NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Vilhelm on January 12, 2016, 16:00:44
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lens info: http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/en/photo-imaging/product-field/photo-lenses/products/dslr-lenses/tiltshift-lenses/ (http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/en/photo-imaging/product-field/photo-lenses/products/dslr-lenses/tiltshift-lenses/)
The 90/4.5 Makro-Symmar definitely classifies as what can be called an odd lens, a specialized tool aimed at those who find the Canon and Nikon T/S & PC-E lenses either inadequate for the task at hand (as in not good enough image quality) or annoying given their handling characteristics. The lens has an interchangeable bayonet (replacement costs about 100 EUR + shipping from Schneider) and it is manufactured in Canon EOS, Nikon-F, Sony Alpha and Pentax-K mount. Made on order, I think only B&H Photo Video has them in stock every now and then.
I use the 90/4.5 Makro-Symmar for oevre photos ie. modern art (sculptures, paintings behind glass, medium-sized objects etc.) and for any and all product photos that require tilting the focal plane, as well as architecture (it can be shifted rotating 360°. As opposed to Nikon PC-E lens construction, this lens can be tilted AND shifted independently of axis, rotated with 30° steps. I think it's questionable to call it a "Makro" as it only goes down to 1:4 (min. focusing distance is 0.57m) but it is very useful in product photography that does not require reproduction magnification levels.
It is actually a medium format lens, with DSLR mount so it paints a very big area (about 35% larger) than full frame DSLR tilt/shift lenses. Thanks to this, image quality on a DSLR stays very high even at maximum tilt and/or shift settings. It has 12mm of shift and tilt 8° (360° rotateable) and an Arca-Swiss mount at its optical center point (therefore panoramic and shifting does not introduce parallax shift).
12mm of shift doubles the frame coverage ie the 36mpix D810 can produce 72mpix stitched images from shifted frames. As opposed to the traditionally Nikon choice of X & Y axis tilt/shift, the lens can be turned around its axis for 360° with 30° stops (while it is shifted and/or tilted). It's a fully mechanical lens, aperture control with 1/3 f-stop clicks. The lens construction is in my opionion mechanically ingenious. A total of 9 control rings change the aperture, focus, shift (and shift rotate) as well as tilt (and tilt rotate). Focus throw is as good as it can get, a whopping 330° turn (as opposed to the PC-E Nikkors with a very hasty 160°).
Strongly recommended for those who find their existing choice of tilt/shift lenses inadequate, I can't really find anything bad except the weight (1.1kg) to say about it. Resolving power is better than Makro-Planar 2/100 ZF.2 AND better than Milvus 2/100, the only non-supertele lenses that resolve more detail than this lens are the 85 and 55 Otus and APO-Summicron 2/50 (source: Lensscore)
What does it do? Product photography and architecture, normal or tilted focal plane, shifted or not shifted. For photos taken with this lens you can go to my client's website, about 2/3 of all the oevre photos on this website I have taken with this lens: http://www.jirigeller.com/works.html (http://www.jirigeller.com/works.html)
For some more images of the lens, and what it does, see these attachments.
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Interesting lens, thank you Vilhelm for posting the link and the pics
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Thanks for sharing.
Have looked at them (there's also a 28mm and a 50mm) and had them in hand during one of my stays in London, but didn't decide.
Rather, for my architecture work, I really on the Nikkor PCs and used (I should say tried without great success) a Sinar P system adapted to my DSLR. This proved to be another source of troubles instead of being a solution. So sold the Sinar and just work with the Nikons.
But man these Schneiders are looking at me... again...
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I have the 120mm from this series but not in the TS-mount.
It is the same "optical engine" like the 120TS in Leica S Mount but I got her in Copal 0 on a Sinar plate for my P2.
The performance of this optical formula is mind blowing.
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The DLSR series 28mm Schneider-Kreuznach is very very good, the 50mm tilt-shift for some reason is a dud (in some areas even worse than the Nikkor 45/2.8 PC-E Micro). Will post more later, just browsing while waiting for a flight so no archive to substantiate claims with :D
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Maybe I missed it but what do the MTF charts look like?
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They are listed here:
https://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogSubCategoryDisplay.aspx?CID=1822
Shoot it at f/8 and your fine says the MTF for the 90mm
Indeed the 50mm is uneven in performance according to the curves...
Don't judge a book by it's cover.
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Shoot it at f/8 and your fine says the MTF for the 90mm
I like to shoot wide open on a fast and sharp lens. I have been studying the Noct Nikkor, which I know is (or was) a favorite of yours. Unfortunately, apparently that lens has a lot of CA wide open. What other lenses (if any) have the character of the Noct, but might be better corrected? What the specs say on the Noct look great to me, sharp but with some curvature. The new Noct is not nearly as sharp as the f/1.2. Your thoughts please?
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In my opinion the 58mm 1.4 G i sharp enough... I recommend you try it along the Noct-Nikkor!
The only fast similar lens well corrected and fast I know of is the Leica M 50mm f/0.95 not really suitable for Nikon but works on a Sony A7R II
But it belongs in another thread
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Aren't the T/S "Macro-Symmars" actually rehoused Mamiya medium-format lenses?
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Yes, Schneider-Kreuznach's DSLR lens line is in effect designed to draw medium format, bayonet change costs 90 EUR + shipping at Schneider-Kreuznach. Which is why they wildly outperform DSLR tilt-shifts, they're originally designed for a much larger image circle than kino format T/S lenses.
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Being designed for a larger format usually also means the lens resolves less than those optics optimised for the more demanding smaller format. You can't have it all at once. Or if the designers go all the extra miles, you surely do pay through the nose for that.
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I rented one of these beasts for a week. Try before you buy.
Image quality was good, mine backfocused which was a pain. Impossible to use with gloves, which I know is a prerequisite for Bjorn, due to the narrow focusing rings. You have to turn the lens over to do stitches, another pain. As we used to say in West Texas "too much sugar for a dime".
Just my opinion.
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Image quality was good, mine backfocused which was a pain.
Did you try it with live view?
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No, because I used it on a D700 which was the latest Nikon camera at that time.
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John, Can a manual focus lens 'backfocus?'
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I'm probably not expert enough to say. If you focus at a specific point and the camera gives you focus confirmation, make the image, and view on importing and something in the bg is all that is in focus I would call that a back focus problem. Perhaps it was a problem with that specific copy of the lens. I never had that problem with any other lens on my D700. I wish I had saved one of the images for demonstration purposes, but I didn't. I didn't have a problem with normal landscapes, just closer subjects.
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if it was the "green dot" focus confirm... i would say the camera was back focusing
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I'm probably not expert enough to say. If you focus at a specific point and the camera gives you focus confirmation, make the image, and view on importing and something in the bg is all that is in focus I would call that a back focus problem. Perhaps it was a problem with that specific copy of the lens. I never had that problem with any other lens on my D700. I wish I had saved one of the images for demonstration purposes, but I didn't. I didn't have a problem with normal landscapes, just closer subjects.
That is due to a mirror misalignment. Theoretically, they can be aligned by setting two screws in the mirror box. The optical path lengths to AF module and ground glass have to match.
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if it was the "green dot" focus confirm... i would say the camera was back focusing
Yes, the camera, or the person behind the camera, not the 4,5/90mm.
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AF focus or green dot is not usable with tilt and shift lenses for obvious reasons,,,
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The D700 was not known to have any of the problems of the D800 with focus, mirror alignment, etc. My first test of the SK was conducted on my deck with the trees about 15' away. Later I did some stitched landscapes which were fine. I repeat: I never had any problems with ANY other lens and that camera body!! I must say I was disappointed with the performance of the SK. Being advertised as a MF lens for 35mm I was expecting better image quality. I will say it is a difficult lens to master as it is completely different than a Nikon PCE. I certainly didn't master it, but I did get it to work. I have since found the first image made with the lens. The focus was on the oak tree in the foreground.
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Interesting experiences, but really hard to tell where the problem lies, mirror box or technique when shooting. Of course your copy could have been defective.
The lens resolves more detail than most lenses can, in fact Lenscore rates it as the 18th most resolving lens for DSLR, and the only non-supertele lenses ahead of it are the 135 APO-Sonnar and both Otuses plus Leica's APO-Summicron and Summilux Aspherical. The 20 most resolving lenses tested isn't exactly a dud league... http://www.lenscore.org/ (http://www.lenscore.org/)
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Comparable to the Apo-Digitar and Apo-Componon HM 4,5/90mm the 90mm T/S is one of the best Schneider lenses for dslr cameras.
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John, You really can't dismiss such a sharp lens and MF lens due to focus problems using the dot for confirmation! Also; The AF sensor is just in proximity to where the AF brackets are shown...
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Interesting list Vilhelm, thanks