NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: atpaula on June 18, 2016, 03:49:41
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My copy SN 275076 was left at Marty's Camera of Queens, New York for an AI conversion, 2 weeks ago after I got the AI kit from a guy in California.
When I returned there the other day guess what? The lens had disappeared!!!!!
I went to the police station to report it but the officer told me It was not a theft case, but a business case and I had to sue the guy.
I told I live in Brazil and heard "I'm sorry!!!".
The guy seemed genuinely upset by this episode and got me a much less than mint copy of a 16mm f/2.8 AIs, with the lame plastic cap from the AF model and a scratch on the front element coating.
His shop is such a mess and I'll regret until next century to have left the lens there.
I'm so pissed off because this lens has a special meaning to me. It was the first fisheye model I tried, some 35 years ago.
Who would imagine that I would lose such a gem in the very safe USA, a guy from such an unsafe place as Brazil.
Now there is a big hole in my beloved collection so I'll have to start a painful search for a good copy.
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Commiserations.
I would be watching the Ebay listings for a 16mm f/3.5 with the same SN 275076 as yours. Maybe all of us on this site should do so in order to lend you a hand. Got any friends in the area of this NY shop who could look in from time to time?
Pardon the pun at such a sad time, but this dealer sounds "fishy" to me.
Footnote: It would be a very good idea to post a warning about this shop on website's such as www.yelp.com to warn others of this bad behaviour from the shop.
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Since the shop [apparently] refused to take full responsibility for their mistake(crime???), it is important to let the word go forth to all who may listen. Yelp.com is a good place to start.
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register on all lists stolen equipment: http://photo.net/registry/search-one-manufacturer?manufacturer=Nikkor
https://photographers.ie/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Nikon-stolen-equipment.pdf
So if ever the lens enters an official Nikon repair facility it will be rerouted to you.
It is not wrong to write a classy review of that shop too...
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Good idea Frank - sorry, but I forgot about these links.
register on all lists stolen equipment: http://photo.net/registry/search-one-manufacturer?manufacturer=Nikkor
https://photographers.ie/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Nikon-stolen-equipment.pdf
So if ever the lens enters an official Nikon repair facility it will be rerouted to you.
It is not wrong to write a classy review of that shop too...
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I am very sorry to hear that you lost a lens by leaving it in the care of a camera shop. A place where you would expect things to not disappear!
I am also very upset to hear the shop owner replaces your lens with damaged goods. Personally I would not have accepted that solution, but instead would have insisted on a financial solution instead. Search ebay for a copy of the lens in about the same condition as the one you left there and have him reimburse you for the loss right there and then.
I know these 16mm f3,5 pre-Ai fish eyes are not easy to find, and their total production number is somewhere around 4500 lenses manufactured (and another 1500 for the optically slightly improved Ai version)
I do hope you will find a replacement for the lens. I know I really like my copy, and use it quite a bit.
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Thank you all for the simpathy and tips.
I'll report this case in those places.
I don´t have friends in NY that could go there for me.
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If anyone has one for sale or knows where to find one, please let me know.
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Sorry to hear that, Aguinaldo. :'(
I've found one on ebay, but its serial number was different.
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wow, that sucks :o :o :o
dangerous ::)
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You would not believe that:
After looking everywhere for a new copy of this lens I found one at B&H used section this weekend.
I bought it immediatelly.
As they don't ship used merchandise abroad, I told them to ship it to a friend's house, by the way, she sold me that fisheye 3 years ago.
Guess what: when the lens was delivered and she sent me the pics, I saw THAT WAS THE ROBBED LENS!!!!!!!!!!
It came back to the very person who sold it to me.
BELIEVE IT OR NOT!!!!!
Now I'm waiting for B&H's response for this imbroglio.
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Congrats, Aguinaldo!
If you can prove that the lens is the very one that was stolen, you shouldn't need to "buy" it again, I guess.
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They will have a hard time explaining away from that fact... Of course you should expect a full reimbursement of the purchase price. And an apology.
One does not "lose" the ownership of an item just because it has been stolen.
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Wow 8)
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Nice, that appears to be a happy ending. ;)
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Thank you Akira, Bjorn, Fons and John.
I've sent B&H the image of the repair invoice from the shop where they "lost"the lens, containing all mine and the lens data.
B&H is a serious company and will sort it out in a good way, I believe.
I think catching the thief would make me happier than getting the lens back.
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A happy ending to end the work week on.
Congratulation, Aguinaldo! Keep us update on what happens. This is quite interesting as I wonder how the various parties will handle this "sale".
Have a nice weekend everyone.
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Wow! Great news and a good story for the future! ;D
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What are they odds of rebuying your own stolen lens, congrats!!!
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You would not believe that:
After looking everywhere for a new copy of this lens I found one at B&H used section this weekend.
I bought it immediatelly.
As they don't ship used merchandise abroad, I told them to ship it to a friend's house, by the way, she sold me that fisheye 3 years ago.
Guess what: when the lens was delivered and she sent me the pics, I saw THAT WAS THE ROBBED LENS!!!!!!!!!!
It came back to the very person who sold it to me.
BELIEVE IT OR NOT!!!!!
Now I'm waiting for B&H's response for this imbroglio.
Wow. That will give a huge headace to the B&H PR division
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Wow. That will give a huge headace to the B&H PR division
Why?
Are you 100% sure that the second hand lenses you've bought are't stolen merchandise?
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They have Id from the seller and I think this thief that is going to have a big headache.
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I register every item with Nikon immediately (and unregister items I sell).
I know positively Nikon DOES have a list of all items claimed stolen.
I also know that friends of mine got back their Nikon items after serial numbers registered as stolen surfaced to Nikon's attention.
I can not be sure my practice is best practice or common practice. In that sense you are right JA. But I try to contribute my share to make stealing Nikkon items as unattractive as possible.
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you can get your money back if you prove that it was a stolen lens and implicate marty's. however, it may affect the lady who sold you because it was sold by a fence. talk to a lawyer, I am sure that you can scare marty's into paying you what you paid for for the lens. :o :o :o
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you can get your money back if you prove that it was a stolen lens and implicate marty's. however, it may affect the lady who sold you because it was sold by a fence. talk to a lawyer, I am sure that you can scare marty's into paying you what you paid for for the lens. :o :o :o
I sent them the proof, which was the Repair Invoice with the lens and my data.
I think B&H does not know if the person who sell or leave an item there to be sold is a thief or not. They have the identity of the person and will look after him, I believe.
Let's see their response on Monday.
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yes. go for it. justice has to be served :o :o :o
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Why?
Are you 100% sure that the second hand lenses you've bought are't stolen merchandise?
One cannot be. I once in good faith bought a second-hand 200/2 Nikkor AIS from a reputable dealer. Later it was shown to be stolen from the largest Norwegian newspaper by a summer intern. My information about the sales led to the thief being apprehended. I was able to keep the lens as the culprit was sentenced to pay full compensation for the stolen goods. The episode really was food for thought.
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Amazing find! Reminds me, I once had my Pentax 645 kit and Nikon FE2 with 20/3.5 lens stolen from our house. We were upstairs getting our then-young daughter ready for bed, we had left the sliding door downstairs open as it was a warm evening. The thief must have simply run in and out with my gear. I did the usual things, contacted the police and insurance. Also checked all the local used camera shops and looked on the local auction site, but found nothing.
A month or two later I checked the auction site again, and there it was, my Pentax 645. I recognised it straight away due to the RRS quick release plates and the 58-67mm step-up ring 75mm lens (to match the filters on my other lenses). It was late on a Friday afternoon, the police office handling my case was already closed, and the auction finished in the weekend. I tried contacting the auction site, but they could only withdraw the auction only if the police contacted them. What should I do? I thought of bidding so it wouldn't be sold to someone else, but I was worried the seller might be the thief and recognise me, so let it go. The police managed to retrieve it in the end, hardly worse for its adventure. Still had the film in it - they obviously knew nothing about the camera, they had even accidentally taken a picture - I have a rather blurry picture of their mantlepiece! Still have the camera, but never saw the FE2 again.
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What are they odds of rebuying your own stolen lens, congrats!!!
Not only that, but it returned to the same person who sold it to me 3 years ago and lives in a country different than mine!!!
Can't wait for tomorrow and see B&H response for that.
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What a strange story! I hope everything works out, Aguinaldo. I'm also anxious to hear how this works out. Just a note -- Monday is a holiday here in the States, so you may not hear from anyone until Tuesday.
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Not only that, but it returned to the same person who sold it to me 3 years ago and lives in a country different than mine!!!
Can't wait for tomorrow and see B&H response for that.
Almost sounds like faith. The lens letting you know that it is supposed to be in your hands.
Glad the story turned out for the better. Now I hope B&H let's you keep the lens but refunds and claims the financial loss from the person who sold the lens to them.
After reading this I had a very bad feeling leaving my camera bag in the car while i was in the hospital today.
I also had a 16mm f3,5 in there, although mine belonged to John once, and that's who I bought it from. His name is still engraved in the lens and cap, but he removed his phone number
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B&H gave a full refund today.
Case closed for me.
But my faith in God is stronger after this case.
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truth is indeed stranger than fiction
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Highly improbable story with a happy ending. Congratulations!
I´m still puzzle and in respect for B&H
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Highly improbable story with a happy ending. Congratulations!
I´m still puzzle and in respect for B&H
I respect that company even more after this.
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I respect that company even more after this.
That´s what I meant. :)
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Very nice it ended well!
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What an incredible turn of events...
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One time I had a thief smash the window in our car when we were out at Tylösand Chapell for 10 minutes. He stole the iPhones but was unaware of my 600/4VR lying in the baby carrier in the backseat with my D4 on it. I drew a sigh of relief.
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This is my friend's version about the episode, with one step further and a very personal and kind way to think of me as a photographer.
So here is a pretty cool story for you ...
You might call it coincidence, you might call it synchronicity, or you might call it miraculous.
I’d say it began a little more than five years ago.
Gary passed through this life on April 7, 2011. Without him, the business we built together would not succeed.
In addition to being an artful photography gallery, we planned to become an authorized Nikon dealer.
We also had a decent inventory of vintage Nikon camera bodies, some incredible NIKKOR glass, and other accessories meant for the more traditional photographer. After choosing the best species of every item that Gary selected so carefully (left to Charlie as his legacy to her), we were still burdened with way too much inventory, and so I took to liquidating on eBay.
In the early part of July in 2011, Aguinaldo Paula (the greatest living photographer) purchased an amazing piece of NIKKOR glass.
To my delight he continued to be a happy customer. Eventually we bypassed eBay, and I soon began to learn to detest Brazilian customs. [I’m pretty sure he beat me to that punch.]
Aguinaldo has a huge case of wanderlust, and so he and his beautiful wife Criss make their way to the U.S. annually. We have become very good friends, and even incorporated our families.
It has also become clear that Gary had some say in the fact that the best of his selected glass belongs in Aguinaldo’s hands. It was always meant to be, and here you will realize that truth along with us.
An especially important lens for Aguinaldo is the Nikon 16mm f/3.5 Fisheye-NIKKOR. It was the first fisheye model that he became acquainted with some thirty years ago. And because he is such a wonderful friend, he found romance in the fact that he acquired a version of this lens from Gary’s collection.
Every photographer knows that B&H Photo in NYC is comparable to paradise.
Earlier this summer, Aguinaldo and Criss made their annual trek to NYC. Aguinaldo carried his beloved Nikon 16mm f/3.5 Fisheye-NIKKOR along with him in order to have it converted to an Auto Indexing (Ai) lens.
He learned that while B&H does not make such conversions, they do offer referrals to a local shop for the Ai ring to be added.
Being as though the referral was made by B&H, he had every reason to trust that this smaller shop would provide excellent service.
Understand that this lens is in pristine condition, and still one of the older models of this variety – so not just a happy lens to use, but also very collectable and valuable. This “Mom & Pop” shop proved to be very good at one thing – making exceptional lenses disappear.
The police would not file a report; they suggested that Aguinaldo file suit (not really a good option because he was a guest in our country).
Then he approached the B&H Photo representative who presented the referral, and nothing. There was no help.
We were both devastated at the loss of this very special lens.
Aguinaldo surfed the interwebs trying to find a suitable replacement.
A little while after returning home, he found a listing for a used Nikon 16mm f/3.5 Fisheye-NIKKOR on B&H Photo’s “used” section and purchased it sight unseen.
He was already home in Brazil, so the lens was shipped to me.
After having been handling glass for a decade, I knew what to look for … I photographed the blades (no signs of grease), I knew to check for scratching, haze, and mold on the lens glass –so I photographed the perfection I saw. The rear element was clean, and the exterior showed no scratches or marks. It was as close to perfect as it could be.
I sent all of the photos to Aguinaldo. We were both excited!
Upon closer inspection of the photos, Aguinaldo discovered that the serial number on the lens was identical to the one he had purchased from me years ago, and to the one he trusted in the hands of the repair shop recommended by B&H.
What is the explanation for this? A lens once belonging to Gary, and passed from my hands to Aguinaldo’s ending up “stolen” and then returned to me to once again pass to Aguinaldo?
It gets better.
The lens was never converted during its separation from Aguinaldo.
He was now looking for the appropriate conversion ring. I had shipped a rather large box to Brazil with a few lenses and other photo accessories. It was returned because Brazilian customs sucks (ass).
I immediately took the tattered shipping box to our storage unit just to keep it out of the way.
I knew there was a gallon sized Zip-Loc bag full of conversion rings in that box.
This evening, I went to our storage unit, cut open that box, and found that every lens had been removed, along with several vintage exposure meters in their golden mint boxes. Also missing was the gallon-sized bag of Ai rings.
Coming home to let Aguinaldo know that I did not have a conversion ring for him did not make me so happy.
We had a little chat on facebook regarding some of the other missing items when I remembered I had a Longaberger basket filled with some little last minute trinkets from our move.
Guess what I found? There was an Ai ring, but it was not in its original packaging (which is why it ended up in the trinket basket – so it would not be scarred), and we were not sure if it was the correct part number.
A little more surfing the interwebs and we learned that it was just the Ai ring to perfect Aguinaldo’s beloved fisheye glass.
So, how is it that a lens shows up missing … is placed in my hands to place back into Aguinaldo’s?
How is it that the bastards at Brazilian customs would help themselves to some rather important items in quite a large carton, yet I have just the Ai ring (the ONLY Ai ring) here to complete the lens’s conversion?
I might say “Mind Blown!”. But I won’t. I have always believed that Gary wants only the world’s greatest living photographer, and great friend, to enjoy NIKKOR’s best glass.
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Apparently not only the "Mom & Pop" store couldn't be trusted, but also the local Customs.
As it all ended well, we have to rejoice in the fact that a beloved lens returned to its rightful owner. Perhaps there is some kind of justice in an otherwise lawless world?
If you ever visit these parts of the world, let us upgrade the lens with a CPU to make it even more perfect :D
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Apparently not only the "Mom & Pop" store couldn't be trusted, but also the local Customs.
As it all ended well, we have to rejoice in the fact that a beloved lens returned to its rightful owner. Perhaps there is some kind of justice in an otherwise lawless world?
If you ever visit these parts of the world, let us upgrade the lens with a CPU to make it even more perfect :D
Thank you for the offering Bjorn.
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Well, after that 16/3.5 story I need to tell two of my own: (a) how I first came to know this lens and (b) how I amassed three copies and sold one of them to someone half-way around the world
How I came to know the 16/3.5.
I had a D300 at the time (just graduated from the D80) and was frustrated with Nikon because they didn't have a compact 20mm FX equivalent prime lens for APS-C. I detest unwieldy lenses while mounted on the body and strapped across my torso. I longed for the FE2 + 20/2.8 days of a compact wide angle body+lens combo. So I decided to get a FX fisheye and de-fish it a bit to get back to ~20mm on FX fov with a compact lens. Heard about the 16/3.5 and went to work finding one on ebay. Finally found one after a couple of months looking for sale in the US and started bidding and got out-bid at the last second! Very disappointed. This particular copy had been converted from the non-AI using the correct conversion aperture ring and it had one of the mount screws missing, but otherwise was in optically great shape.
Well, another 6 months or so go by without success finding a 16/3.5 AI on ebay, bought a 16/2.8 AI-S and found that it did indeed operate well as a 20mm-equivalent after some de-fishing of the image, but I was not satisfied with the sharpness.
Then one day on the local Craigslist I see a 16/3.5 AI listed for sale - head over to the buyers place and what do you know he was the guy that out-bid me on ebay! The lens had the missing screw and was converted from non-AI with the correct conversion kit. He was not the fisheye-type so sold it to me at a very reasonable price. Came home and compare it to the 16/2.8 AIS and there was no contest. AI-S was gone.
How I Got Up To Three Copies 16/3.5 & Sold One
Since then I bought 3 copies of the true AI version (two locally and one on ebay) and sold the converted version to someone on FredMiranda. So for a year or so I had three copies sitting in my lens drawer. Why three? Well I take this lens out in the mountains quite a bit and it gets wet, cold, high altitude, dusty, etc. and there is always the fear of dropping it or the hard to find push on lens cap. I since found a push on lens cap brand new in the box too . . . . so I now have a spare.
But having three copies in the lens drawer ties up cash to be used for other Nikkors (or Leica or Zeiss) lenses, and one copy had not been used in over a year, so I decided to sell it. Someone on FM really wanted it, but he lived in Trento, Italy. Customs fees, VAT, shipping, insurance, etc. made it crazy expensive to ship it to him, so the deal floundered for a bit. But then I found a brand-new in the box CPL for my 600/6.5 ED-IF for a fantastic price at a small shop in some little town in Italy of all places. The person that wanted my 16/3.5 volunteered to drive to the shop and purchase it for me - all was good, except for trying to get it to him.
Well, enough time had gone by that we had planned a trip to Europe in June/July and Italy was on the agenda with a train change in Milano with a 10 minute window between trains. This guy offered to drive the hour to Milano, meet me at the train station and I deliver the lens to him. So he pays me up front for the lens a week ahead of time, I head to Europe with TWO 16/3.5's with me, manage to find him in the train station in Milan, talk to him for about 60 seconds, then have to run to catch the next train. The planets aligned - I sold my copy to a deserving photographer half-way around the world, side-stepped all the outrageous shipping costs and import fees, and met him briefly in person during the hand-off. Hopefully I can meet him again in person.
I also offered to buy it back from him if he doesn't get along with it . . . ;D
Sometimes things just work out . . .
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Well, after that 16/3.5 story I need to tell two of my own: (a) how I first came to know this lens and (b) how I amassed three copies and sold one of them to someone half-way around the world
How I came to know the 16/3.5.
I had a D300 at the time (just graduated from the D80) and was frustrated with Nikon because they didn't have a compact 20mm FX equivalent prime lens for APS-C. I detest unwieldy lenses while mounted on the body and strapped across my torso. I longed for the FE2 + 20/2.8 days of a compact wide angle body+lens combo. So I decided to get a FX fisheye and de-fish it a bit to get back to ~20mm on FX fov with a compact lens. Heard about the 16/3.5 and went to work finding one on ebay. Finally found one after a couple of months looking for sale in the US and started bidding and got out-bid at the last second! Very disappointed. This particular copy had been converted from the non-AI using the correct conversion aperture ring and it had one of the mount screws missing, but otherwise was in optically great shape.
Well, another 6 months or so go by without success finding a 16/3.5 AI on ebay, bought a 16/2.8 AI-S and found that it did indeed operate well as a 20mm-equivalent after some de-fishing of the image, but I was not satisfied with the sharpness.
Then one day on the local Craigslist I see a 16/3.5 AI listed for sale - head over to the buyers place and what do you know he was the guy that out-bid me on ebay! The lens had the missing screw and was converted from non-AI with the correct conversion kit. He was not the fisheye-type so sold it to me at a very reasonable price. Came home and compare it to the 16/2.8 AIS and there was no contest. AI-S was gone.
How I Got Up To Three Copies 16/3.5 & Sold One
Since then I bought 3 copies of the true AI version (two locally and one on ebay) and sold the converted version to someone on FredMiranda. So for a year or so I had three copies sitting in my lens drawer. Why three? Well I take this lens out in the mountains quite a bit and it gets wet, cold, high altitude, dusty, etc. and there is always the fear of dropping it or the hard to find push on lens cap. I since found a push on lens cap brand new in the box too . . . . so I now have a spare.
But having three copies in the lens drawer ties up cash to be used for other Nikkors (or Leica or Zeiss) lenses, and one copy had not been used in over a year, so I decided to sell it. Someone on FM really wanted it, but he lived in Trento, Italy. Customs fees, VAT, shipping, insurance, etc. made it crazy expensive to ship it to him, so the deal floundered for a bit. But then I found a brand-new in the box CPL for my 600/6.5 ED-IF for a fantastic price at a small shop in some little town in Italy of all places. The person that wanted my 16/3.5 volunteered to drive to the shop and purchase it for me - all was good, except for trying to get it to him.
Well, enough time had gone by that we had planned a trip to Europe in June/July and Italy was on the agenda with a train change in Milano with a 10 minute window between trains. This guy offered to drive the hour to Milano, meet me at the train station and I deliver the lens to him. So he pays me up front for the lens a week ahead of time, I head to Europe with TWO 16/3.5's with me, manage to find him in the train station in Milan, talk to him for about 60 seconds, then have to run to catch the next train. The planets aligned - I sold my copy to a deserving photographer half-way around the world, side-stepped all the outrageous shipping costs and import fees, and met him briefly in person during the hand-off. Hopefully I can meet him again in person.
I also offered to buy it back from him if he doesn't get along with it . . . ;D
Sometimes things just work out . . .
Awesome.....
I start to think that there is something mystic about this lens. I have three copies too. The one that was stolen/recovered, a recently copy purchased from Japan, non Ai, and a damaged one I bought 35 years ago.
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There is something mystical about this lens. I stumbled across its existence when I saw a 2.8 16mm lens listed for sale in a shop I browse online and decided to research a bit about that lens but discovered the 3.5 is considered to be superior. My interest piqued, I looked on Ebay and found some battered samples on offer but very rough copies. The next day I looked again and to my astonishment I saw what looked to be a pristine example for sale at a what seemed to be a very reasonable buy it now price. My fingers pushed all the right buttons for my first eBay purchase in two years and five days later it arrived. I eagerly opened the box and there it was... a lovely looking as new 16mm 3.5 Nikon non Ai lens. I am astonished at the inbuilt filters. Before I can mount it on my D810 I am going to have to Ai the mount. Not sure whether to do that myself or get it done. I can at least file the aperture ring so it will fit but wont bother with the CPU chip. I feel very lucky to have got such a printing example of this legendary lens at such short notice. Just to get it ready to mount now.
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I have 4 copies of this lens, but only one in mint condition for my collection.
Last year I bought a copy from the USA eBay and it disappeared ont he way to my house. Insurance paid for it.
Last month I bought another copy ( the last model, which I don't have) from Japan and brazilian customs inexplicably returned it to the sender.
It appears the universe is conspiring against me acquiring this lens. Mystical lens?
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The national Customs would act this way if the item had inadequate paperwork with it. A Pro forma Invoice will always be required and sadly many sellers don't understand the necessity of including this with the shipment. In my country, I get a warning letter that mandatory papers are lacking and have the chance of acting accordingly to clarify particularities of the goods held in customs, but do need to act within 2 weeks otherwise the shipment is returned. As our postal service has become quite sluggish and inefficient after privatization (heard that before??) the window of opportunity to deal with the matter can be frighteningly narrow.
Hopefully there eventually will be a 16/3.5 out there especially for you.
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The national Customs would act this way if the item had inadequate paperwork with it. A Pro forma Invoice will always be required and sadly many sellers don't understand the necessity of including this with the shipment. In my country, I get a warning letter that mandatory papers are lacking and have the chance of acting accordingly to clarify particularities of the goods held in customs, but do need to act within 2 weeks otherwise the shipment is returned. As our postal service has become quite sluggish and inefficient after privatization (heard that before??) the window of opportunity to deal with the matter can be frighteningly narrow.
Hopefully there eventually will be a 16/3.5 out there especially for you.
Thanks.
I asked the seller to ship it back to me using a different service (DHL or FeDex). I really want this lens, which seems to be in mint condition.
I'm still waiting for the customs answer about the reason for the return.
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What a story!
I acquired my copy from China and paid a lot for shipping, I don't use it much but the sharpness and resolution is just amazing. Those built-in filters are fun to use, and hey, the lens is also one of the rarest fisheyes!
Old nikkor fisheyes are classes above the fishys produced in the same era; I heard they were mostly used for industrial purposes. I don't have the original lens cap however which is a shame. :-[
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Hi Aguinaldo.
What a terrible experience. I have an Ai-'D copy sn 275283 (probably built within a few weeks of yours) and it is one of my favorite lenses and is in mint condition. The built in red,orange and yellow filters are a very unique feature (though the yellow is somewhat green). The focus ring is as smooth as butter.
Glad to see that it seems to be working out for you (though in a very strange way).
JIM