NikonGear'23

Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Lowell on March 28, 2016, 20:47:45

Title: Differences between the Ai and Ais versions of the Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 models ?
Post by: Lowell on March 28, 2016, 20:47:45
Other than the fact that the Ai version has 7 aperture blades and the Ais version has 9 aperture blades, and the focus throw, is there significant performance differences between these lenses?  Said another way, does the magic ascribed to the Ais lens also apply to the Ai version?

Any thought and information would be much appreciated.

Thanks
Title: Re: Differences between the Ai and Ais versions of the Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 models ?
Post by: Roland Vink on March 29, 2016, 04:46:17
Same optics, so should give the same results. AIS lenses after about no.479xxx have the newer yellow-green Super Integrated Coating (SIC) compared to the older Nikon Integrated Coating (NIC) so there may be some difference when shooting into the light, not sure if it is significant.
Title: Re: Differences between the Ai and Ais versions of the Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 models ?
Post by: Akira on March 29, 2016, 05:22:13
The focus throw of Ai is longer than that of Ais.  During the film days, I always preferred Ais because I could focus faster.  But now I would prefer the longer throw of Ai which allows more precise control of focusing, so long as the optical systems are identical.
Title: Re: Differences between the Ai and Ais versions of the Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 models ?
Post by: Lowell on March 29, 2016, 16:35:31
Roland and Akira,

Thank you very much for the information and taking the time to reply.  This is very helpful.

Lowell
Title: Re: Differences between the Ai and Ais versions of the Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 models ?
Post by: richardHaw on March 29, 2016, 16:59:52
i was considering this lens for some time. is it still relevant these days (image quality)? :o :o :o
Title: Re: Differences between the Ai and Ais versions of the Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 models ?
Post by: Frank Fremerey on March 29, 2016, 17:03:30
Richard: I use it every day. It is a dreamy renderer at 1.4 with bitingly sharp parts where focus hits and a straight high performer @f=4 or f=5.6

Find shiploads of shots with this lens in the "366 days" thread. Also Fons Baerken shoots a lot currently with that lens and Bjørn Rørslett hat shots many tenthousands of shots and always sang it's praise
Title: Re: Differences between the Ai and Ais versions of the Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 models ?
Post by: Lowell on March 29, 2016, 17:20:58
Frank,

Do you have any experience with the Ai version?  It appears that most are referring specifically to the Ais version.  My question really relates to whether the Ai carries the same qualities as the later Ais lens.  The Ai has 7 aperture blades and, as Roland points out, a different coating than the Ais lens but appears to have the same optical design.

Any thoughts there?

thanks,

Lowell
Title: Re: Differences between the Ai and Ais versions of the Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 models ?
Post by: Alaun on March 29, 2016, 18:53:22
Happens I have both, a quick and dirty (as my window 8)) comparison:

(to me, pictures seems of the same quality)

Title: Re: Differences between the Ai and Ais versions of the Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 models ?
Post by: Lowell on March 29, 2016, 19:09:49
Alaun,

Thank you very much for taking the time!  They do seem to be quite similar.  I'm impressed.  I am looking to replace my 35mm f/2 AFD.  I can really see its limitations, especially on my D800E.

Nice images by the way.  Nice that there is some strong back lighting.

This is really helpful for me.

Lowell
Title: Re: Differences between the Ai and Ais versions of the Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 models ?
Post by: Frank Fremerey on March 29, 2016, 23:48:32
Lowell: Werner did that perfectly. I really cannot say which version I had ten years ago, but it was definitely a build from the 1980ies. The one I currently own and use is a 2006 build.
Title: Re: Differences between the Ai and Ais versions of the Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 models ?
Post by: Lowell on March 30, 2016, 01:23:05
Frank,

I agree.  The images provided by Werner are most helpful.  It looks like from Roland Vink's sheets, that Nikon went to AIS around 1981 when several lenses have similar change from AI to AIS.  I assume that indexing was added to several lenses with little other changes and then later coating were changed for the AIS lenses.  Certainly, this is most helpful. 

Thanks

Lowell
Title: Re: Differences between the Ai and Ais versions of the Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 models ?
Post by: JJChan on March 30, 2016, 06:17:44
I've been looking at getting an AIS.

Is there a lot of difference SIC vs old IC coatings?

Alaun, is your AIS serial number >479XXX (thanks Roland for your amazing website) - the flare from backlight in your examples is so well controlled!

JJ
Title: Re: Differences between the Ai and Ais versions of the Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 models ?
Post by: richardHaw on March 30, 2016, 08:11:57
Richard: I use it every day. It is a dreamy renderer at 1.4 with bitingly sharp parts where focus hits and a straight high performer @f=4 or f=5.6

Find shiploads of shots with this lens in the "366 days" thread. Also Fons Baerken shoots a lot currently with that lens and Bjørn Rørslett hat shots many tenthousands of shots and always sang it's praise

thank you, i am going to hunt for a junk :o :o :o
Title: Re: Differences between the Ai and Ais versions of the Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 models ?
Post by: Alaun on March 30, 2016, 10:31:41
the non AIS has ser.no. 3720xx and the AIS has 4708xx

so according to Roland's website, it does not have the most modern coating, but the coatings are different:

 
Title: Re: Differences between the Ai and Ais versions of the Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 models ?
Post by: Lowell on March 30, 2016, 17:27:13
Werner,

I assume that the AI is on the left and AIS on the right. 

As background, I own both the AI and AIS versions of the 105mm F/2.5 lens.  People favor and use both lenses.  The coating on BOTH of those lenses has the greenish cast like on the right. 

Thanks for taking the time to take these really helpful images.

Lowell
Title: Re: Differences between the Ai and Ais versions of the Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 models ?
Post by: Alaun on March 30, 2016, 18:40:38
Assumed correctly :)


Werner
Title: Re: Differences between the Ai and Ais versions of the Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 models ?
Post by: David H. Hartman on March 30, 2016, 20:52:06
Is there a lot of difference SIC vs old IC coatings?

When a lens produces ghost spots they should be less colorful with Super Integrated Coatings.

I have two 28/2.0 AIS Nikkors, one with SIC and one with IC, not a good set to compared as they are so free of flare and ghost. I've wondered for a long time if there is a 24/2.8 with SIC and I know mine is without. If there is a 24/2.8 AIS, AF or AF-D that would be the lens to compare to a version with the older coatings.

Dave
Title: Re: Differences between the Ai and Ais versions of the Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 models ?
Post by: Lowell on March 30, 2016, 21:06:19
Dave,

Thanks much for this information.

I continue to be impressed just how useful this site is.  Its amazing how this kind of information, knowledge and insight comes in from all over the world.  And people take time to help.

thanks,

Lowell
Title: Re: Differences between the Ai and Ais versions of the Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 models ?
Post by: Roland Vink on March 30, 2016, 21:14:40
As far as I can tell, SIC coating appears on the AIS 24/2.8 from serial no 84xxxx upwards. On this lens the difference between NIC and SIC not very obvious, and most of my information comes from comparing pictures on ebay listings where the quality and color balance of the images is hardly consistent, so it's been harder to determine the transition compared to some other lenses.

It would be interesting to compare a NIC vs SIC coated lens to see what the difference really is. Nikon brochures state that SIC is more effective over a wider range of the spectrum but I suspect the difference in practice will be minor since the older coatings were already very good.