Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Jan Anne on March 19, 2016, 14:37:13
Title: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Jan Anne on March 19, 2016, 14:37:13
IRIX announced two variants of their new 15mm f/2.4 ultra wide-angle lens: http://irixlens.com/15mm.php (http://irixlens.com/15mm.php)
The Blackstone is the all metal version and the Firefly is the lightweight version meant for hiking, etc.
Notable features: - Front Filter Thread: 95mm - Removable hood with opening for (polarisation) filter adjustment - Rear gelatin filter slot - It focusses beyond infinity but has an adjustable infinity stop - It can lock focus, for instance at the hyper focal distance - Weather sealed
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Fons Baerken on March 19, 2016, 14:49:20
looks expensive
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Jan Anne on March 19, 2016, 14:59:50
Probably, though it's designed in Switzerland its made in Korea (probably by Samyang), this should make it a little more affordable.
But with the mentioned feature set it might be the best astrophotography and landscape ultra wide-angle out there.
Another competitor for me personally is the Laowa 12mm f/2.8 which claims to have zero distortion: (https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1548/25276175279_a54a0596ee_b.jpg)
Some images with the 12/2.8 https://www.flickr.com/photos/68748978@N02/sets/72157664200113000/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/68748978@N02/sets/72157664200113000/)
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: bjornthun on March 19, 2016, 17:23:20
The lens oviously has anti-reflection coatings, which is named "neutrino coating". This is lame, neutrinos are elementary particles. Hopefully the lens deals better with photons. Swiss engineering?
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Erik Lund on March 19, 2016, 18:16:53
Looks nice! , now will there be a Nikon F mount,,, ?
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Jan Anne on March 19, 2016, 18:22:38
Both the IBIX and Laowa come in Nikon F mount, only the former has a CPU though.
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Erik Lund on March 19, 2016, 18:25:02
Thanks! Price? 8) :D
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Ron Scubadiver on March 19, 2016, 18:39:14
Focus lock is a nice idea. The difference in mass between the light and metal versions does not seem significant. If it is made by Samyang, it might not be serviceable. So far it seems the procedure for Samyang lenses in need of repair is to turn them into paperweights.
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Akira on March 19, 2016, 18:47:54
Never heard of the brand Irix, but the lens appears to be attractive!
I hope the distant scale is reliable. My only complain of Samyang 7.5mm/f3.5 fisheye was that you cannot trust the distant scale for the focusing usint the hyper focal distance method. Of course, I also hope for the affordable price.
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: richardHaw on March 19, 2016, 18:51:26
Nutrino sounds nutritious :o :o :o Looks nice on paper but without an Ai interface this lens is not as appealing unless it chipped. The laowa (old frog) zero d is good as i have tested the lens myself and wonders why nikon did not do this.
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Erik Lund on March 19, 2016, 18:52:47
JA 12mm without distortion,,, not full frame I guess
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Jan Anne on March 19, 2016, 19:02:07
JA 12mm without distortion,,, not full frame I guess
Specs for the Laowa 12/2.8 ZD
As it doesn't have a CPU I plan to get the Nikon F version if prices are reasonable, with my incoming Techart M adapter I can program in the EXIF for the Sony's.
Their lenses are sold in a variety of mounts, including Canon EF, Nikon F, Pentax K, Sony A and Sony E. They are currently working on a rectilinear, almost distortion-free ultra-wide angle lens for 24x36 cameras: the Laowa Zero-D 12mm f/2.8 (Zero-D symbolizing the absence of distortion). The main specifications of the prototype are the following:
Image circle: 24x36 Field of view: 121.96° Optical formula: 16 elements, including 2 aspherical elements and 3 elements made of glass with anomalous dispersion, in 10 groups Number of aperture blades: 7 Aperture range: f/2.8 - f/22 Manual focus Minimum focusing distance: 0.18m Maximum magnification: 0.2x Maximum diameter: 74.8mm Length: 82.2mm Weight: circa 570g.
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: richardHaw on March 19, 2016, 19:11:40
Did they shift the lens permanently as you can do with tilt/shift lenses?
yes. They were being sold discounted at cp+ :o :o :o The shift lens is the macro one while the zero d is just a regular prime. You can see a sample of it in my blog.
The irix sounds overly complicated. More things that can get broken. Simple is best.
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: richardHaw on March 19, 2016, 19:13:14
The shift lens is the macro one while the zero d is just a regular prime. You can see a sample of it in my blog.
I know about the 15mm with the 6mm shift feature (only usable for APS-C btw), but the 12mm also corrects perspective somehow but doesn't have the shift feature. The only explanation I can come up with that the lens is permanently shifted on a most common setting.
An example, the building looks absolutely straight but maybe I'm reading too much into the zero distortion thing ;D (https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1670/24968119612_238b374479_c.jpg) https://www.flickr.com/photos/68748978@N02/24968119612/sizes/c/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/68748978@N02/24968119612/sizes/c/)
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: richardHaw on March 20, 2016, 06:41:23
I know about the 15mm with the 6mm shift feature (only usable for APS-C btw), but the 12mm also corrects perspective somehow but doesn't have the shift feature. The only explanation I can come up with that the lens is permanently shifted on a most common setting.
An example, the building looks absolutely straight but maybe I'm reading too much into the zero distortion thing ;D (https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1670/24968119612_238b374479_c.jpg) https://www.flickr.com/photos/68748978@N02/24968119612/sizes/c/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/68748978@N02/24968119612/sizes/c/)
not sure about being permanently shifted but i was awed by the lens :o :o :o
the IRIX (what a name) seems promising, i just hope that they designed it to look more like an jeep than knight rider. sorry for the analogy but i just do not have the right words for it ::)
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: simsurace on March 20, 2016, 11:04:59
An example, the building looks absolutely straight but maybe I'm reading too much into the zero distortion thing ;D
The horizon is in the center, no surprise here for me. Perspective correction is only necessary when you want the horizon to be off-center.
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Les Olson on March 20, 2016, 12:43:20
Distortion is not the same thing as converging verticals, and shift only corrects converging verticals. The Laowa website talks about a shift mechanism for distortion correction but that is wrong. In fact, the Laowa 15mm is reported to have marked distortion ( https://www.ephotozine.com/article/laowa-15mm-f-4-1-1-macro-lens-review-28598 ).
Barrel distortion and peripheral light fall-off are the Scylla and Charybdis of extreme wide angle lenses, and if one is reduced the other gets worse - a fish-eye lens has designed-in extreme barrel distortion to make light fall-off acceptable. However, the Laowa is also reported to have a lot of light fall-off. Large front elements mitigate peripheral light fall-off, so the IRIX with 96mm front filters might do better.
I am not sure about a 580g lens for hiking; it may have something to do with the fact that the definition of wilderness in Switzerland is anywhere out of earshot of a waiter.
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Erik Lund on March 20, 2016, 12:48:41
The last shot is with the 12mm,,,
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: bjornthun on March 20, 2016, 14:44:14
For Sony FE mount there will soon be the Voigtländer 15/4.5, which weighs in at 294 g compared to 520 g for the IRIX 15/2.4 lens.
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: simsurace on March 20, 2016, 18:45:17
I am not sure about a 580g lens for hiking; it may have something to do with the fact that the definition of wilderness in Switzerland is anywhere out of earshot of a waiter.
I come from Switzerland and I find that definition very unsuitable. Unfortunately, we don't have much true wilderness in Switzerland. The issue becomes obvious everytime I go somewhere with less impact from mankind. But everyone's definition of 'wild' and 'nature' is different.
Regarding the 580g lens and hiking -- I have taken heavier stuff on quite long hikes and also backpacking trips (the longest was 6 days and I had a camera and wideangle and tele zoom lenses). It is a large commitment, but it can pay off because it is when I am in the most remote places and completely immersed in the experience (something which is hard to imitate without actually doing the trip) that the most memorable shots happen. For that end, any type of weight saving without compromising quality is welcome.
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: jhinkey on March 20, 2016, 18:50:36
The need of the PL filter rotation window is questionable for such a wideangle.
For more practical reason, I would like a compact 20/2.8 lens that replaces Ais Nikkor 20/2.8. No AF but with a long focus throw.
Don't agree on the PL rotation window, but do agree on the 20/2.8. Give me a relatively compact 20/2.8 that's had some optical corrections to improve those corners and better coatings, etc. to improve its flare & ghosting performance.
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: jhinkey on March 20, 2016, 18:54:10
For Sony FE mount there will soon be the Voigtländer 15/4.5, which weighs in at 294 g compared to 520 g for the IRIX 15/2.4 lens.
Yep, and it's an excellent performer. I guess the 15/2.4 is for those wide angle shots of the stars and you really want to have it along due to the weight & size. Still, every lens has its purpose and use.
It's great to have the option to put a filter on this 15/2.4 as sometimes you need a ND filter to have a long exposure as well as a CPL when you need to take the glare off of foliage for those waterfall shots in the forest.
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: bjornthun on March 20, 2016, 19:18:15
Yep, and it's an excellent performer. I guess the 15/2.4 is for those wide angle shots of the stars and you really want to have it along due to the weight & size. Still, every lens has its purpose and use.
It's great to have the option to put a filter on this 15/2.4 as sometimes you need a ND filter to have a long exposure as well as a CPL when you need to take the glare off of foliage for those waterfall shots in the forest.
Yes, f/2.8 and better is probably useful for astro, and so the performance wrt. coma in the new IRIX 15/2.4 will be of interest.
I don't do much astro myself, only some casual shots.
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Akira on March 20, 2016, 19:32:22
It's great to have the option to put a filter on this 15/2.4 as sometimes you need a ND filter to have a long exposure as well as a CPL when you need to take the glare off of foliage for those waterfall shots in the forest.
It is common knowledge that PL doesn't work when the angle of incident light is too oblique. Roughly a 28mm lens is normally thought to be the widest lens with which you can use PL.
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Jan Anne on March 20, 2016, 19:43:03
Distortion is not the same thing as converging verticals, and shift only corrects converging verticals. The Laowa website talks about a shift mechanism for distortion correction but that is wrong. In fact, the Laowa 15mm is reported to have marked distortion.
Exactly, was getting up to speed on the shift feature of the 15/4 when I read about the 12/2.8 so kind of projected what they wrote about the 15/4 onto the 12/2.8 :-[
Well bummer, was really hoping for some straight trees in my wide angle startrail shots :'(
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7301/9797632945_0729753d07_o.jpg) D800E with Samyang 14/2.8, Sweden 2013
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: pluton on March 21, 2016, 07:05:28
It's great to have the option to put a filter on this 15/2.4 as sometimes you need a ND filter to have a long exposure as well as a CPL when you need to take the glare off of foliage for those waterfall shots in the forest.
Agree, many more uses for Pola filter besides sky darkening.
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: jhinkey on March 21, 2016, 07:59:33
It is common knowledge that PL doesn't work when the angle of incident light is too oblique. Roughly a 28mm lens is normally thought to be the widest lens with which you can use PL.
Many uses for a CPL that don't involve the sky - taking the glare off rocks, foliage, etc. which works just fine on such a wide angle. 28mm? Hardly.
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Les Olson on March 21, 2016, 09:53:17
I come from Switzerland and I find that definition very unsuitable. Unfortunately, we don't have much true wilderness in Switzerland. The issue becomes obvious everytime I go somewhere with less impact from mankind. But everyone's definition of 'wild' and 'nature' is different.
I am sorry - I should have put in a smiley :) I live just over the border, in France, but I grew up in Australia and that still dominates my feeling for "wilderness".
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Akira on March 21, 2016, 09:54:25
Many uses for a CPL that don't involve the sky - taking the glare off rocks, foliage, etc. which works just fine on such a wide angle. 28mm? Hardly.
Okay, thanks. I have a PL and 20/4.0. I'll try the combo whenever the chance arises.
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Erik Lund on March 21, 2016, 10:05:54
With natural density and polarization filters I have often been very disappointed on high resolution/digital cameras; I have see unpredictable: Colour cast, out of focus, fuzzy looking images and I have only been using B&W and Nikon brand filters.
Of course you should experiment ;) and yes also on wide angle images, I have used Pol filter on 14mm on DX with great success
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Roland Vink on March 21, 2016, 20:01:24
I used polarizers a lot when shooting film, on digital the filter often seems to cause loss of contrast even when the lens is well shaded. Mine are all multicoated, but I suspect a lot of reflections come from the polarizing foil sandwiched inside the glass which is not coated, which interact badly with sensor or filter stack in front of the sensor.
I'm very happy using polarizers on lenses much wider than 28mm, I regularly use it on my AI 20/3.5 and I'd like to try one on my AIS 16/2.8 fisheye. My rule is this: if it improves the image use it, otherwise leave it off. Doesn't matter which lens/focal length. Sure you can get a dark band in the sky when using very wide lenses, but whether it shows depends on the angle of the sun and lens ... for example if the sun is very high the band of maximum polarization runs near the horizon all around, which is fine by me.
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: jhinkey on March 21, 2016, 20:27:32
With natural density and polarization filters I have often been very disappointed on high resolution/digital cameras; I have see unpredictable: Colour cast, out of focus, fuzzy looking images and I have only been using B&W and Nikon brand filters.
Of course you should experiment ;) and yes also on wide angle images, I have used Pol filter on 14mm on DX with great success
I notice a general lowering of resolution when using a CPL or ND filter, but only with my sharpest lenses. This goes for tele and wides.
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: simsurace on March 21, 2016, 23:12:32
I am sorry - I should have put in a smiley :) I live just over the border, in France, but I grew up in Australia and that still dominates my feeling for "wilderness".
No problem!
Does anyone know when the lens will be for sale and at what price?
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Jan Anne on March 21, 2016, 23:20:41
Does anyone know when the lens will be for sale and at what price?
They should be available this spring, no word on the pricing yet though.
And regarding the Firefly model, the weight is only slightly lighter but the rubber focus ring with the focus tab should make focussing with gloves on a little easier I guess.
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Jan Anne on March 23, 2016, 22:07:53
The Blackstone will be priced at €650 and the Firestone at €500 which is slightly above the Samyang lenses which makes sense as they have more features.
Another nice detail is that there's also a 11mm f/4 in the works which should be released BEOY. http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-this-is-the-first-picture-of-the-irix-11mm-f4-0-lens-and-its-coming-for-e-mount-too/ (http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-this-is-the-first-picture-of-the-irix-11mm-f4-0-lens-and-its-coming-for-e-mount-too/)
Here's a video where some of the features are explained, prices are mentioned, etc
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Erik Lund on March 23, 2016, 22:40:04
Very nice price point!
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: John Harkus on March 23, 2016, 22:42:53
I looked at both 15mm versions at the Photography Show in Birmingham yesterday, they seem very nicely built, and the styling for the more expensive variety is quite similar to the current Sigmas and Zeiss. Looking forward to some real-world examples. I can't wait to see what the 11mm performs like! John
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Akira on March 24, 2016, 01:05:34
Jan, thanks for the further info! 11/4.0 sounds amazing.
Considering that IRIX is a Swiss company, the "neutrino coating" may be inspired by CERN...
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Hugh_3170 on March 24, 2016, 07:40:15
Or simply by good old fashioned pure BS? ;D
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: simsurace on March 24, 2016, 09:04:12
Jan, thanks for the further info! 11/4.0 sounds amazing.
Considering that IRIX is a Swiss company, the "neutrino coating" may be inspired by CERN...
It's a marketing buzzword for sure. Neutrinos are very weakly interacting. BTW, one of the most impressive neutrino detectors is Super Kamiokande under Mount Ikeno in Japan.
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Akira on March 24, 2016, 10:44:18
It's a marketing buzzword for sure. Neutrinos are very weakly interacting. BTW, one of the most impressive neutrino detectors is Super Kamiokande under Mount Ikeno in Japan.
For the serious physicists, Super Kamiokande could be more impressive. But, hey, for the marketing purpose, neutrino can add some positive impression to the lens. I would refrain from judging their marketing sense, though. :P
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: bjornthun on March 24, 2016, 11:45:30
"Neutrino coating" sounds only weird to me, since I've once studied physics. :D
How does the lens deal with photons? ;)
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Akira on March 24, 2016, 12:03:46
"Neutrino coating" sounds only weird to me, since I've once studied physics. :D
How does the lens deal with photons? ;)
I hope the neutrino coating won't deal with the photons and, as neutrinos are supposed to behave, just let them pass through the lens without any hindrance. :)
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: simsurace on March 24, 2016, 12:20:33
I hope the neutrino coating won't deal with the photons and, as neutrinos are supposed to behave, just let them pass through the lens without any hindrance. :)
I hope Irix lens will at least be able to bend the path of the photons. :D
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Erik Lund on March 24, 2016, 13:26:00
OK I think this is enough on the naming of the company/lens/coatings - Please stay on the product itself. Thank you.
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: jhinkey on March 24, 2016, 20:10:59
Also, there is an image of an 11mm/4 lens now floating around. This along with Voigtlander coming out with E-mount 10mm, 12.5mm, and 15mm lenses - a good time for us wide angle junkies!
Now if one of these manufacturers could produce a native full frame E-mount 180 deg. fisheye that is as sharp and flare/ghost resistant as my 16/3.5 AI I'd be in heaven!!
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: Erik Lund on March 24, 2016, 20:27:48
Did you try the Samyang 12mm, it's 180 deg, should be in E mount as well or?
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: bjornthun on March 24, 2016, 21:47:48
Appearantly the Irix 11mm f/4 was on public display togerher with the 15/2.4 lens: http://photorumors.com/2016/03/24/irix-11mm-f4-lens-is-coming-next/#more-80352 (http://photorumors.com/2016/03/24/irix-11mm-f4-lens-is-coming-next/#more-80352)
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: John Harkus on March 24, 2016, 21:50:30
The guys on the stand at the photo show said the 11mm would be out around May, I couldn't get even a rough price out of them I'm afraid
Title: Re: Just Announced: IRIX 15mm f/2.4 Blackstone and Firefly
Post by: bjornthun on March 24, 2016, 22:03:20