NikonGear'23

Travelogues => Travel Diaries => Topic started by: Jakov Minić on September 22, 2016, 22:29:01

Title: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: Jakov Minić on September 22, 2016, 22:29:01
Erik, arrived to The Hague last night.
A few beers and catching up until late occurred only to be woken up by construction works in the apartment above from mine.
We then had a nutritious breakfast and started doing what we all know happens when you have Dr Lens in the vicinity :)

On this occasion Dr Lens was removing the sunshade of a 10.5 DX fish-eye.
Dr Lens was very skillful and handy in using what he could find lying around my place. He used a very old mini tripod, a tripod ring from a 300/4.5, a cloth and an ARCA Swiss quick release clamp in order to fit his dremel nicely in the never seen before contraption.

More to follow....
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: chris dees on September 22, 2016, 22:45:56
We had a good dinner (and of course something to drink ;D) at JA-'s place.
D810 105/1.4 @ ISO3200 1/30 wide open handheld (and therefore not 100% sharp)
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: PeterN on September 22, 2016, 22:50:29
That looks like a productive and entertaining GtG
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Jakov Minić on September 22, 2016, 23:01:09
Dr Lens and I took a stroll through The Hague.
Of course the 10.5 DX without the sunshade needed to be deployed :)

I haven't cropped out the black parts of the photo so that it is clearly seen what the image circle looks like on an FX sensor (D750).

It is really sharp and the rendering of the background out of focus areas are surprisingly good for such a lens :)
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: chris dees on September 22, 2016, 23:05:24
The 105 is glued on my D810. ;D
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Jakov Minić on September 22, 2016, 23:21:16
I will NOT buy the 105/1.4!

Here is another 10.5 image, I really like the results. Shot at f/8 so go figure the depth of field stories about wide lenses :D

Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Jakov Minić on September 22, 2016, 23:30:25
So blessed to have Erik around.
First he noticed that the 10.5 was filthy, so what else than mount the 45P while Erik cleans the filth :)

Thank you Erik. I am so happy to know you! You are an amazing guy!!!
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: chris dees on September 22, 2016, 23:31:57
I will NOT buy the 105/1.4!

Here is another 10.5 image, I really like the results. Shot at f/8 so go figure the depth of field stories about wide lenses :D

10.5 or 105 it's just a small difference ;D
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Jakov Minić on September 22, 2016, 23:55:31
One of the reasons why I will NOT buy the 105/1.4 is the fact that I have so many new toys to play with.
Here are two images made with the 20/1.8. What a lens!!!
The first one depicts the newly modified 10.5/2.8 and the love of my life, the 45P.
Hence my new kit of lenses for this trip consists of 10, 20 and 40 (or to be more exact 10.5, 20, and 45mm) :)

Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Jakov Minić on September 23, 2016, 00:04:45
It goes without saying that a selfie was unavoidable  8)
Waiting for a Cesar salad in The Hague.
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Jakov Minić on September 23, 2016, 00:59:44
After our walk-through The Hague, we decided to buy a present for Bjørn. What to buy?
A lens of course. Where to buy a lens? In a specialised lens store.
Where is the lens store. In Rotterdam.
We arrived at Rotterdam, no lens store.
Where is the lens store gone?
To Delft. Let's go to Delft.
We found the store, we bought a 35cm f/4.5 Nikkor-T guessing that Bjørn shouldn't posses a lens that has been produced in only 620 copies.
Well, we guessed wrong, but Bjørn is very happy. Who has two copies of such a lens? :D

Anyway here are some shots of Delft in front of the camera store.
Delft is high on the list for or an NG get together ;)
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Akira on September 23, 2016, 01:18:54
Amazing anecdote from Photokina 2016, Jakov!

If I remember correctly, Eric used a piece of thin brass insert between the inner barrel and the hood to protect the inner barrel while the hood was cut, when he worked on Bjørn's 10.5 fisheye.

Anyway, your travel lens set looks nice!
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: tommiejeep on September 23, 2016, 05:50:04
Nice to see you guys hard at work having fun  :) Jakow, nice to see at least one other smoker left alive  ;) .  I could probably afford a 105 1.4 if I stopped smoking  >:( .Sort of OT but my wife and Drs are shouting at me  ;)
Tom
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Jan Anne on September 23, 2016, 09:59:13
So the crew plus Chris Dees is enroute with Jakovic behind the steering wheel of El Presidente, always a pleasure to hear that impressive V8 roar  ;D

We should be there around 11:30 if things go to plan.
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Danulon on September 23, 2016, 11:04:17
One of the reasons why I will NOT buy the 105/1.4 is the fact that I have so many new toys to play with.
Here are two images made with the 20/1.8. What a lens!!!
The first one depicts the newly modified 10.5/2.8 and the love of my life, the 45P.
Hence my new kit of lenses for this trip consists of 10, 20 and 40 (or to be more exact 10.5, 20, and 45mm) :)

Lately you are so very wide angle! Why spoil that with another tele?

P.S. Btw already at the Nikon Booth. That Nikon 105: what a hefty diameter, but what nice photos by Chris!

Curious wehtuet I will find the Crew at noon!
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Olivier on September 23, 2016, 11:27:56
Jakov, I hear the 105mm is 10 times the 10.5mm...
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Fons Baerken on September 23, 2016, 11:38:48
Better wide than tight
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: stenrasmussen on September 23, 2016, 12:58:25
That 105/1.4 renders with such grace and bewt!!
Having said that, I sincerely think many of the latest Nikkors has some of that old school rendering still in them.
I always enjoy these "jounalistic" reports from you guys 😊
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Erik Lund on September 23, 2016, 18:58:41
Irix 11mm Nikon D810 wide open f/4 at near focus limit. Very contrasty and saturated, sharpness fully acceptable all the way to the edge

(https://c4.staticflickr.com/9/8383/29251627123_6720b6f027_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/LySeCF)_EGL6328 (https://flic.kr/p/LySeCF) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Jakov Minić on September 23, 2016, 19:08:32
I tried the IRIX 11/4 capturing Werner up close wide open.
It's not an easy lens to focus. Apart from that looks cool :)

I will NOT buy the IRIXXXXXX!
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Jakov Minić on September 23, 2016, 19:12:14
Thank you all for your kind words of support for the 10 times 10.5 fish-eye. What would I do without you :D

Erik has gone retro on me!?
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Erik Lund on September 23, 2016, 19:20:10
Thanks Jakov  ;) Indeed that 10.5 is nice!

High ISO shot for the Nikon D810,,, Here again Irix 11mm f/4 Contrast remarkable, sharpness runs pretty well across most of the frame, some barrel distortion but easy to correct, a bit of CA also easy to correct,,, what to say - Very nice lens indeed for those spectacular Ultra Wide captures!

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8489/29584799280_3041f78145_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/M5iQ7d)_EGL6331 (https://flic.kr/p/M5iQ7d) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Jakov Minić on September 23, 2016, 19:51:12
Erik, Jan Anne and Chris, feeling happy and inspired at Photokina.
Or is Jan Anne preparing his number for the Olympic games in Tokyo :)
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on September 23, 2016, 20:14:04
Jakov is sooo happy he decided not to buy the Irixxxx. However, he forgot to write the promise 1000 times so is still not in the clear !!!

(D500, AFS 105/1.4 E)

Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Alaun on September 23, 2016, 20:23:42
There were some obvious trends, what is in and what is out   ;)

Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Alaun on September 23, 2016, 20:26:41
Making of #18

Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Alaun on September 23, 2016, 20:34:45
This shot is done with the other new wide angle lens
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Jakov Minić on September 23, 2016, 20:51:03
It was so good to see Werner and Günther today!

Bjørn and I made some selfies in front of the north entrance :)


Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on September 23, 2016, 20:58:15
People visit PhotoKina to be seen ...

D500, AFS 105/1.4 E

Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Olivier on September 23, 2016, 21:02:41
Finally I understand the meaning of purple fringing
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: chris dees on September 23, 2016, 21:20:22
The Sigma ART 1.4 collection.
The 85 is really big, it's 2cm larger than the Nikon 105/1.4 and same diameter..
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: chris dees on September 23, 2016, 21:23:20
Erik finally found his lens and of course Jakov is taking a picture of it. :)
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on September 23, 2016, 22:46:10
The "big" news at Nikon, apart from the already quite familiar D500, was the petite D3400. A further step in dumbing down the entry-level DSLRs.

Here shown with its equally tiny kit lens, set against a heavy-duty "full frame"  D810 and the AFS 105/1.4 E Nikkor courtesy Chris D.
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on September 23, 2016, 22:52:41
This guy apparently was there for us ?? not much to tell, though.

D500, AFS 105/1.4, again demonstrating its optical capability.
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: chris dees on September 23, 2016, 23:08:48
Impression of the Nikon booth and the keymission360
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 23, 2016, 23:10:10
It was so good to see Werner and Günther today!
Bjørn and I made some selfies in front of the north entrance :)

I love you guys!
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Akira on September 24, 2016, 01:00:42
Making of #18

...and #18 was actually the making of #25.  :D
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Jan Anne on September 24, 2016, 10:56:52
Erik enjoying his new workshop, chipping lenses of course :)

Image taken with the "56mm" lens in the iPhone 7 Plus.
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Jakov Minić on September 24, 2016, 11:10:31
JA, beat me to it. Nice to have a smartphone and post immediately. Think about it Nikon!!!!

A nice sunny morning at JA's farm. What a lovely place and what a lovely time we are having.
Erik aka Dr Lens didn't hold tools in his hands for about 48 hours so he became nervous.
Chris came to the rescue and gave him a 35/2 to chip.

In the background Bjørn is examining a Zenit 85/1.5 waiting patiently in the queue to be chipped.
So are the sunflowers  ::)
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: chris dees on September 24, 2016, 11:55:21
Chipping time!
Erik is going to chip 3 of my old lenses;
Nikkor-OC 35/2.0 AI-d (1973)
Nikkor-HC 85/1.8 AI-d (1973)
Nikko-QC 135/3.5 AI-d (1975)
All in pretty good shape

Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: chris dees on September 24, 2016, 11:58:52
Jakov came by to inspect Erik's work.
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: chris dees on September 24, 2016, 12:01:53
The chip components. They are programmed by Bjørn.
Continuing the work and some tools.
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: chris dees on September 24, 2016, 12:08:17
The process continues.
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: chris dees on September 24, 2016, 12:10:28
Finalizing the chipping and a few images with the 35/2.0 form the terrace at JA's place.
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: chris dees on September 24, 2016, 12:21:27
My only contribution to this process was the registration and taking care of the refreshments. :D
Df and chipped 135/3.5 QC
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: Jakov Minić on September 24, 2016, 12:27:48
Whenever I meet up with the crew I learn something new :)
When Erik cut off the sunshade of the 10.5DX he told me whilst I was shooting to make two images, one in landscape and one in portrait orientation and get a full image circle.
All I needed to do is learn from Chris that there is a Photomerge function in PS :D
Now I have another circular fish-eye, the trick is just to make two images. You do need to be careful when taking the two images though, not to change the perspective too much between images :)
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: Akira on September 24, 2016, 12:30:40
I didn't realize such and application of Photomerge.  Great to know!  Thanks for sharing Chris and Jakov!  I love the first image.  Great processing!
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: chris dees on September 24, 2016, 12:39:02
The result of the very fine work from Erik.
Thanks Erik and Bjørn, I'm very happy with the results.
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: chris dees on September 24, 2016, 13:08:32
Testing the 85 at different apertures.
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Kim Pilegaard on September 24, 2016, 13:14:56
Erik finally found his lens and of course Jakov is taking a picture of it. :)
Funny picture of probably an old material for lenses. By the way, what is the opinion on the Berlebach Pegasus head?
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: Erik Lund on September 24, 2016, 15:37:38
Some very good company at JA's Farm ;) Amazing images guys! Wow!

Sorry Kim I didn't take notice of the head or the tripod :)
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: chris dees on September 24, 2016, 15:40:59
Eric did another great job for me by cutting the hood off from the 10.5 DX fish.
Of course I took a few pictures of the process and the end result.
I was too late to make a picture of the original, the lens was already wrapped with plastic and tape for protection.
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: chris dees on September 24, 2016, 17:57:15
Of course I had to try it.
2 images, one portrait, one landscape and put together in PS (with the help of Jakov :D).
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: Jakov Minić on September 24, 2016, 18:56:29
Excellent Chris!
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: chris dees on September 24, 2016, 20:54:38
My best image of the weekend (and we have still a day to go).
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: Erik Lund on September 24, 2016, 22:13:53
Very nice Chris! - Get Closer always does it ;)
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on September 24, 2016, 22:42:42
As indicated above, we initiated another sunflower session, this time using the 10.5 mm Fish (Close Shave).

My take, D500 (DX, thus shaving didn't enable me to follow-up Chris' circular versions)

Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: Akira on September 25, 2016, 01:21:55
Fantastic job, Erik!  The modified lens looks neat.  I think Erik inserted a thin piece of metal between the outer and the inner barrel to protect the latter from the rim saw?
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: simato73 on September 25, 2016, 08:26:39
My best image of the weekend (and we have still a day to go).

Indeed a great image!
You guys must have had tons of fun there, but for once I am not envious since I am also having a very good time.
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: Jakov Minić on September 25, 2016, 17:41:38
Chris nailed it! His circular sunflower is magical, as is Bjørn's :)
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew stikes again
Post by: Danulon on September 25, 2016, 17:44:13
Chipping time!
Erik is going to chip 3 of my old lenses;
Nikkor-OC 35/2.0 AI-d (1973)
Nikkor-HC 85/1.8 AI-d (1973)
Nikko-QC 135/3.5 AI-d (1975)
All in pretty good shape

Hi Chris, what is that tool on the first pic? ;-)

Nice to having seen you again, guys.

Still waiting for my flight back.
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: Jakov Minić on September 25, 2016, 17:45:24
The Nikongear pile-up.



Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: Danulon on September 25, 2016, 17:48:03
The Nikongear pile-up.

I see. That's a special purpose application of your 10.5 - necessary whenever the Crew and part of their gear meet up! ;-)
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: Jakov Minić on September 25, 2016, 18:14:15

Thanks Günther!

The pile-up consisted of many lenses including two specimens of the one that I will NOT buy.

Shortly afterwards I attacked the sunflower with a Heligon :)

Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: Jakov Minić on September 25, 2016, 18:51:29
Then the Heligon wasn't close enough  ::)
A sunflower a 45P and a PN-1.
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: Andrea B. on September 26, 2016, 09:03:22
Chris that photo with the sunstar is the Italian Renaissance DaVinci version of a sunflower portrait/painting. Very cool!

Bjørn has captured the Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds version of a sunflower. Lucy approves!

Jakov's Heligon Sunflower receives my Should-Be-In-Nat-Geo award. Intriguing!
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: Jan Anne on September 26, 2016, 17:02:26
So, here are the corrected images of Bjørn and Erik using the Irix 11mm f/4.

As I was so smart to forgot to bring my Metabones Canon EF to Sony FE adapter I had to try the D810 from the Irix guys, sadly I can't process the images at the moment but it was clear there was some easily correctable barrel distortion. In comparison the Voigtlander 10/5.6 E had a lot less distortion, will show image later.

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5729/29829315772_34267587bb_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8059/29649625340_7fb41a1158_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: Jan Anne on September 26, 2016, 17:10:51
Another new lens was the Zeiss Loxia 85mm f/2.4 for the Sony EF mount. Handling, build quality, smooth focus, click and click less aperture ring are the same as with the other lenses in the Loxia lineup so pretty much as good as it gets.

Here's the full lineup behind glass, from left to right: 21/2.8, 35/2, 50/2 and 85/2.4
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8353/29860268491_876d0d7d31_o.jpg)

A rather blurry image with 85 focused at infinity
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5190/29829331502_a9f5318b50_o.jpg)

And one focussed at the minimal focus distance of 0.8 meter
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8563/29860270701_ce68f8541e_o.jpg)

And finally a test shot with a provided a7R, pretty impressive but the nice boke quickly evaporates at a little more range due to the rather slow f/2.4 aperture
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5263/29316318614_369b2c38ff_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: Erik Lund on September 26, 2016, 19:17:30
First a big thank you to all who showed up in connection with Photokina ! ;) and especially to our two hosts who opened up their homes! Thanks ;) We had great fun and Bjørn and I made it safely to the airport :)

The Irix 11mm and 15mm lenses where better than expected so whatch out for those!

The old Zeiss factory has definitely tuned into the marked over the last years - Most impressive.

For sure hope that Nikon will deliver something extraordinary  in 2017 for their anniversary,,,
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: ColinM on September 26, 2016, 19:42:54
Testing the 85 at different apertures.

Chris, never mind the shots of Jakov or the window, that bottle is definitely more than half empty :(
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: chris dees on September 26, 2016, 20:55:10
Chris, never mind the shots of Jakov or the window, that bottle is definitely more than half empty :(

Colin, it took us not too long to empty it.
Laphroaigh seems to be the standerd for the crew, I just had to follow them. ;)
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: Jan Anne on September 26, 2016, 21:00:26
Voigtlander had a prototype 65mm f/2 Macro Apo-Lanthar FE on display which I could play with but not shoot.

The lens felt great, nice metal build and the front element was deep inside the body so a hood shouldn't be needed. The RGB rings where also present to mark it as a Apochromatically corrected lens jus like its bigger brother we already like so much ;D

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5681/29654207250_7d99cabe90_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8730/29654210760_95881b204d_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: Jan Anne on September 26, 2016, 21:12:28
 ::)
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: Jan Anne on September 26, 2016, 21:28:25
The lens that impressed me most was the Voigtlander 10mm f/5.6 in Sony E mount, like my 15/4.5E it's diminutive size and low weight make it a perfect lens for the small Sony A7 series but instead offers a whopping 130 degrees which is wiiiiiiiiiiide. The most amazing thing is that there seems to be very little distortion, way less than the Irix 11mm lens we also tried. When catching up with Erik he said the same thing of the Leica M version he tried on his M9.

Here's the view at 10mm on my Sony a7RII
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5511/29865430681_a47680afee_o.jpg)

And a shot of light the beams which show very little distortion
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5535/29865428091_c97219239e_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: aerobat on September 26, 2016, 22:20:25
Thanks Jan Anne, Will the 65mm f/2 Macro Apo-Lanthar also be available in Nikon F mount? Did they say anything about date of market intro?
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: Jan Anne on September 26, 2016, 22:27:27
Thanks Jan Anne, Will the 65mm f/2 Macro Apo-Lanthar also be available in Nikon F mount? Did they say anything about date of market intro?
Nope, it's a full frame mirrorless design so won't fit on any DSLR.

Shipping is planned for "somewhere" in 2017.
Title: Re: Photokina 2016 the intrepid crew strikes again
Post by: aerobat on September 26, 2016, 22:32:29
Thanks Jan Anne - this just saved me some money  ;)