NikonGear'23
Images => Life, the Universe & Everything Else => Topic started by: Airy on April 05, 2016, 22:57:20
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Fooling around with Df + a fresh 2nd hand Zeiss 25/2. Its notorious field curvature, which I could check before buying (and I can tell you it is noticeable) is not a reason to shun that lens, which has other qualities : reasonable size and weight (apportioned to the Df), very good nighttime behaviour with low coma, low smear, and moderate, non-invasive flare, and ... the handling. MF is a bit stiff with a relatively short throw, like other Zeiss lenses, and many Nikkors are better from that point of view, but the manufacturing quality and the absence of any slack make one feel confident.
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You are relly "in a pipe" ... no wonder Elon Musk proposes the Hyperloop: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperloop
Which is only the consequence of what we got now. Super shots transporting a mode of life.
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well... usually I prefer organ pipes...
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Sure. I added to our effort ... [Theme] ... today.
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Love the last one. Nice "double-exposure" outside the camera. :)
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great set of images and theme. Mongo particularly likes #1 - great interwoven architecture going on there. Also quite stunned that in such seemingly busy public places, you have managed to get each shot without a depictable person in sight - amazing ! Cannot comment on the lens itself
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Thanks Akira. The key to such "double exposure" was the sky, and most importantly - the place where I stood is normally occupied by a pond...
Thanks Mongo. The trick for the emptiness is as follows : in the first one, I stood on the tramway arrival side, so I just had to wait between two waves. You will still see shadows on the escalator, dwarfed by the wide angle.
Second shot from inside: my coach was at the platform end, and the shot was taken seconds before departure.
Third shot: I stood long enough to let the "arrival" wave go. Also, standing near the end of the concourse hall which is less busy.
Fourth: the sky is not densely populated ;)
I tend however to shoot "empty" shots in public places. It may well be that I interiorized the general public aversion against photographing people in France, former country of liberties and human rights. What Ron does in the US for instance would be hardly feasible here, where you get verbally attacked even for shooting buildings from the street. Maybe I should wear a far eastern tourist attire. In one case I got verbally attacked for just carrying a camera - but that was in an (unknown to me) drug trafficking place nearby. Unfortunately drug trafficking tends to take place anywhere now.
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I like your seemingly random captures of sky, reflections, pipes, et al ... But I know that the difference between 'random' and 'seemingly random' requires a high degree of skill.
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Thanks Akira. The key to such "double exposure" was the sky, and most importantly - the place where I stood is normally occupied by a pond...
I tend however to shoot "empty" shots in public places. It may well be that I interiorized the general public aversion against photographing people in France, former country of liberties and human rights. What Ron does in the US for instance would be hardly feasible here, where you get verbally attacked even for shooting buildings from the street. Maybe I should wear a far eastern tourist attire. In one case I got verbally attacked for just carrying a camera - but that was in an (unknown to me) drug trafficking place nearby. Unfortunately drug trafficking tends to take place anywhere now.
Airy, thanks for the tip. :)
For similar concerns, I'm also reluctant to include people of the sizes in which they can easily be identifiable in my images recently. If people are unavoidable, I would try to include them only as assembled anonymous crowds.
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Fooling around with Df + a fresh 2nd hand Zeiss 25/2. Its notorious field curvature, which I could check before buying (and I can tell you it is noticeable) is not a reason to shun that lens, which has other qualities : reasonable size and weight (apportioned to the Df), very good nighttime behaviour with low coma, low smear, and moderate, non-invasive flare, and ... the handling. MF is a bit stiff with a relatively short throw, like other Zeiss lenses, and many Nikkors are better from that point of view, but the manufacturing quality and the absence of any slack make one feel confident.
I like the color and compositions in these shots. They convey your commuting experience very effectively.
I've been looking for a 2nd hand Zeiss 25/2 for quite a while. They don't show up often, maybe because whoever buys them will not part with them, or maybe because they are not owned by many people in the first place. You must have been lucky.
How is the field curvature behaving? Does it curve away from the camera or towards? Do you have any means to compare the lens to, say the Nikon/Sigma 24/1.4? To me it seems that it is much more tricky to choose a 24/25 lens than a 35.. lots of options in the 35mm length. I'm very much fond of the Zeiss 35/2 and would like to add a wider companion (not as wide as 21mm). I've tried the 25/2.8 and it is not for me.
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Impressive Airy. The Zeiss really handles the reflections well.
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Airy, thanks for the explanation of how you got these images so "peopleless". Mongo wishes he could do the same when sight seeing landscapes on holiday. For some ridiculous reason, everyone that stops near you cannot wait to get themselves in the image completely spoiling any chance of a decent natural landscape.
Also, thanks for the heads-up on the street photography attitudes in France. Must say, Mongo is very surprised and a little disappointed to hear that. Got that treatment in Tunisia but those Government troops had automatic weapons hanging from their shoulders. Mongo's street shooting had to be abandoned lest he be shot for real..... ;D
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@Simsurace: the field curvature is bending backwards (i.e. you may have a sharp centered subject at some mid-distance, and corners at infinite sharp too).
I could do direct comparisons with the Sigma 24/1.4, indeed. Not had the opportunity so far. My first impressions (if memory serves well):
- The Sigma seems to have a flat field, and possibly a nicer daytime bokeh
- The Zeiss has the typical Zeiss rendering (high contrast, high color saturation). It seems more neutral than the warmish (yellowish) 50/2. It also seems to better handle night shots than the Sigma, despite a flare behaviour that is hard to predict (e.g. on a 3-lamp array near a corner, the central one would cause massive flare and the two others none at all). Its distortion, while low overall, is more conspicuous than Sigma's: barrel, but with a more pronounced center distortion, so the observer might notice it since the center seems to buldge.
Use case: Sigma: architecture, ambient or street (great subject isolation)
Zeiss: travel, night
Like all sharp short FL lenses, focussing the Zeiss manually is difficult; in critical cases, check on screen. Here the Sigma AF is helpful (after calibration).
By the way, what was it that put you off with the 25/2.8 ?
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Also, thanks for the heads-up on the street photography attitudes in France.
One reason for my looking for an unconspicuous WA, to avoid shooting people in the face. The 20/2.8 AIS was a wee bit too wide for streetshots though.
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Impressive Airy. The Zeiss really handles the reflections well.
Also my impression. More to come tonight.
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For similar concerns, I'm also reluctant to include people of the sizes in which they can easily be identifiable in my images recently. If people are unavoidable, I would try to include them only as assembled anonymous crowds.
Self-censorship is not my natural attitude, being a brazen Westerner... more precisely, I think it a pity that people (and lawmakers) went paranoid, probably inspired by those in the show- and paparazzi-business, i.e. our leading pack. The essence of street shooting however is to celebrate life, not asphalt, concrete, and neon lighting.
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These modern Zeiss almost all deliver high contrast, colour saturation and sharpness.
I like the third shot.
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Airy, thanks for the comments wrt. Zeiss vs Sigma. They are already quite helpful.
By the way, what was it that put you off with the 25/2.8 ?
It didn't so much put me off -- rather I was not ready to spend the money on this lens when I really want the f/2. I think it is a fine lens if you take if for what it is, i.e. a moderately fast wide-angle. But compared to the 35/2 it is just not quite in the same league I think. The falloff wide open is quite extreme, I would be willing to accept if it was at f/2, but at f/2.8 it is just too much. I don't really get why even a moderately fast lens is so extreme in that respect, maybe it was the engineers' intention, I don't know. You even see it through the viewfinder and I was wondering whether it was vignetting from the lens shade, but it the falloff is really crazy.
Another thing was that despite what I had heard about its insane close focus, it was only sharp at close distances when the subject was placed dead center, wide open that is. If you place the subject off-center and want to throw the background way out of focus with a large aperture (the first thing to try really), the rendition is unfortunately plagued by a lot of astigmatism (I think that's what it is) which introduces a smearing effect. In addition, the field curvature is really extreme up close. I think the Nikon AI-s 28/2 which I also have does better in this regard, even though it doesn't go quite as close.
In contrast and as a surprise to me, the lens was really freaking sharp at large distances, even wide open and pretty far into the corners.
I don't want to bad-mouth it, maybe I got a sub-par sample (although it looked like new), or I didn't spend enough time to learn it. But I guess that the 25/2 would fit me more and also go better together with the 35/2.
EDIT: And to add one more positive, the 25/2.8 is really amazing with regards to color and contrast, there is nothing to complain here (unless you prefer a more subtle rendition). But I guess this is pretty much common throughout the range of ZF/ZE lenses, they are all known for their pop, the straight Planars maybe less so but the Distagons and Makro Planars.
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I was once interested in buying a used 25/2.8, but it could not focus to infinity and the shop (a Leica, Voigtländer and Zeiss dealer...) confirmed it by testing it on a bench - but they did not offer to adjust it.
The 25/2 is probably the better choice (low astigmatism, low coma...) but field curvature is the other way around, so you've been warned. By the way, my copy was for sale over about 6 months until I finally bought it. You may want to check Photo Ciné House in Brussels, rue du midi. They also got other second hand ZF2 : 35/2, 50/2, 50/1.4, 85/1.4... and the boss is yet another Df hugger :)
It is not the first used lens I bought there and, unlike several Paris shops, they never try to cheat people by selling stuff with semi-hidden defects. In Paris I experienced :
At the Boutique Nikon, XVIIth district:
- A grossly defect Noct (1300€ but that's no excuse), which I sure did not buy
- A slightly defect 50/1.2 AIS (diaph does not open fully, maybe 1.25 only); they did not tell nor admit the defect, but sharpness was good and price was low, so that was a deal;
Somewhere in the XIIth district:
- A defect Zeiss distagon 15/3.5, never sharp even stopped down; not bought;
Photo Suffren, XVth district:
- The above mentioned 25/2.8 and, once again, I discovered the problem (and did not buy).
I can only recommend, in Paris : Photo cirque and Le Moyen Format. They treat their customers seriously, not just their pals.
In Brussels, of course, PCH rue du midi.
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Thanks for these tips, good to know!
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Self-censorship is not my natural attitude, being a brazen Westerner... more precisely, I think it a pity that people (and lawmakers) went paranoid, probably inspired by those in the show- and paparazzi-business, i.e. our leading pack. The essence of street shooting however is to celebrate life, not asphalt, concrete, and neon lighting.
Airy, self-censorship is a hindrance to the creative mind, but the self-limitation can be turned into an inspiring rule of a game. I would take the latter.