NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: Frank Fremerey on June 22, 2016, 14:10:31
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Hasselblad introducing mirrorless medium format. now. live from Sweden!
50 MP
9000 US$
www.hasselblad.com
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I've watched the presentation istead of continuing my work on
law of the seas and how to protect and revive sea life by reducing
the human footoprint on land and water....
... so what have I learned?
It is lighter and smaller than the D810
It has the same sensor as the H6D
It will cost 7900 Euros plus VAT
It is the first really portable medium format digital
Seems to have inherited a lot of genes and genius from the
famous Fuji G series landscape cameras
Very affordable
3 native lenses available for Photokina. 90mm 30mm 67mm
plus an adapter to the 12 H type lenses.
very interesting. Much more interesting for my line of work than
the D5. Perfect as a digiback for my Sinar P2 or Cambo Actus.
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A digital back for all the large-format cameras still floating around in my storage bins - now, that would be a great idea.
Price is - well, what should I say - elevated. Yet not astronomically out of reach, though.
Will be interesting to follow future development, that's for sure.
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It is still expensive, like three times the A7rII, which is an equivalent camera and a known workhorse. And lenses, the A7rII takes all comers...almost. Unless I already had a bunch of related lenses, not sure why I would want this. Why would I? There should be a Nikon mirrorless that takes all my lenses, with an equivalent sensor, but Nikon is lagging.
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Sensor size is the interesting point as the existing large-format lenses reclaim more of their designated field coverage. One can only expect image quality of such a new camera to be impressive.
Had the Sonys been designed by engineers knowing anything about photography, I would have stuck to that existing line, though.
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Frankly. For my table top business I do not need any Hasselblad lenses.
As this nifty little beast is very portable I would choose to have one wide angle like the 30mm announced
for Photokina 2016 to shoot architecture while travelling.
On the road the Cambo Actus comes to mind connecting APO Digitars and Digarons to this back.
I guess this will outshoot any competition and win some high paying customers in the event business too.
Portraits of horses ... another high paying job type ...
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It is intriguing that Hasselblad/Fuji choose to use SD cards on this system. There must be an awful lot of data to shuffle around. I had expected at least one slot to be XQD.
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Only 38% more data compared to a D810 that can do 5fps?? Hasselblad claims 1.7 - 2.3 fps for the X1D.
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The 'new' lenses for the X1D,45 mm f/3.5 and 90 mm f/3.5, eerily reminds of the Xpan lens kit. The XPan lenses were a third stop slower, f/4, probably because they had to cover a slightly wider area, and could be very small in size because they lacked the built-in leaf shutter of the new lenses.
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In the interview on the launch event (you can watch it on youtube) the CEO of Hasselblad said that no Fuji technology is in the package. All is developed and build in Sweden. He claims to have very tight and friendly relatiuons with Fuji but not on this project. Also the Lenses he claims are designed by Hasselblad only manufactured in Japan by "Nirotu"??? if I did hear that right. I did not see a transcriptiion yet.
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"Hand-made in Sweden" and "Built in Germany" are business slogans. Reality tends to be different.
I think it very unlikely, at the asking price, that these cameras really are "hand-made in Sweden". Perhaps the final assembly from a delivered kit?
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The lenses are made by Nittoh in Japan, and are designed by Hasselblad in Sweden.
The two first focal lengths are 45mm and 90mm, and Hasselblad has promised a 30mm for Photokina in the autumn. It was remarked in the presentation from Göteborg, Sweden, that these are exactly the same focal lengths that were available for the Xpan, for those who knew their Hasselblad history.
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Apparently the newcomer shares a lot of thoughts with the previous XPan project.
I have still an XPan sitting in a cupboard somewhere with the dedicated lenses. It was a nice camera, capable of quality output, but with some idiosyncratic flaws.
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"Hand-made in Sweden" and "Built in Germany" are business slogans. Reality tends to be different.
I think it very unlikely, at the asking price, that these cameras really are "hand-made in Sweden". Perhaps the final assembly from a delivered kit?
It was said on the presentation that journalists could see the production line in Göteborg on appointment, and that some had done so this morning. Perhaps it will be possible to know more specifics in the course of time.
Anyway this camera is far easier to assemble than a DSLR, since there are fewer moving parts, no mirrors etc., so less adjustments needed. This was also commented on during the presentation, regarding the price point.
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The "Country of origin" product labelling is a legal requirement for export to many countries (import duties may depend on it). Even if only the final assembly of the X1D is done in Sweden, "made in Sweden" is the proper labelling. However the "handmade in Sweden" prominently engraved on the top plate seems a little more than just legally required.
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I'm rather skeptical with regard to "everything is in-house design / house made". The digital era has made the camera building business very capital intensive; 100% vertical integration became an impossible task; and Hasselbad is a rather small company. The aforementioned overstatement is probably there to wipe out the horrific "Sony rebadging era" memories; or not ?
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Good. We hear what we hear and believe what we want to believe.
45, 90, 30 then
it is better to see it in writing.
My verdict: This is a potentially VERY intersting product for me personally because the offerings I
received in this direction recently from Phase One and Sinar were much more expensive and or far less capable.
The Sinar Backs are limited to Mac ... more you need the Notebook from Apple to operate the Back.
The Phase one P65 is really really sweet when it comes to quality output and is Windows compatible but it is really
old now when it comes to electronics and still sold in the 10.000 Euro region.
So here comes a very transportable current technology medium format back sub 10.000 Euro
packaged into a small and lightweight body that is capable of doing events or Scheimpflug work in the field.
very tempting.
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The new Hasselblad will surely be a game changer, I mean, for Leica who just released SL.
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A digital back for all the large-format cameras still floating around in my storage bins - now, that would be a great idea.
The new camera has no mechanical shutter and it has no electronic shutter (as far as I can tell). The new 45 and 90mm lenses have built-in leaf shutters. If the camera has no electronic shutter, it will considerably limit the number of lenses which can be used.
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Then the Hasselblad X1D barely has moving parts, only the wheels and buttons to operate it. That should lower the assembly cost.
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With a short flange distance and no shutter or mirror in front, that big sensor is very exposed to dust when switching lenses. I guess it's also easy accessible to clean ...
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I share the skeptism.
My guess is the Research & Development is good old Fujifilm knowledge and effort, no matter where the metalwork is pressed and screwed together. The Hasselblad/Fuji association is a long standing one and Fuji have said that they have been working on mirrorless MF technology, so it is likely that this association has given rise to the new 'Blads.
Be that as it may, I for one hope that the new system does well. Its competitive influence just might possibly force down the price of the D5 and EOS 1Ds a little if the uptake of the 'Blads by studio photographers is significant.
Also nice to see mirrorless technology being adopted by the larger formats.
I'm rather skeptical with regard to "everything is in-house design / house made". The digital era has made the camera building business very capital intensive; 100% vertical integration became an impossible task; and Hasselbad is a rather small company. The aforementioned overstatement is probably there to wipe out the horrific "Sony rebadging era" memories; or not ?
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Would rather wait for the Sony A7r III than jump on a $9,000 Hassy, when the Sony will probably be just as good, or better, for less than half the price.
The new Sony will also likely have 4K video, which the Hassy doesn't, which is a kick-in-the-balls at a $9000 price point for a camera, in this day and age.
Not to mention more lens choices with a Sony ...
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With a short flange distance and no shutter or mirror in front, that big sensor is very exposed to dust when switching lenses. I guess it's also easy accessible to clean ...
I get dust on my sensor through the monorail bellows. Cleaning is necessary.
Also interesting how the camera will work conjunction with the LF shutters mechanical and electronical.
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First quick crash review by Matt Granger https://youtu.be/gGnoNq4d4Mk
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Ming Thein, who recently switched to the Hasselblad system and has become a rep for them, reports that he understands that Hasselblad is working on an electronic shutter in firmware that would open up the X1D-50c system to a plethora of lenses, including the Otus series from Zeiss, etc. That would interest me. However, my guess is the Sony will release a system this fall that will be “close enough” at around $4k, and, who knows, Nikon might just surprise us with... something.
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Central shutter lenses make this interesting to those who use flash outdoors, in particular (1/2000s sync at full output, so a smaller and lighter flash system can be used in sunlight).
The camera and lenses are compact so it could be used as a travel camera with image quality. I suppose it is a bit like the modern equivalent of a Mamiya 7.
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Then the Hasselblad X1D barely has moving parts, only the wheels and buttons to operate it. That should lower the assembly cost.
Quite possibly - as well as lowering inventory costs. But why is that a good thing for consumers, unless it translates to a lower price? The alternative is that it translates to higher profit for the manufacturer; which do you think is more likely?
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This probably will be a niche camera unless it can appeal, and sell, to a lot of non-studio photographers. In itself the limited market will keep price up.
As to the fewer moving things inside the camera, that possibly could mean higher reliability in use? Time will show.
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It was interesting that HB chose not to use Fuji lenses since Fuji makes the HC line of lenses. Image quality will be exactly the same as the H5D-H6D 50c if the lenses are as good (no reason they shouldn't be).
However, this is such a small market internationally I really must question whether Fuji, Sony or Nikon truly have any interest in going there with their own MF camera. I would imagine it would take years to recoup R&D costs.
I must say I'm impressed with the packaging of the X1D. Very portable compared to my Leica S!
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Would rather wait for the Sony A7r III than jump on a $9,000 Hassy, when the Sony will probably be just as good, or better, for less than half the price.
The new Sony will also likely have 4K video, which the Hassy doesn't, which is a kick-in-the-balls at a $9000 price point for a camera, in this day and age.
Not to mention more lens choices with a Sony ...
I think everybody agrees that Sony makes excellent sensors, but they simply (still) don't know how to make a camera for photographers.
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How true.
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I think everybody agrees that Sony makes excellent sensors, but they simply (still) don't know how to make a camera for photographers.
Well, that's why I have a D810 not an A7rII.
That said, Sony's improvement in their cameras is evolving at nano-speed, so there's no telling what the next iteration in their FF mirrorless is going to look/perform like.
That is what makes innovation so cool ...
However, given the utter dominance of the new AF system by Nikon, I am most excited to see what the D900 looks/performs like, sensor-wise, and full-function-wise.
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The specification says that the hotshoe is "Nikon compatible". :D
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FUJI just announced a very similar ystem - and WITH electronic shutter built in!!
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FUJI just announced a very similar ystem - and WITH electronic shutter built in!!
Do you mean the Fujifilm X-T2? If so, that is a 24 Mpx sensor, when what I am looking for is at least a 50 Mpx sensor, etc.
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FUJI just announced a very similar ystem - and WITH electronic shutter built in!!
Link? I do not see it on fujifilm.com
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FUJI just announced a very similar ystem - and WITH electronic shutter built in!!
No such news found in Japan either...
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It is a rumour. The source is http://www.fujirumors.com/fujifilm-medium-format-more-affordable-than-hasselblad-x1d/ The existing deal between Hasselblad and Fuji for each to market the same camera gives the rumour plausibility.
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If they really take an XTrans 2 or 3, make it huge and affordable that will be a hard time for everybody in the industry, a new class of camera, like once the Canon 300D and the Nikon D70 in the DSLR-market
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If they really take an XTrans 2 or 3, make it huge and affordable that will be a hard time for everybody in the industry, a new class of camera, like once the Canon 300D and the Nikon D70 in the DSLR-market
I think the assumption is that this is a re-run of the Hasselblad H1 / Fuji GX645AF partnership: the internals and the lenses of the Fuji will be identical to the X1D.
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I think the assumption is that this is a re-run of the Hasselblad H1 / Fuji GX645AF partnership: the internals and the lenses of the Fuji will be identical to the X1D.
No, Hasselblad explicitly mentioned that for this X1D there was no coorperation at all with Fujifilm and they explicitly mentioned that the Hasselblad-designed lenses are made by Nittoh.
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Housing and Electronics and bayonet can be shared. We have seen this in Fuji-Nikons like the S2Pro S3Pro S5Pro.