NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => What the Nerds Do => Topic started by: Bjørn Rørslett on November 21, 2015, 16:26:55
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I find myself again in wind-beaten Copenhagen, with my friend Erik. We have just returned from the mandatory down-town trip to visit the usual photo stores. Today's purchases included a pristine Nikon 1V1 (to be modified later for use with Rodenstock Heligon 100/1.5 and other exotics) and an unexpected find of an Olympia Sonnar 180 mm f/2.8 .... The latter is currently undergoing the careful surgery of 'Dr. Lens' (ie. Erik) to become an F-mount lens. With CPU of course. There is a Sony A7 and a Nex-3 in the works as well - Erik winced over the heft of my carry-on luggage :D.
I got the 1V1 and the 180 Sonnar for very reasonable prices, by the way.
Stay tuned. The weapons are readied for the upcoming battle.
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Optimistic assumptions about the Sonnar being an easily convertible M42 mount were quickly brought to shame.
Here is the recalcitrant lens - devoid of its mount. With no less than 18 - eighteen - aperture blades, a bokeh king in the making.
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Erik in a commonly seen position at his beloved Dremel work station, whittling away surplus metal from the stubborn 180 Sonnar.
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As usual for these sessions, the report is in near real time. We hope for the best and prepare for the worst (ending with a useless junked lens).
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Love the 1st shot of all those tools!
Say, Bjørn, this procurement of Sony A7 & Nex-3 is unusual !! What is the plan for those?
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The Sony A7 is thought to be a home for my array of Nikkor S (rangefinder) lenses. Already did a walk-around with the Sony and the legendary 8.5 cm f/2 Nikkor (the one made famous by D.Duncan in the Korean war of the early 'fifties). Looks good so far.
The Nex-3, courtesy my friend Jan Anne, will undergo surgery to become a 52 mm thread mount body and thus being able to accept a host of exotic Heligons etc.
Here is the Sony A7 with the 8.5 cm Nikkor side by side with the brand new Leica SL and its 24-90 lens.
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Erik is cutting off more metal from the Sonnar. Currently we only have focus out to approx. 100 m. Iterating towards the final alignment ...
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I meself had thought the Sony flange focal distance might be useful for some older lenses which I picked up for UV use.
I love the idea of having a dedicated camera body for Heligons and such! As the whole idea of the perfect draw goes out the window with such an artistic lens anyway, why not pick up an older digicam for cheaps and just leave the lens permanently mounted? Then one would have a grab-n-go kit. We could not have done this in earlier digital days. Now it is quite feasible. Example: I just recently looked at a Nikon D70 in great condition at KEH in the $60 range. (Don't recall exact price.)
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Andrea: these NEX versions from Sony are prime candidates for such specialised adaptations. The distance from the [new] mount to the sensor is pretty short and allows a lot more flexibility when you plan to use any of the exotics on the camera. For this highly specialised use, avoiding the DSLR is a better approach since you don't have to battle with the mirror chamber.
Erik has finally cut down the Sonnar mount base sufficiently. Hopes for a successful ending rise again.
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Keep going. I love this report (which opens a whole new world to me)
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Some cool projects going on there, have fun amigos ;D
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Andrea: these NEX versions from Sony are prime candidates for such specialised adaptations.
So you do prefer the larger sensor of the NEX over the 1mm shorter flange distance of the Nikon 1?
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Andrea: these NEX versions from Sony are prime candidates for such specialised adaptations. The distance from the [new] mount to the sensor is pretty short and allows a lot more flexibility when you plan to use any of the exotics on the camera. For this highly specialised use, avoiding the DSLR is a better approach since you don't have to battle with the mirror chamber.
Yeah baby - gotta love a short FFD !!!!
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JA: not started the NEX project yet ....
Erik expertly holds the various pieces of the Sonnar together so infinity focus can be assessed on my Df. We are not there yet ... More thinking required.
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So you do prefer the larger sensor of the NEX over the 1mm shorter flange distance of the Nikon 1?
It would depend on the characteristics of the "exotic" in question. For one of my favorite Heligons, sensor quality hardly matters a whit as the lens is scratched and has other endearing weirdness. For some of my non-Nikon mount UV-capable lenses which need a digicam with a fairly short FFD, I would want the Sony sensor quality and features similar to what I get in a Nikon.
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So you do prefer the larger sensor of the NEX over the 1mm shorter flange distance of the Nikon 1?
Not that simple. First, the final register distance depends on what mount we end up with for each camera. Second, if field curvature is horrible, like some of the Heligons exhibit when they are pushed way outside their designated conjugate distances, a smaller sensor can be the very advantageous. Thus there are cases for multiple solutions.
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You are changing the actual mount on the camera?
Have you encountered any mounts for which this cannot be done?
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Of course we intend to change the mount of the camera - it is to be *dedicated* remember ... I have a Panasonic converted to 42 mm thread already, but the sensor quality is questionable.
Not all combinations will work due to the lack of internal structural support of the camera. We have tentatively identified suitable 52 mm thread mounts for the NEX-3 and the 1V1, but only actually opening up the camera will reveal whether the conversion is feasible.
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Getting a 42 or 52 mount would be ideal indeed. The only workable Nikon 1 adapter I've found (39mm, on eBay) is still unnecessarily too long but apparently there is no shorter one available.
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Success !! trust Erik never to give up ...
The Sonnar now has its F-mount provisionally in place and we know it can reach infinity. Final focal adjustments require daylight so will take place tomorrow. Then it'll receive its well-deserved CPU.
We take a break now for dinner. Return later with the first attempts on the mount conversions of 1V1/NEX-3. Eventually we detect whether conversion is at all possible, but first some food and Danish beers.
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It is always interesting to see how far Erik can go in this type of lens modification work with quite simple tools and his Dremel equipment.
One day I will read a post saying that he has acquired a lathe and the tooling to go with it. He will then be very seriously dangerous.... :D :D :D
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Erik solves problems directly. Here he has found the perfect method for adding the F-mount by using a 52 mm male thread ring on the inside as a locking nut for a K2 one the outside. Sealing the inner nut by epoxy glue right here ....
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Next step, after screwing the K2 into its locking nut, is drilling the two holes for the holding screws for the CPU contact block. Using a dedicated jig template ensures these holes are nicely drilled and correctly positioned.
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The last step before the lens mount is completed is adding the CPU and cleaning off any remaining debris. Later I'll program the CPU in situ.
Final adjustment of infinity focus is scheduled for tomorrow. That is, if the sudden blizzard over Copenhagen clears up by then. No way we can find any visible infinity target at present :D
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Next out is the NEX-3 that is to receive a 52 mm thread mount. Here the camera is bereaved its factory mount with the Sony A7 as a shocked witness.
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After some deliberations, the NEX-3 got its dedicated 52 mm thread mount. Needless to say, the mount now is *no longer* the weakest point of the camera ! The holding screws are sunk deep enough to stay clear of the threads. If we later need to know the position of the lens release pin, a pilot hole marks this in front.
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The Rodenstock Heligon 100 mm f/1.5 now sits securely into the 52 mm threads of the NEX-3 camera. Most of my exotic lenses have at least an intermediary 52 mm thread somewhere in their adapter stack, so basically this size will allow all of them to mount.
We both conclude this has been a perfect day despite the inclement weather outside :D. Now time for relaxation, reading a good book, and in due time, some sleep until we start all over again tomorrow.
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I slept peacefully through a blizzard over Copenhagen that dumped up to half a metre of wet snow over the poor city. In the early morning hours, the 180 Sonar is finalised as far as focusing adjustments go and its CPU is installed and correct metering verified.
However, we also have a plastic bag of Nikon Df parts that constitutes a 3-D puzzle. Have to ask Erik over morning coffee what to do about that ....
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This is what remains of my first Nikon Df camera. Interesting array of parts and not easy to see how it eventually might fit together to form a complete camera !!
Everything, down to the last minute screw, is contained inside that sturdy plastic bag ... A true 3-D puzzle for the keen enthusiast.
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Oh well - that bagful of Df parts has to wait for a bleaker day ...
Now, on to modification of the pristine 1V1 I got yesterday. The new battery for the camera costs more than what I paid for the whole outfit so I for one won't complain. A perfect victim for nerds like myself & Erik.
Here Erik is contemplating a suitable 52 mm thread mount for the 1V1.
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The replacement mount is found acceptable. Now, Erik deftly centres the original mount onto the new one so the mounting holes will align perfect when new holes are drilled.
Also evident is the sturdy inner metal frame of the 1V1. Not flimsy like the NEX-3 we did yesterday.
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We realised the new mount could be seated 1 mm deeper into the camera body if the rear flange is machined away - it is not required anyway for this project. Erik gives it a go on his work station.
(for new readers: this report is *near* real time - we honestly don't know how the conversion will pan out in the end. A collateral entertainment as it were)
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The new mounting holes are drilled and properly sunk. However, the old mount screws are too short. Erik browses through our camera screw supply in order to locate better ones.
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As long as you guys are having fun :)
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You know how this works, Jakov :D Fun is 100% guaranteed for us nerds.
Meanwhile, proper screws are found and the new 52mm thread mount is in place. Very discreet in black too.
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A host of new possibilities opens up with this mount. For example, I can now use my various Ultra-Micro-Nikkors on the modified 1V1 !!
A quick shot with the Ultra-Micro-Nikkor 28 mm f/1.8 @ f/1.8 to prove the point.
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Great fun seeing this develop! Based on my background from the AW1, don't you need a cpu that at least mimics the FT-1? AW1 is not happy if nothing is attached (locks up with lens not attached message), but with FT-1 it does not care, and it will meter and do everything except aperture and focus control of course.
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Is a standard step ring or a Cokin adapter study enough as new mount? Or did you use something stronger?
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I like your wokshop pictures at lot
what did you do to your DF?
Now we are at least 3 persons with F mount Olympia Sonnar
in the forum
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Thomas: my Df crashed ...
Bruno: depends on the step ring quality. Avoid the flimsiest models and you should be just fine.
Øivind: both V and AW1 will work in 'M' mode without locking up, but for V1, no zoom of the finder view is possible. We're looking into the possibility of butchering a superfluous 10 mm to get contacts etc., but need to trace the signal wiring.
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I find myself again in wind-beaten Copenhagen, with my friend Erik. We have just returned from the mandatory down-town trip to visit the usual photo stores.
Just curious what shops you are visiting in Copenhagen to find such cheap gems?
This summer I visited "One Of Many Cameras" on Gråbrødre Torv for the first time - didn't know of their existence until then. That's a great shop for nerds run by nerds - they have quite a lot of classic film gear as well as digital. I ended up buying a used Fuji XF 60 macro at a reasonable price.
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This was Photografica on Skindergade. The 'One of many cameras' shop is usually on the itinerary but due to bad weather, we abbreviated the downtown stroll that day. I did purchase my second Df (still alive) there some months ago, though.
Meanwhile I'm writing this, Erik has CPU-modified his latest acquisition, a truly pristine Nikkor ED 180 mm f/2.8 and has commenced destroying my Tamron 21 mm f/4.5. The latter has a very unusual mount and in order to get it properly operating on my dedicated UV camera (D3200 with built-in Baader filter), we decided aperture automation had to go.
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Let me walk you through the modification of Erik's 180.
First, trim the lens bayonet so its thickness is within the required range (0.8 to 0.9 mm). Most old mounts are more or less there already whilst the newer AIS ones need to be trimmed. Holes for the fixing screws for the contact block have already been drilled using a jig template.
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Then, cut out the "footprint" of the CPU block from the stray light baffle.
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Assemble the CPU and contact block and put it into place, securing with dedicated screws.
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The CPU must be programmed according to its host lens specifications.
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Erik checks with the lens on his D3X that metering is perfect. He made a big smile so yes, it is ship-shape.
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We're almost working along concurrent lines here. Erik is modifying a 42 mm focusing helicoid to allow use of the CRT Nikkor 55 mm f/1.2 and the Ultra-Micro-Nikkor 55 mm f/2 on the 1V1 and AW1 cameras. Both will hopefully focus to infinity (remains to be seen after the modification process is completed. I submersed myself into UV wide-angles and the 21 mm f/4.5 Tamron in particular. The completed Tamron shown below with the specialised Nikon D3200 that has a UV bandpass filter inside.
I just verified the Tamron now works perfectly in UV, focuses to infinity, and exports all its CPU data properly to file EXIF. A big step forward for alternative explorations and discoveries of the UV world.
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Getting a 42 or 52 mount would be ideal indeed. The only workable Nikon 1 adapter I've found (39mm, on eBay) is still unnecessarily too long but apparently there is no shorter one available.
Bruno, BORG makes a fairly thin Nikon 1 adapter:
http://www.tomytec.co.jp/borg/products/partsDetail/summary/468
It has a 49.8mm/7.5P thread on the other side in which a thin BORG 49.8 to 42mm adapter fits. BORG makes a similar adapter for m4/3, too.
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And this is 49.8 to 42mm/1.0P adapter ring.
Sorry to highjack the thread. Please go back to the original topic.
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Great. Thanks a lot, Akira.
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Great write up Bjørn, can only chime in and say so far we have been blessed with all parts fitting together according to Bjørn's ideas of all of how to fit all the bits and pieces together :D
Now the long dark winter evenings can be used trying to see why Nikons workshop could not get the Df 3D puzzle to work :o ::) And a PN11 in a bag btw...
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We combined a CX-C mount adapter which is very slim with a cut-down 42 mm focusing helicoid to come up with a suitable adapter for my CRT-Nikkor 55 mm f/1.2 lens, plus for the Ultra-Micro-Nikkors 55 mm f/2 and 28 mm f/1.8, respectively. However, only the CRT will focus to infinity. No big deal as infinity focus means these lenses are way outside their designated conjugate distances and the image quality takes a sharp nosedive simultaneously. Still, it is fun to use such a fast lens as the 55/1.2 CRT in this manner and get in-camera softening added to its supersharp image core.
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"Now the long dark winter evenings can be used trying to see why Nikons workshop could not get the Df 3D puzzle to work :o ::) And a PN11 in a bag btw..."
I'm liberal-minded when it comes to depositing bags of camera stuff at Erik's doorsteps ... Given he now lives in a Buddhist Study Centre, perhaps the added Zen atmosphere comes in handy to sort the bits and pieces ??
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He he, I'm sure the Df will enhance my meditation skills 8)
We are now off to a small tour of our houses - I'm sure Bjørn will be surprised how the rest of the place looks like... ;D
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Wow Bjørn! You've certainly kept Erik busy :D
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Mike, you can simply click REPLY button and click "Insert Quote" at the top right of each previous post displayed below the typing window while typing your reply.
Thanks Akira
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The two special-mount (52 mm thread) Erik created from a V1 and NEX-3, respectively, already have been taken into use for very exotic lenses. Also, I finally got a focusing mount for my 55 CRT f/1.2 Nikkor that allows infinity focus.
Here is the mighty Oude Delft Rayxar 65 mm f/0.75 on a NEX-3. This huge, and heavy, lens completely dwarfs the camera. After some trial and error I decided to fix focus to about 50 cm (up to 5 m is possible) in order to have a maximum covered frame in the camera.
The snapshot of the NEX-3 with the Rayxar is taken with the CRT 55 on its modified mount. The CRT is very sharp used in such a manner.
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You have created a monster :)
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It's a beauty ;D
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I suppose it handles easily and is not front heavy ;D
I can hardly wait to see the Rayxar results!
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Thankyou Eric
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Good to see that my old NEX C3 found a new use, thanks for sharing these images ;D
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A little belated response, but I would really like to see some image(s) from Ultra-Miccro-Nikkor 28/1.8...
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It will take some time to re-familiarise myself with the Ultra-Micro-Nikkors, but here is a sample of what the UM 28/1.8 can deliver. This lens is of course sharp beyond sharp.
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Great topic ! Thanks for showing and explaining it all.
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It will take some time to re-familiarise myself with the Ultra-Micro-Nikkors, but here is a sample of what the UM 28/1.8 can deliver. This lens is of course sharp beyond sharp.
Bjørn, thanks. This is literally pin-sharp! Since you haven't really used UMN 28/1.8 on the newly modified camera, I guess the image was taken with the lens reversed? It looks like a high magnification image of some sort of crystal?
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Correct. Ice crystals by cross-polarised light. 10X which is the stated optimum for this lens if used in reverse.
On the 1V1, the projected image of the 28/1.8 in normal position is just barely adequate in size and even at f/8, there is slight corner vignetting. Sharpness and contrast are top drawer of course as befitting the 'Ultra-Micro' designation.
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That's well understandable. According to Mr. Akiyama's website, the image circle of the 28/1.7 is 8mm. The image circle of 28/1.8 would not be that different.
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Akira asked for images with the Ultra-Micro 28 mm f/1.8 in its normal position. The optimal reproduction ratio should be 1:10, but in order to avoid the worst of vignetting, I set the lens to 1:5 instead. Also note this lens is designed for the e-line of the spectrum, ie. around 540 nm. So the outcome for visible light with the lens mounted on V1 [52 mm mount] is *not* optimum, but given the initial ultra high performance, one should still expect a decent image.
Food for thought that Kodak, in the last death throes of the company, tried to expand into the digital domain ignored by them just a little earlier ...
Nikon 1V1 (52m mount), Ultra-Micro-Nikkor 28 mm f/1.8, ISO 100, f/5.6, studio flash
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Thanks, Bjørn. Even it is set outside of the designed range, the sharpness and the absence of LoCA can be well worth cherishing.