NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Michael Erlewine on March 12, 2016, 22:05:51
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My copy of the Nikkor AM-ED (APO-Macro) f/5.6 lens finally arrived, with a Copal #0 shutter. I simply used a K2-Ring for the mount, a K-5 Ring for some exention, and then mounted the lens to a 37mm-52mm step-up ring directly to the front of the lens. I think I got that right.
Anyway, it works. I have it mounted on the Nikon PB-4 bellows and am using the Nikon D810 on the rear-standard. Here are my first to photos taken with the lens, enough to prove to me that this is a sharp lens, with good color, although the color may be a teeny-weenie bit on the harsh side. It seems well-corrected and, as mentioned, very sharp. I like it.
These photos taken with the Nikon D810, PB-4 Bellows, and Zerene Stacker.
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oh that's beautiful Michael, great results!!
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Looks impressive, Michael.
I still believe that you used BR-2(A) instead of K2, though. BR-2(A) has a male 52mm thread, and K2, a female one.
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Looks impressive, Michael.
I still believe that you used BR-2(A) instead of K2, though. BR-2(A) has a male 52mm thread, and K2, a female one.
You may be right. Not my long suit. I will check next time I can.
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If you screwed the mount directly or via K5 into the 52mm thread of AM ED to use it in reversed position, the mount is probably BR-2(A).
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If you screwed the mount directly or via K5 into the 52mm thread of AM ED to use it in reversed position, the mount is probably BR-2(A).
My previous remarks were another plan. It looks like I just used the BR-2A and attached it to the thread of the front of the lens, with the lens reversed. Make sense?
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My previous remarks were another plan. It looks like I just used the BR-2A and attached it to the thread of the front of the lens, with the lens reversed. Make sense?
Yes, that was the method I proposed in another thread.
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It seems to suit you well.
My recomondation: Try to leave Zerene out of the picture. Explore movements instead.
You will be surprised what the histrorical AMED can do for you
Why do I say that?
See: The Noct has a perfect soft transition between focus and BG-rendering. This suits you well.
The AMED has a superhigh definition, much more like an Otus stopped down to 5.6. Take this without stacking to get the most of it.
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Here is a photo taken with the Nikon D810, with only a few stacked layers (three) to touch on key point to have sharp (three layers). I also checked out single-shot photos, but saw little difference than a stacked photo with only a few layers. The real problems of this lens are not that.
I am sure some of you can tell me why, but although this lens is very sharp, more than sharp enough, the lens elements must lack some coatings, so the colors are harsher than softer. Perhaps modern lenses have special coatings we get used to. I can see it in the top flower petal, the light greenish one. There is not much I can to do ameliorate that color sheen. I could try a polarizer, but the way I have the lens mounted, there are no threads to mount a filter.
So, suggestions are welcome. Otherwise, this is a remarkable lens.
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I feel the coating issue can only be seen, if light hits the front element in an unhelpful way. SO: When I use this lens I apply a huge Compendium (I use my Sinar F2 bellows for it) ... just enough to shadow off any stray light. PLUS: I avaoid backlit scenes with that lens.
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I feel the coating issue can only be seen, if light hits the front element in an unhelpful way. SO: When I use this lens I apply a huge Compendium (I use my Sinar F2 bellows for it) ... just enough to shadow off any stray light. PLUS: I avaoid backlit scenes with that lens.
I have never used a compendium. Any rules? Does it have to fit tight or can it just kind of loosely shade a lens?
What is the difference between a compendium and a matte box?
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Compendium is like a lens hood but not attached to the lens. In my case it sits on the monorail
like a part of the camera. I never used a matte box but if a matte box efficiently gets rid of stray light
you are in business.
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Here is a photo taken with the Nikon D810, with only a few stacked layers (three) to touch on key point to have sharp (three layers). I also checked out single-shot photos, but saw little difference than a stacked photo with only a few layers. The real problems of this lens are not that.
I am sure some of you can tell me why, but although this lens is very sharp, more than sharp enough, the lens elements must lack some coatings, so the colors are harsher than softer. Perhaps modern lenses have special coatings we get used to. I can see it in the top flower petal, the light greenish one. There is not much I can to do ameliorate that color sheen. I could try a polarizer, but the way I have the lens mounted, there are no threads to mount a filter.
So, suggestions are welcome. Otherwise, this is a remarkable lens.
This green sheen could be due to reasons unrelated to the lens (or did you try a different lens on the same shot?). The top petal is apparently lit by a light behind the subject on the right side. The left back part of the petal is lit by the reflecting light from the front part, which would be green light. I would simply try to move the back light closer in, angle it more into the petal and tune it down. This should both get rid of the white glare on the right part of the petal and throw some direct light on the now shaded part of the petal.
As for the lens shade, you simply want to shield the front element from any light sources, make it as tight as possible without the shade coming within the angle of view.
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Thanks everyone. I will just build a little shade out of the crinkly heavy paper I use for video work. Also, perhaps a polarizer might help, but I have not had this lens long enough to have any filter holder figured out. As for light, it was just outside light from a window.
Still, this lens reminds me of what I find in the Printing Nikkors, which are also very sharp, highly-corrected, but lack coatings, as they were never made for outside use, but rather to be used inside a film scanner.
I do appreciate any suggestions how to modify these lenses so that they can be used outside, because they are outstanding lenses, but just a little harsh. Any ideas?
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I used the 120 AM for all those years I did large-format photography, and never saw any "green" issue. The lens surely is designed to deal with daylight. It might be you react to the ED glass design and the purity and contrast of colours produced by it. Plus see the next paragraph.
Try a magenta CC filter to cut a little back on the greens if required. Also, do examine the light source as I suspect using anything other than a true continuous-spectrum source can get you into the trouble you describe. LED lights will not do.
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I used the 120 AM for all those years I did large-format photography, and never saw any "green" issue. The lens surely is designed to deal with daylight. It might be you react to the ED glass design and the purity and contrast of colours produced by it. Plus see the next paragraph.
Try a magenta CC filter to cut a little back on the greens if required. Also, do examine the light source as I suspect using anything other than a true continuous-spectrum source can get you into the trouble you describe. LED lights will not do.
I go your LED message. This was sunlight coming through a window, so no LEDs. I use artificial lights very rarely. I wonder if you have any comment on my other thought, that these lenses being perhaps not so well coated... what can we do to ameliorate that?
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My copy is from the mid '80s, so obviously coatings then were less advanced than today. However, it apparently has some kind of multicoating. I don't think your perceived problem is there.
However, you definitively need a very efficient lens shade. Do remember the lens projects a huge image circle and on an FX camera, there will be lots of stray light bouncing around.
If no movements are used, making an ad hoc shade of two K-5 rings should work.
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What Bjørn says and meand Simone is to be bold and uderlines
At 1:1 this lens has 23 Centimeters of image circle!
In your picture you only use a small sweet spot in the middle compared to a huge "wide angle" image circle
Btw. You can use the image circle shifting on the back standart without changing the perspective.
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However, you definitively need a very efficient lens shade. Do remember the lens projects a huge image circle and on an FX camera, there will be lots of stray light bouncing around.
If no movements are used, making an ad hoc shade of two K-5 rings should work.
I used the BR-2(A) and mounted the lens with the front 52mm filter, meaning the lens is reversed. How would I mount the K-5 Rings since the lens is reversed? Perhaps I should mount the lens differently?
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I'll make a post of the better way to mount it once I return to Oslo. Perhaps later today.
If you have 37-52 step rings, K-5, and BR2/K-2, you should by the way have all the pieces you need. Unscrew the rear section, put the step ring the to act as a guider, add the K-5 and tighten. Can't remember whether the final F-mount will be provided by BR2 or K-2, that depends on the thread gender on the free end of the K-5, but one of them will fit and provide the bayonet for attaching to camera or bellows.
At least I think the K-5 was the required spacer, but it might have been the K-4. You soon enough discover which one is the correct part when you start juggling around the bits and pieces.
As an exercise in patience, I recommend sitting down at a work table filled with step rings, adapters, and the odd parts from you scrap bins, and make something out of the parts. One always finds new or unexpected solutions even to problems one didn't realise existed previously :D
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I'll make a post of the better way to mount it once I return to Oslo. Perhaps later today.
Thanks. I look forward to it. As it is now, I am only using either the front or back of the lens, but not messing with the Copal #0 shutter. Are you saying to open up the lens shutter, etc? In that case, I probably will wait for an illustration of how to do that. But I will play with some rings, etc. in the meantime.
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The rear part of the lens simply screws into the shutter unit. This is the way all large-format lenses are constructed. You need to split the lens in order to mount them on a lens board .... (the lens board ends up in the middle of the lens). The bottom of the Copal shutter unit will go flush to the lens board. Usually there is a spanning ring there as well so the lens is aligned and centered properly. You don't need a lens board, but if the extra centering ring is present, do take care of it in a safe place if it ever is required again.
Just get hold of the rear part of the lens, the one without engraved data on it, and twist it off as were it a screw. Anti-clockwise (left) to open, clockwise (right) to fasten. The threads are very finely pitched, so be careful to get the threads properly aligned when you put the rear end back.
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This is the way all large-format lenses are constructed...
Obviously, I know little about large-format lenses, but I will set up a little operating table, spread my adapters out, and see what I can do.
Thanks once again. You are, indeed, the Lens Meister!
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some lovely tonal colours and feel to the image from this lens. However, not sure which lens you are referring to. Is it the 120mm medium to large format lens ??? This does not appear to have been made for some time. If it is , Mongo has two of these mounted to short bellows and a "T" mount which he had all but forgotten about. If it is the 120mm, you have encouraged Mongo to have another try with this lens.
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My copy of the Nikkor AM-ED (APO-Macro) f/5.6 lens finally arrived, with a Copal #0 shutter. I simply used a K2-Ring for the mount, a K-5 Ring for some exention, and then mounted the lens to a 37mm-52mm step-up ring directly to the front of the lens. I think I got that right.
It is the perfect lens for your x-act, not reversed.
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some lovely tonal colours and feel to the image from this lens. However, not sure which lens you are referring to. Is it the 120mm medium to large format lens ??? This does not appear to have been made for some time. If it is , Mongo has two of these mounted to short bellows and a "T" mount which he had all but forgotten about. If it is the 120mm, you have encouraged Mongo to have another try with this lens.
Yes, that's it. The Nikkor AM-ED (APO-Macro) f/5.6 Lens
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As for light, it was just outside light from a window.
The same applies, the window is probably too far away. Unless you like the bright reflection in the petal, you can try to move the plant closer to the window and then take another shot.
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Here is a quick shot of the AM-ED 120mm, with my current setup. Starting from the bottom, there is a Nikon lens cap, on top of that is the BR-2(A), on top of which is the lens, and on top of that is the lens, reversed. The back of the lens does not seem to have threads or not threads I can find something to screw into.
What I would like is to have the lens facing forward in standard position, so that I can screen a lens hood into it. But I am not sure how I modify the back (top in this image) to do this. Perhaps this is what nfoto may show me in an image.
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Michael, just hold the lens in its normal original orientation and simply twist the rear end off.
Why make such a simple matter difficult? Twist and turn. Takes seconds. All large-format lenses are built to be split in this manner. That is also the reason the threads are so finely pitched. You will be able to assemble the lens again without worries about misalignment.
Just try it.
Your image also shows the retaining (spanning) ring. It's the one with notches every 90 degrees. It serves to center the lens on the lens board and to secure its position.
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Michael, just hold the lens in its normal original orientation and simply twist the rear end off.
Why make such a simple matter difficult? Twist and turn. Takes seconds. All large-format lenses are built to be split in this manner. That is also the reason the threads are so finely pitched. You will be able to assemble the lens again without worries about misalignment.
Just try it.
Your image also shows the retaining (spanning) ring. It's the one with notches every 90 degrees. It serves to center the lens on the lens board and to secure its position.
Of course, I did that at once. I took off the back lens, and as you pointed out, there is a little notched ring that screws off. No problem. But then what? What do I next?
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Just returned home and located my 120 AM.
First image shows the lens split with front part incl. the Copal shutter, rear section, BR2 reversal ring, 37-52 step ring (for centering), a T2-M39Leica adapter (distance spacer). Also apparent is that the lens indeed is multicoated (we discussed this aspect earlier in this thread).
Next, put the 37-52 onto the rear end of the shutter with the narrow opening down. This will to the required first approximation center the rear lens. Add the T2-M39 spacer, put the BR2 on top, and stick the rear lens into the opening and screw it home on its threads at the back of the shutter unit. That's it.
This trick works because the rear lens is a trifle wider in diameter than the free opening on the F-mount bayonet. Were the lens to be mounted directly on an F-mount camera, this of course wouldn't work as the rear element would jam in the camera throat. However, due to the design of the 120AM, this mounting approach is impossible as the lens needs much longer extension just in order to focus to infinity (for which, might I add, it is not designed ...). All bellows or extension tubes have the required internal clearance.
Assembly time about 20 sec with practice.
Other solutions are of course feasible, but one uses what is available on the work table for such minor modifications. I have used the lens thus modified for decades. I add a narrow extension with a CPU inside to the bellows to have the correct EXIF data recorded as well.
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Got it. Did it. It works. Thanks much!!!
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Just glad to be of any assistance.
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Very elegant solution. You got to love cobbling together a set of seemingly unrelated adapters and using them to construct a custom mounting solution. 8)
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The idea is a stretch but the result is elegant!
BR Super!
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thanks for the pictures of this lens. It is the one ! Now Mongo will have to put it to good use.
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Here is the assembled lens and mount, with a hood to help keep out the stray light. Thanks to nfoto!
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A question for nfoto:
I have run into the problem with the mount for the AM-ED 120. Now that I have screwed it together as directed, the aperture setting is frozen and won't move. Somehow the tightening restricts it. If I loosed it up, it will work, but then the whole thing is no longer tight. Any suggestions? Thanks.
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Look underneath the shutter unit. There is a lever that sets the aperture, this connects to a metal plate that needs to be free in order to move the aperture to a new setting. This coupling has become jammed somewhere.
Examine the distance spacer(s) used and arrange them so no jamming occurs. Ensure the 37-52 has its smaller opening directed against the shutter back end.
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I found the problem. I had the 37-52 upside down, but for a reason. Which was that this is the only way it would work, because the t-Mount is slightly too thick. I have Fotdiox T-Mount to Nik ring, but as mentioned it is just a little too thick. If you have any other ideas os something of that diameter that is a little thinner, that would work.
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You mentioned the BR2 Ring and I have the BR2A Ring. That must be the problem. I finally found a BR2 Ring (not the A variety) and ordered it. Will that do it?