NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Jan Anne on September 14, 2016, 00:35:48
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As mentioned elsewhere the crew will be at Photokina on Friday the 21st.
So what should we check and report on here at NG??
Of course we will visit the Nikon booth and check the new 105/1.4 and whatever will be introduced in the coming week or so. Personally I'm hoping for a Df MKII and a Nikon FX mirrorless camera with some nice small but fast primes (preferably in the Sony FE mount ;) ).
Besides the lack of rumours or announcements from Nikon self there plenty of lenses to check out.
- Samyang 14/2.4
http://nikonrumors.com/2016/09/12/samyang-starts-a-new-line-of-premium-lenses-with-the-14mm-f2-4-and-85mm-f1-2.aspx/
- Zeiss Milvus 2.8/15, 2.8/18 and 2/135 lenses
http://nikonrumors.com/2016/09/08/zeiss-milvus-2-815-2-818-and-2135-lenses-for-nikon-f-mount-announced.aspx/
- Irex 15/2.4 and 11/4
For my Sony a7 platform I'll check on these announcements / rumours
- Venus Optics 15/2, because I like ultra wide and fast:
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/venus-optics-unveil-worlds-fastest-15mm-lens-sony-full-frame-e-mount-camera/
- The Voigtlander 10mm and 12mm E lenses
- Rumored new Zeiss Loxia or Batis lens
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/zeiss-teases-new-fe-lens-launch/
- The Tokina 20/2
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/tokina-officially-announced-new-firin-20mm-f2-0-full-frame-e-mount-lens/
- New Sony GM 85/1.4
- Sony Zeiss 50/1.4
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/lensrentals-tests-new-zeiss-50mm-fe-lens-sharper-center-zeiss-otus/
- Samyang AF 14/2.8 FE
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/samyang-will-ship-new-14mm-f2-8-fe-autofocus-lens-september-699-euro/
- Sony 70-300
And when all goes to plan Sony should cinroduce the new a7MKIII and a9 but a certain earthquake might hav delayed those plans :-\
So, what is missing on this besides a visit to the Nikon, Sony, Zeiss, Tokina, Samyang and Voigtlander booths??
Maybe the new Canon M5 mirrorless APSC camera?
http://www.canonwatch.com/canon-eos-m5-specifications-images-leaked-24mp-dpaf-7fps/
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I'll also plan to be there on Friday, but the 23rd ...
The Key Mission cameras from Nikon have not garnered a lot of press, perhaps not remarkable as few if any has seen them. However, PK 2016 will rectify that lack of information, I hope.
Will visit Foolography to have a look at their latest GPS products.
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I'll take my 105/1.4E with me, so there's more time to check on that one. :)
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Please don't forget us mirrorless types please, Fuji and Olympus!
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We'll do our best to cater for everyone's needs and curiosity, Mike.
I'm going to have a look at the XT2 at least.
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Especially the new medium format system from Fujifilm...if it has surfaced.
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The rumour mills suggest that there may be an Olympus OMD E-M1 Mk II released, plus a 12-100mm f/4.0 PRO lens, a 25mm f/1.2 PRO lens, and a 30mm f/3.5 Macro lens.
Great to get your impressions of any of these (that is if any of these materialise!).
Ditto for any goodies from Nikon.
TIA
Either way folks, have an enjoyable visit and don't drink more beers/red than I would! 8)
Please don't forget us mirrorless types please, Fuji and Olympus!
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I'll also plan to be there on Friday, but the 23rd ...
It was one of those days yesterday, also dropped my precious Norway coffee mug I bought on the Lofoten airport the last time we were there :'( :'(
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Thank you Bjorn, having only had my X-T2 for a few days, I'm very impressed, the speed of it is quite amazing!
Anthony and I went to Fujifilm event in a very small camera shop, the Fuji event turned out to be the man in the Fujifilm polo shirt!
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Mike: perhaps you should join force with Anthony and the two of you make a write-up of the experiences with this system?
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Bjorn, I would but I am notoriously bad at writing write ups! But give me a few days and you can see some of my ramblings.
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Lean ever so slightly on Anthony .... he should have the required writing experience ....
Am sure many would appreciate a heads-up report on this new model.
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Mike: perhaps you should join force with Anthony and the two of you make a write-up of the experiences with this system?
Vade retro!
I am almost quite more or less perfectly satisfied with my X-T1, why in the world tempt me?
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The Zeiss teaser was for the Loxia 85/2.4 FE for the a7 series:
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-first-images-new-loxia-85mm-f2-4-lens/
Interesting little lens with smooth manual focus, click or clickless aperture ring, CPU, all metal, etc.
The cool thing about this recent tsunami of new lenses for the Sony FE mount is that when Nikon does come out with an FX mirrorless camera these lenses will be available very shortly after introduction whereas we Sony users had to wait years for a mature lens line up.
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The Zeiss teaser was for the Loxia 85/2.4 FE for the a7 series:
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-first-images-new-loxia-85mm-f2-4-lens/
Interesting little lens with smooth manual focus, click or clickless aperture ring, CPU, all metal, etc.
The cool thing about this recent tsunami of new lenses for the Sony FE mount is that when Nikon does come out with an FX mirrorless camera these lenses will be available very shortly after introduction whereas we Sony users had to wait years for a mature lens line up.
This article by Thom Hogan may be of interest, regarding lens mounts and licensing, http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/sony-made-the-right-decisio.html (http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/sony-made-the-right-decisio.html)
If Nikon does present an FX mirrorless at Photokina, questions about third party support may be worth asking. There hasn't been very much rumours about Nikon and Photokina, so perhaps they have a real secret to share this time. ;)
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The Zeiss teaser was for the Loxia 85/2.4 FE for the a7 series:
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-first-images-new-loxia-85mm-f2-4-lens/
A useful addition to the Loxia series. The aperture is a little on the slow side, the AIS 85/2 is the same size lens but half a stop faster. But it's still half a stop faster than f/2.8 which is fine for most purposes, especially if fully usable wide open. The entrance pupil is the same as a 50/1.4 lens so is fast enough to provide some background separation.
It would be nice if it focused a bit closer than 0.8m like most 85mm lenses - I'm not looking for macro here but some close focus ability is very useful with this focal length.
A 135/3.4 would round out this set nicely.
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I received an invite for the launch of the Canon M5. You may wish to check it out.
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I received an invite for the launch of the Canon M5. You may wish to check it out.
Followed those rumors closely as a better host for my Canon 100-400 MKII, also my Voigtlander 125/2.5 is in Canon EF mount.
The Canon EF to M adapter is only 100 euros or so the M5 can easily be adapted for these lenses :)
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Followed those rumors closely as a better host for my Canon 100-400 MKII, also my Voigtlander 125/2.5 is in Canon EF mount.
The Canon EF to M adapter is only 100 euros or so the M5 can easily be adapted for these lenses :)
My dealer in Norway sent a mail with an introductory offer, that includes the EF to EF-M adapter, so that's something to look out for.
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Has anybody seen the Sigma 500mm f4, this model is rumoured to be announced at Photokina.
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It seems that Nikon is waiting for 2017. Just some new actioncams...
Harald
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I like to see and feel the new Hasselblad Mirrorless Medium (M&M) format camera, so I will be there in 23rd too.
If a Fuji M&M should also surface I will be there, otherwise I like to stay away from that place .... too tempting.
Has someone reserved some space for Nikongear People in a BRAUHAUS???
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Frank, the general idea is that we meet for lunch at the food court for some currywurst and beer.
The crew has no dinner plans for Friday evening other than eating somewhere enroute our two hour drive back home to the NL, so we usually wing it and let faith surprise us ;D
Two years ago we somehow stumbled on a castle where a medieval meal was served, before we realised what was going on maids served us roasted wild boar and wine :o :o
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I hope Sigma has the New 12-24 for trying out. The only new one I'm interested in.
So far Nikon has nothing interesting to show, we can skip their stand.
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So far Nikon has nothing interesting to show, we can skip their stand.
Same for Sony, they only announced the a99 MkII DSLR today:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/5855300360/sony-announces-42mp-a99-mark-ii-with-5-axis-stabilization
If I wanted a proper DSLR I would still have a Nikon DSLR 8)
I was expecting an epic Photokina this year but so far things turned out pretty lame camera wise :-\ :-\
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Well, 42MP at 12 fps with continuous AF is quite impressive. However, I don't like EVFs so this doesn't work for me. And I would not be able to deal with that amount of data but it shows that you can have high speed and high resolution in one package.
Also it does a full sensor read 4K video. This is a first in a 35mm full frame (not super 35) camera as far as I know, or at least in the consumer price class.
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And what about this:
https://www.nikonusa.com/en/about-nikon/press-room/press-release/ist8rz3w/What%27s-Your-Mission%3A-Experience-the-Captivating-Journey-of-Discovering%2C-Fulfilling-and-Sharing-Your-Life%27s-Missions-with-Nikon%27s-New-Line-of-KeyMission-Cameras.html
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To me the Keymission 360 seems very interesting. I often photograph events and I'm looking into doing video in some situations. I think 360 video of a precession, carnival or dance floor would create an interesting feeling of immersion and being there if shot in 360.
I would be interested in at least finding out about the technology and what kind of software exists to edit and view the content.
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Alpha99 Mk II...it is surprising that Sony STILL appears to continue its DSLR-style line. :o :o :o
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Mongo is with John also in finding out about the Sigma 500 f4 FL said to be 40% less expensive than the Nikon equivalent.
J. A. - Please also check if their are any free lunches of any description for Mongo.... ;D
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I was expecting an epic Photokina this year but so far things turned out pretty lame camera wise :-\ :-\
I agree, pretty boring. Works for me ( :) ), I would like to take a couple of trips this year and early next so no GAS. Size, weight and cost are considerations with the 105 1.4 but that one is exciting. Will buy at some point. A fast 135mm must be out there some where in the future and of course there is still a Df2 possible next year. Might give the Samyang a try.
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Well I'm excited to go and see all the new stuff at Nikon ;D
Just see the booth and what they have decided to set up is going to be great fun! Looking forward ;D
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I agree, pretty boring. Works for me ( :) ), I would like to take a couple of trips this year and early next so no GAS.
Same here ;D
Please be aware that Sony is known to announce big things between the big photography fairs to get full media exposure so the a7(R)III or a9 might still be announced in a few months. The a99II is a nice teaser of which specs are coming to the mirrorless lineup (like 42MP at 12fps instead of the 5).
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First thing for me is Leica's Photo exhibition.
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Same here ;D
Please be aware that Sony is known to announce big things between the big photography fairs to get full media exposure so the a7(R)III or a9 might still be announced in a few months. The a99II is a nice teaser of which specs are coming to the mirrorless lineup (like 42MP at 12fps instead of the 5).
JA, thanks for the heads up ;) ....but after 10 months of shooting the a7II I am just not as comfortable with the UI, probably just too old, as I am with my Nikons or even the EM-1. I will obviously watch Sony. At the moment the a7II and Df are most often used for fun but the D750, Df and D3s get used when I really need to get the shot. I plan on shooting even more active events this year. For trips I will take the a7II, fewer lenses, and continue to take the Df and a couple of lenses. Funny , there has been a glut of used a7XX for sale , locally, recently. Some of that may be the problems with getting lenses here.
All the best . Any air rifle events on your schedule?
Tom
ps the slow write speeds and delays associated with taking shots are a pain >:(
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Alpha99 Mk II...it is surprising that Sony STILL appears to continue its DSLR-style line. :o :o :o
It would appear that Sony thinks SLT has its own advantages, with the dedicated AF sensor which produces continuous data without "dead time" because of either mirror blackout (as in a DSLR) or a need to stop collecting main image sensor embedded PDAF data during the exposure (I assume there is some dead time here as well). The camera's computer gets continuous data regarding the phase difference and can adjust focus on the lens accordingly. I don't know how well the system works (as the EVF puts me off) but it has some theoretical advantages. Sony has some users who have A mount lenses and occasionally they put out new products in the lineup as well. The A99 II seems very well specified and if the buffer is sizeable enough, it could be a successful action camera.
The fact that the semitransparent mirror in an SLT camera isn't moving gives stability to the AF sensor data (I assume it can be quite challenging to stabilize the mirrors quickly after exposure has been taken, before solid AF data can be again read from the dedicated PDAF sensor in a DSLR. In principle there should be less jitter in the focus in the Sony system, at least when coupled with lenses that have ultrasonic motors (A mount lens line still has a lot of lenses that are focused by the motor in the camera body, which is a less precise method of controlling focus). If they have modern motors and AF sensor technology, then it becomes a matter of devising the best algorithms to optimize the system so that the dedicated PDAF and main sensor phase and contrast data are combined to get optimal focus in various situations.
42MP at 8fps is quite impressive (with viewfinder); the 12 fps is AFAIK without live viewfinder image, thus limited to special situations where reframing is not necessary during the sequence. 4K full sensor readout is also impressive in a full frame camera. It is interesting to see if this picks up users. I'm happy to see different technologies compete with each other for specialist applications.
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It would appear that Sony thinks SLT has its own advantages, with the dedicated AF sensor which produces continuous data without "dead time" because of either mirror blackout (as in a DSLR) or a need to stop collecting main image sensor embedded PDAF data during the exposure (I assume there is some dead time here as well). The camera's computer gets continuous data regarding the phase difference and can adjust focus on the lens accordingly. I don't know how well the system works (as the EVF puts me off) but it has some theoretical advantages. Sony has some users who have A mount lenses and occasionally they put out new products in the lineup as well. The A99 II seems very well specified and if the buffer is sizeable enough, it could be a successful action camera.
The fact that the semitransparent mirror in an SLT camera isn't moving gives stability to the AF sensor data (I assume it can be quite challenging to stabilize the mirrors quickly after exposure has been taken, before solid AF data can be again read from the dedicated PDAF sensor in a DSLR. In principle there should be less jitter in the focus in the Sony system, at least when coupled with lenses that have ultrasonic motors (A mount lens line still has a lot of lenses that are focused by the motor in the camera body, which is a less precise method of controlling focus). If they have modern motors and AF sensor technology, then it becomes a matter of devising the best algorithms to optimize the system so that the dedicated PDAF and main sensor phase and contrast data are combined to get optimal focus in various situations.
42MP at 8fps is quite impressive (with viewfinder); the 12 fps is AFAIK without live viewfinder image, thus limited to special situations where reframing is not necessary during the sequence. 4K full sensor readout is also impressive in a full frame camera. It is interesting to see if this picks up users. I'm happy to see different technologies compete with each other for specialist applications.
Could a fixed mirror also improve the situation regarding fine tune of the AF on a DSLR? I suppose it could, since there would be less "jitter" as you say. I think the hybrid AF system could be especially good for very high resolution cameras 36/42/50mp and greater on full frame.
I think it's good that Sony keeps updating the native A mount cameras, as it is a great service to those invested in Sony/Minolta A mount lenses.
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To me, the SLT system seems rather to be a temporary system. Putting an oblique half mirror in the light path is not a good idea.
I see the brighter future in Canon's system using the dual pixel technology. Right now, the sensor is obscured by the mechanical shutter which interrupts the continuous tracking of the subject, and the electronic shutter comes with the jello effect. But Canon already established their own global shutter technology which will be combined with the dual-pixel technology sooner or later.
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To me, the SLT system seems rather to be a temporary system. Putting an oblique half mirror in the light path is not a good idea.
I see the brighter future in Canon's system using the dual pixel technology. Right now, the sensor is obscured by the mechanical shutter which interrupts the continuous tracking of the subject, and the electronic shutter comes with the jello effect. But Canon already established their own global shutter technology which will be combined with the dual-pixel technology sooner or later.
The term "temporary" applies to all mirror solutions in the long run, be they SLT or DSLR. They do however take care of and preserve the investments people have in lenses, which is good.
I use the Sony Zeiss 135/1.8 Sonnar A mount DSLR lens with an adapter on my mirrorless Sony. That adapter employs a transparent mirror, i.e. the SLT technology, and I have no complaints. I see no degradation of image quality, and I thus gained access to a splendid used lens.
The adapter in question is the Sony LA-EA4. Such adapters, with SLT technology may come to play a role when Nikon makes an FX mirrorless cameras, and people want access to Nikon's huge catalogue of (D)SLR lenses on mirrorless.
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The global shutter reduces dynamic range reportedly by approximately 1 stop (in Canon's C700). Canon isn't offering EF mount with the global shutter version and there isn't any AF. It is a little surprising they aren't offering AF on it yet as action sequences would be an interesting application for it.
I agree dual pixel AF seems very promising, and an elegant solution to the live view and video AF problem. However, how it performs relative to SLT in photography and video, and SLR systems in still photography will need to be evaluated as the technology progresses. For me these are only theoretical options since I prefer to see and frame the subject optically. The D5 is fast enough (frame rate wise) and the autofocus tracking is so good I can safely shoot at f/1.4 without worrying about focus, even when photographing moving subjects in low light. The out of focus percentages are really surprisingly low. However, if the pixel density is increased to 36MP or 42MP or higher, I have no doubt the slightly but perceptably out of focus rate would increase. However it's not like approaching subject tracking produces 100% in focus results at f/1.4 using any currently available technology. The fact that people are reporting really low out of focus rates on action subjects (i.e. single digit percentages on birds in flight) with the higher pixel density D500 is very promising. For me the optical viewfinder is worth the minor inconvenience of occasional fine tuning work.
All of us, and even this planet are temporary.
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The SLT-style adapter is an interesting technological solution but the ergonomics is not like using the lens on a native mount camera. Thus I see the use of adapters as a short term transition solution only, for those who want to transition between systems.
How does the semitransparent mirror react to dust? Is it user cleanable, and if not, how is Sony service handling replacement or cleaning requests? Also, if somehow the main sensor gets a dust or hair on it, what is the solution in an SLT camera? This may be a glitch which prevents its widespread use. Canon and Nikon have had pellicle mirrors in the past and they abandoned them.
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Yep, the global shutter is still not there in terms of DR, which makes it a tool to be used only when absolutely required by other circumstances.
I do hope we and the planet have some longevity, at least. :) Cameras and things are easier to replace...
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DSLR puts nothing in the light path while the actual image is being taken. I take it granted that the sensor side of the chamber in an SLT camera is sealed with the half mirror and some sort of gasket around it. But any possible particle falling out of the shutter mechanism would be impossible to clean on the user side.
I finally had a chance to try Fuji XT-2 at a retailer and found its EVF too contrasty to my eye. It is actually as contrasty as that of Panaonic which I got rid of for the very reason. So far, Olympus (at least E-M5 MkII) is the only camera with EVF that doesn't strain my eyes.
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DSLR puts nothing in the light path while the actual image is being taken. I take it granted that the sensor side of the chamber in an SLT camera is sealed with the half mirror and some sort of gasket around it. But any possible particle falling out of the shutter mechanism would be impossible to clean on the user side.
I finally had a chance to try Fuji XT-2 at a retailer and found its EVF too contrasty to my eye. It is actually as contrasty as that of Panaonic which I got rid of for the very reason. So far, Olympus (at least E-M5 MkII) is the only camera with EVF that doesn't strain my eyes.
I suppose that cleaning the sensor on an A99 II may cost something and require a visit to a repair shop, assuming that temprarilyvrepkacingvthe mirror requires a recalibration?
Too bad Fuji didn't work out for you, the Fuji users seem to love it. You seem to have exactly the opposite problem of what I have with finders. The DSLR finder can't deliver enough contrast or in many cases not enough light for me to reliably do manual focus, so no fun.
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I finally had a chance to try Fuji XT-2 at a retailer and found its EVF too contrasty to my eye. It is actually as contrasty as that of Panaonic which I got rid of for the very reason. So far, Olympus (at least E-M5 MkII) is the only camera with EVF that doesn't strain my eyes.
Yeah...Why don't they have user adjustable contrast controls on the EVFs?
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Yeah...Why don't they have user adjustable contrast controls on the EVFs?
The most mirrorless cameras let the user adjust the contrast and the brightness of both LCD and EVF. I usually set both to the lowest value, but the EVF was still too bright to my eyes. I cut a piece of three-stop ND gel and inserted under the eyepiece rubber to reduce the brightness. But that made the EVF difficult to see when backlit by the sun. :(
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As said above, I was pretty bored with the offerings but yesterday my wife received a report (from my buddy (?), the Olympus distributor) on the Olympus Pro 25 f1.2 so the Nikon 105 f1.4 may create a family feud .... lol
These days there are just too many choices and lens manufacturers (old and new) are coming out of the woodwork ;)
Tom
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Earlier I had asked that the mirrorless users among us not be forgotten in any reports, boy did that happen in spades. Fuji certainly stole the thunder this time, did anyone get a look at this new marvel?
I always understood that 6 * 6 cm was "medium format" ?
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MikeG:
Film: 45x60 qmm .... 170x60 qmm
Digital: 45x30 qmm ... 54x40 qmm
A diversity of formats
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I always understood that 6 * 6 cm was "medium format" ?
....or a 645 camera wth a mind operated revolving back. :)
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Ahhhh the good old Pentax 6x7 ;) now there was a lot of area on those negatives ;)
For sure we will have a good look and feel of the mighty new MF Fuji :)
I have started the journey towards fist stop; Jakov in The Hague with D810 and Leica M9 eager to see how new lenses for those two perform :)
There are also news for Studio flash equipment and last but not least all the booth babes 😜😎
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Did anyone have a look at the Laowa 24mm f/14 2x macro lens?
http://photorumors.com/2016/09/22/i-bet-you-have-not-seen-a-lens-like-this-laowa-24mm-f14-macro-lens/ (http://photorumors.com/2016/09/22/i-bet-you-have-not-seen-a-lens-like-this-laowa-24mm-f14-macro-lens/)
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Did anyone have a look at the Laowa 24mm f/14 2x macro lens?
http://photorumors.com/2016/09/22/i-bet-you-have-not-seen-a-lens-like-this-laowa-24mm-f14-macro-lens/ (http://photorumors.com/2016/09/22/i-bet-you-have-not-seen-a-lens-like-this-laowa-24mm-f14-macro-lens/)
Thanks for the note. The lenses of this kind have been made as special orders and cost around 1500-2000 USD:
http://www.koheisha.net/microwidelenz/4ktaioumusinomelens/4ktaioumusinomelens01.html
I wonder if the Laowa lens can be stuck into the water?
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Thanks for the note. The lenses of this kind have been made as special orders and cost around 1500-2000 USD:
http://www.koheisha.net/microwidelenz/4ktaioumusinomelens/4ktaioumusinomelens01.html
I wonder if the Laowa lens can be stuck into the water?
The Laowa looks lighter. I have a setup with a microscope lens on an adapter which fits in front of a 150mm lens. It's a bit unwieldy.
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Yes, it looks lighter and not front-heavy.
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My daughter is still sick at home. Cannot make it today. Maybe on Sunday.
I want a FUJI M&M anyway. Not sure I will want to afford it. Very tempting as anything Fuji.
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The Irix 11mm f4, great metal built, lockable focus, nice click at infinity.
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Nice, Jan. But the images are displayed upside down... The downloaded images are displayed properly. :o :o :o
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Akira, and I just thought JA had turned his Sony up side down, used the LCD to get some different angles/perspective ala Jakov ;)
Tom
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Tom, Jan would do that. But strangely the default image browser of Win10 displays the image properly. I guess MS doesn't understand the sense of humor?
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Tom, Jan would do that. But strangely the default image browser of Win10 displays the image properly. I guess MS doesn't understand the sense of humor?
Not so cheeky today, must be a bug with my new iPhone 7 Plus :o
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Not so cheeky today, must be a bug with my new iPhone 7 Plus :o
Hmm...I haven't heard of that bug yet. I wonder if the gravity sensor is mulfunctioning?
Then it is strange that the image is displayed in the image browser correctly...
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They also display upside down for me.
JA, any comment on the "quality" of the Irix?
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I,m assuming it is about 13.00hrs in cologne at present.
How about checking out the coffee and cake kiosk ;D
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Was this new ultra-wide lens - Laowa 12mm f2.8 Zero-D - featured at Photokina?
http://petapixel.com/2016/08/26/review-taking-zero-distortion-lowla-12mm-f2-8-spin/
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/lenses/laowa_12mm_f2-8.html
Interesting product.... first read about it in the current issue [Sep 2016] of the UK published N-Photo Magazine
thanks