the internal elements which are easy to be scratched when you try to clean.
I would stay away from these.
Incidentally, the optical elements of the last, 6-element-4-group version of Summicron-R 50/2.0 was made by Minolta.
Akira you usually make sound comments, but I need to call you out on this one.
I do not know from where and how you got your information on Leica R glass and specifically the Cron 50/2 which you admit to have never used or tried.
The Summicron 50/2 VII has nothing to do with Minolta, You are mixing up with the Elmarit 24/2.8. Sigma and Minolta produced some zooms.
I would be grateful if you direct me to your source of information as I would like to correct my information if applicable for the VI.
Fogged glass as a blanket statement.....really ?!?...My oh My.....
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Thanks for all advice provided so far, with all niceties and caveats ! I'll definitely look at these and try them out.
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Mine was made in the late 60's early 70's.
I like it, it's small and quality is just fine but to use it you have to focus wide open, then close diaphragm, then meter and trigger. :P
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Akira you usually make sound comments, but I need to call you out on this one.
I do not know from where and how you got your information on Leica R glass and specifically the Cron 50/2 which you admit to have never used or tried.
The Summicron 50/2 VII has nothing to do with Minolta, You are mixing up with the Elmarit 24/2.8. Sigma and Minolta produced some zooms.
I would be grateful if you direct me to your source of information as I would like to correct my information if applicable for the VI.
Fogged glass as a blanket statement.....really ?!?...My oh My.....
Almass, while I used Leica M at that time, I've often heard in the retailers and read in magazines here in Japan that the optical element of Summicron-R was ground at Minolta for lowering the cost. So, I've taken it for granted that it is a common knowledge. I quickly looked for any info on this, but found nothing to support that. Apparently I should take back my previous comment. Thanks for the correction and I'm sorry for the confusion. I didn't know that the Elmarit-R 24/2.8 was designed by Minolta and its early versions were also made by Minolta. I do know some zooms were designed (and some were made) by Minolta.
As for the fogging, this is based on my solid experiences of looking for various second hand M or L mount Leica 50mm lenses (as I was mostly using standard lenses). It was very difficult to find clean ones. Sometimes the sealed, brand new ones turned out to be a bit foggy. That is very different from the case with Nikkor lenses, for example.
Some said that Leica products were not very resistant to the humidity. As well as the coatings, the copper printed patterns of circuit boards in Leica R4 or M6 were corroded too easily, compared to those in the cameras of Japanese brands.
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"Overseas" conditions like those commonly encountered in Taiwan or in at least the southern parts of Japan used to be a challenge to "western" train (rolling stock) makers, that were prompt to underestimate the effects of high temperatures and high humidity. I guess camera-makers may have encountered similar difficulties, so I am not surprized at Akira's comments.
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Yes, my friend found a similar problem with his BMW about 10-15 years ago: the contacts of its fuse box corroded too easily.
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Mmm - I wonder if this is why BMW car and motorbike electrics have caused more than their fair share of problems out here compared to those encountered in other makes?
Yes, my friend found a similar problem with his BMW about 10-15 years ago: the contacts of its fuse box corroded too easily.
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Mmm - I wonder if this is why BMW car and motorbike electrics have caused more than their fair share of problems out here compared to those encountered in other makes?
How is the general climate of your area? Here in Tokyo, it is terribly humid from June to September.
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The top half of Australia, especially in the vicinity of the coastal regions, can be both warm and humid in the wet season, i.e. our late spring through summer.
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I see. During the late spring to late summer, we have rainy season as well as many typhoons that supplies huge amount of moisture. Japanese manufacturers, of course, are well aware that, but, as Airy pointed out, some European manufacturers were less serious about that. Leica seemed to have been one of them. I think they new how to deal with the very dry conditions, but not so with the humid climate.
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Certainly Japanese vehicles are to be preferred for outback / off road motoring in Northern Australia and Queensland. As well as being mechanically and electrically reliable, the dealer and support networks are superior to those from Europe or the US. Toyota Landcruisers are the most popular, followed by Nissan.
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I have seen Leica R macro lens glass deployed with great results on Nikon and Canon DSLR bodies, especially the Leica Macro Elmarit-R 60mm f/2.8 and the excellent Leica APO Macro Elmarit-R 100mm f/2.8. I have no knowledge of how well the Leica 50mm f/2.0 Summicron-R would fare on a Nikon or Canon DSLR, other than the images posted here by Michel. The stop down metering might put some off, but for close up work, you are manually focussing anyway, so stop down metering is not a deal breaker.
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the old L39 and M lenses were very often stated foggy inside. I have a 2.0 50mm Summar and a dto. Summitar, were you might see it, my 2.0 50mm Summicron rigid has no fog, but you see regularly in ebay such lenses decribed having light fog inside. The Summar have soft glas, you could destroy it while cleaning, that´s true.
My 2.0 50mm R Summicron has nothing of all, it is a truely modern lens with totally different drawing than the M version. I have not modified it to Nikon, using on the NEX give crisp and colourful pictures, which I like very much. I still see nothing beeing mechanically better than Leica R and if you can give yours back after a few days testing, go and test it. The R lenses were the glass was made by Minolta are imo, the 24mm and the 28mm, 35-70mm and the 16mm fisheye (which is my best fish for NEX)
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It is looking like me only (so far!) used to use Nikon F2R body with old R mount, a lot of years ago. The 21, 35, 50, 100-135(?), 280R lenses were in my possession. Much later I had Angenieux 28-70 zoom, converted to R mount. Having had very bad experience with all Leicaflex bodies before, I've turned myself to that Nikon F2R, and got clear piece of mind, finally. This body had never ever let me down. And yes, couple of my Leica lenses were foggy, what I used to clean them myself, if it was possible, of course. Much later, I used these skills to fix my Nikkors, including very first Noct. Just to say. THX! LZ
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In addition to those already mentioned, the Leica R 19mm/2.8(mk2,compact) was reputed to be a Minolta Product. Also, the R 15/3.5 was a rehoused Zeiss 15/3.5 that Zeiss originally producedt for the Contax RTS.
I haven't used any Leica M or R lenses since I gave up film in 2006, but they always seemed to live up to the Leica marketing literature that stated their lenses would be useable at all stops, from wide open to stopped all the way down.
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I went sometime ago with compiling a list of the lenses "not to acquire" for my collection of Leica R glass as follows:
And in order to be factual. The following Leica R lenses were produced by:
Minolta
- 16mm f/2.8 Elmarit
- 24mm f/2.8 Elmarit
- 35mm–70mm f/3.5 Vario-Elmar
- 75mm–200mm f/4.5 Vario-Elmar
- 70mm–210mm f/4 Vario-Elmar
- 80mm–200mm f/4.5 Vario-Elmar
- 500mm f/8 MR-Telyt
Both Elmarit 28/2.8 are not Minolta as the Minolta has 5/5 elements and the Leica R has 8/7 and 8/8 respectively.
Zeiss
- 15mm f/3.5 Super-Elmar
Schneider-Kreuznach
- 15mm f/2.8 Super-Elmarit
- 21mm f/3.4 Super-Angulon
- 21mm f/4 Super-Angulon
- 28mm f/2.8 PC-Super-Angulon
- 35mm f/4 PA-Curtagon.
Sigma
- 28mm–70mm f/3.5–4.5 Vario Elmar
Kyocera
- 35mm–70mm f/4 Vario-Elmar
- 80mm–200mm f/4 Vario-Elmar
If you have lot of time on your hands, you can check the Minolta Lens Chronology here:
http://thesybersite.com/minolta/historical/Minolta_Lens_Chronology.htm
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Did Angenieux not make lenses for Leica? The 45-90?
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Wrong post. Deleted. Sorry!
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Did Angenieux not make lenses for Leica? The 45-90?
Not for the Leica R, they did not.
There is no 45-90 R.
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My understanding is that the Angenieux 45-90mm zoom lens in R-mount was marketed by Leitz, but not as a Leica lens.
In other words it was marketed as an Angenieux lens suitable for Leica-R cameras.
An ugly one is currently on sale on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/P-Angenieux-Paris-45-90mm-f-2-8-Camera-Lens-For-Leica-R-SN-1258485-/121073775862
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Some said that Leica products were not very resistant to the humidity. As well as the coatings, the copper printed patterns of circuit boards in Leica R4 or M6 were corroded too easily, compared to those in the cameras of Japanese brands.
I believe the F3's printed circuits are epoxy coated. I think I read this at Photography in Malaysia.
Dave
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My understanding is that the Angenieux 45-90mm zoom lens in R-mount was marketed by Leitz, but not as a Leica lens.
"The 45-90mm Angenieux Zoom lens was the only non-Leica lens that Leica endorsed and sold as part of the Leicaflex kit. For a brief period, it was also marketed in a 3-Cam version for use with the then New Leica R3". So, it's a non-Leica lens ;)
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Saw the lenses minutes ago. One is latest design (ser no > 2777651). Excellent condition, no scratches or dents, little dust, no apparent veiling. Focus ring rather stiff (like Zeiss 50/2), diaph ring very loose (ditto), so setting diaph "by feel" is somewhat difficult. Df set to 50/2 AI lens, so that exposure is correctly measured when diaph is closed immediately before triggering the shutter. In a mode with autoISO one, it works with acceptable ergonomics. Builtin telescopic hood is nice.
IQ : from first tests (streetshots), pretty sharp indeed, with low vignetting and aberrations. Impossible to focus using the focus confirmation dot, as the "in focus" zone is too wide, and the best focus does not seem to be centered in that zone, but is rather close to one edge (just before the dot starts blinking). Focussing on the matte screen (wide open) or in LV is the only way, and not particularly difficult. The lens may not be overwhelmingly superior to many others, but is probably one of the better performers. I'll have a second at the shots this evening.
Bottom line: lens reserved, I'll pick it up next Friday.
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I guess you'll soon be ready to write a book titled "50 shades of normal lens", right?
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:)
I'd like to. You already could preview some chapters here and elsewhere.
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I believe the F3's printed circuits are epoxy coated. I think I read this at Photography in Malaysia.
Dave
I have an original F3 catalog. So far as this image is concerned, only the onboard chips are epoxy coated and not the entire circuit board.
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Addition : after having looked at the pics on screen (using LR), I can tell you that there is nearly no visible CA. Just some LoCA becoming apparent on high contrast edges (leaves shot against the sunlight). Clean pics indeed, no mush, good work against the sunlight.
Some glow off center on shiny or bright parts against a dark background, blue rather than pink. Bokeh : average; there is definitely outlining of bokeh bubbles (on shiny parts) that may lead to double edging. Attached is a 100% crop of a treetop (pic was shot wide open).
The diaphragm is 6-bladed, but with rounded blades, so it is not likely to make things worse. Still, I am not sure about the lens nighttime performance.
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Congrats on your newly acquired lens.
You have now entered the world of Leica R glass......there is no turning back 8)
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Acquisition is scheduled for tomorrow (bank account back to > 0), but thanks anyway.
"No way back"? there will be lots of back-and-forths as usual. I keep oscillating between the latest Zeiss 50/2 and the old Nikkor 50/2, being equally satisfied by both, for very different reasons. So far the Nikkor ergonomics are best: full stop aperture clicks for instance are best for "instinctive" shooting, never looking at the aperture scale. This is where the summicron lacks: half stops (too soft by the way), narrow scale, reversed compared with nikkors, and worst of all - the max aperture click is not at the end of the throw, you may turn the ring past it (with no effect of course on aperture). I anticipate this to be the biggest issue, especially since I'll have to open the diaph for focussing and close it again. But that's probably the only one, and since I intend to use the lens mainly at f/2-f/4, a zone where stopped-down focussing remains acceptable, I'll take the risk. I have used the PC 35/2.8 this way, and still enjoyed it.
Sunday will be my first stay ever in Madrid, and I guess the 50/2 will make the trip and see extensive usage, night and day.
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Have a great trip.
I loved Madrid and its friendly people.
Will be interested to see how the Nikkor 50mm/f2.0 compares with the Summicron in your capable hands.
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Sunday will be my first stay ever in Madrid, and I guess the 50/2 will make the trip and see extensive usage, night and day.
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I guess I'll take both. Unfortunately it is a biz trip, which reduces the shooting latitude.
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Despite the biz-trip, have fun there ;)
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There it is, in my bag.
First impressions :
Pro - sharp wide open (even off center) at all distances, low CA, decent vignetting, near-zero distortion
Average - Bokeh is not bad, but can be nervous.
Con- color shift (cold at f/2, warm at f/8) that nmight be linked with the stopped down metering procedure (see below), some distinct coma, field curvature in a distance (about 10m : focus plane corners bent towards photographer), not very convenient aperture ring; some flare and ghosting when the sun is near a corner. MFD could easily have been shorter.
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Here an example of the changing WB (so were the weather conditions, but I do not think they are the culprit here). Shot at f/2 and f/8.
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Here an example of the changing WB (so were the weather conditions, but I do not think they are the culprit here). Shot at f/2 and f/8.
Could you please advise what where the camera settings for each shot?
ISO (auto?) - shutter speed and aperture?
I assume you had the lens flagged in the camera Non CPU lens data?
I just took few shots with the Cron 50/2 at f2 and f8 with Aperture Priority and other shots with full manual. I cannot see any difference besides that the images are darker at f8.
BTW, the focus ring should not be stiff.
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Congratulations on the new lens ;)
I'm sure there is an explanation for the changed WB and it's not due to the lens.
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Almass, when I say "stiff" it means "Zeiss 50MP-like". Nothing really abnormal, but I have no other Leica R to compare with.
I checked the outcome of autoWB: 1st one 4642K and +1.077 tint offset (in rawtherapee); 2nd one 4922K and 1.027.
I guess AutoWB reacts to the +/- vignetted image, since exposure is set after stopping down on my Df. In such case, WB cannot be identical. But you and Erik are probably right in saying that the lens is NOT the culprit
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To put your own mind at ease, try repeating the aperture/color comparison in a controlled situation.
The vagaries of sun, clouds, and subject can affect the apparent white balance, in my experience.
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Right, but I drew the (wrong) conclusion from several (apparently) correct observations. I'll sure check again with auto ISO on or off.
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Please just go and shoot son images and have fun! ;)
It's futile to hunt a non existing WB aperture dependency :o
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That's what I am doing anyway :)
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As you may know from another thread, I am out for several days with the Df + Summicron and NOTHING else. Not even a pola filter. Not even the indispensable 105/2.5. Nothing, really.
So far I am pleased to report that
1) doubly manual operation (focus, then diaphragm closure) is a sweet pain in the neck
2) the Summicron tends to fool the auto white balance - I saw another user stating this on a Lecaist forum, by the way
3) that being said, the colour rendition is really excellent. Definitely an autumn lens.
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a few examples from Fulda (deep into Germany)
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Beautiful photos Airy!
I can't wait till I get my 90/2 Summicron and convert it into F mount. Gonna be gun!
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Thanks and enjoy your 90/2. However it is difficult to say where the "beauty" comes from - intrinsic optical qualities ? most modern optics offer high quality at democratic prices (see 50/1.8G, or Tamron 85/1.8, etc.). So did old ones (see 105/2.5).
Ergonomics? these doubly-manual lenses suck. Handling (some people use "haptics" or the like)? maybe, reminding better Swiss mechanical watches. The induced slowdown and care taken for each shot? more probably...
Maybe I should consider buying a Sinar after all... ;)
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Here my 2cts to that, my album with Summicron 2/50 shots: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums/72157628997446415 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums/72157628997446415)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8752/16717989130_13a6cf7c4d_o.jpg)
(shot fully open)