NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on November 20, 2015, 13:32:16
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There is a UV Nikkor 105mm currently on ebay which has been massively modified / tampered with,
yet the seller is unwilling to warn potential buyers, although I have exchanged a lot with him, incl.
presenting him proof.
It is even unclear if the main optics are still the same and included, as he is unwilling to deliver proof
that it takes images. He has proven though (to me), that focus blocks at 5 meters and cannot be set
to infinity when mounted to a camera body.
Left is my lens, right the modified one by that seller. Note the protruding rear dark metal part.
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Strange. That lens to the right definitively is not the standard edition.
I fail to understand why such a modification was performed, though.
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Strange. That lens to the right definitively is not the standard edition.
I fail to understand why such a modification was performed, though.
It may have been used in an optic lab etc. or was built into a special imaging system,
I have seen such before. How far that mod went, what it does, if it is still working for
photographic multispectral purposes and if it is still parfocal (!!) is highly questionable.
I've seen this lens being used as a collimating optic where a parfocal beam was needed
for UV-VIS-NIR and also for scientific multispectral image amplification systems.
Certainly not a modification Nikon has done. I never heard of them doing such.
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The additional part appears to contain a rear filter. It should be easy to assume that it was modified for a special purpose and mounted on a certain dedicated imaging apparatus without the reflex mirror.
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Is this lens still on eBay, Klaus? I searched for it and couldn't find it anywhere. The only UV-Nikkor found is from a European vendor and appears to be in perfect factory condition. Price is very high, though, so potential customers should consult Sevenoaks.com or similar sources for a Rayfact UV 105 lens. The Rayfact might be cheaper ...
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Is this lens still on eBay, Klaus? I searched for it and couldn't find it anywhere. The only UV-Nikkor found is from a European vendor and appears to be in perfect factory condition. Price is very high, though, so potential customers should consult Sevenoaks.com or similar sources for a Rayfact UV 105 lens. The Rayfact might be cheaper ...
sevenoaks.com seems to be a hedge fund. Did you mean http://www.company7.com ?
EDIT: Yes. My bad memory.
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I don't know the current avarage price of UV 105, but when I asked a couple of dealers about the price of Rayfact UV 105 several years ago, their quotes were around 550,000 JPY.
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I don't know the current avarage price of UV 105, but when I asked a couple of dealers about the price of Rayfact UV 105 several years ago, their quotes were around 550,000 JPY.
My last info was around JPY630.000, so depending on exchange rates and import taxes, plus seller markup end up at around $6.000 for a new one in box with warranty(!!)
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Seller just informed me that it was attached to a Crime Scene UV System which obviously was modified by the maker to suit their individual needs.
As it was purely used for UV, I'm pretty sure the optics added or modified destroyed its perfect parfocality!
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Then the rear filter could be 1.25" Baadar U...
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Then the rear filter could be 1.25" Baadar U...
Akira, I know we are all getting older and eyesight dwindles, but I cannot see a filter, rather a lens.
Mr Baader's Venus filter invention actually made reflected UV imaging possible at high quality, so
personally I think he deserves the correct spelling of his name ;-)
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Akira, I know we are all getting older and eyesight dwindles, but I cannot see a filter, rather a lens.
Mr Baader's Venus filter invention actually made reflected UV imaging possible at high quality, so
personally I think he deserves the correct spelling of his name ;-)
Klaus, I see a flat opaque thingie in the rear part of the modified UV Nikkor whose image you posted above. The flat thingie is apparently fixed with the retaining ring with two tiny holes into which a popular tool can be sticked to tighten or loosen.
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Klaus, I see a flat opaque thingie in the rear part of the modified UV Nikkor whose image you posted above. The flat thingie is apparently fixed with the retaining ring with two tiny holes into which a popular tool can be sticked to tighten or loosen.
You may be right, but actually that looks like a conventional lens mount to me, so personally I would guess it is some sort of Barlow or Smithe lens which has been added to the optical path, especially since it moves with changing the focus.
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Klaus - thank you for the heads up on this lens both here and on UVP (via Alex). ;D
It appears that the Ebay ad has been expanded to include info about the forensic addition.
I thought I would post my correspondence with the seller for everyone to see.
At this point I do not think there was any intent to mislead, just lack of knowledge about an original UV-Nikkor.
Andrea:
(...asks about the lens...)
Seller:
Are you referring to the view on the pictures that show extended optics when the lens is on an infinity setting? It does mount to a Nikon camera with no problem (see attached photo) but because it was used with forensic equipment it may have had an additional piece added on the back of the lens that doesn't allow for the full infinity setting when used on a camera without an adapter. I have another person who owns a UV Nikkor UV105 F/4.5 who mentioned that as well. If it is a problem I will either add that information to the listing or remove the listing until I get further clarification.
Andrea:
Thank you for the quick response.
Yes, I think you should explain the addition on the rear of the lens. Your listing raised a "red flag" on my website UltravioletPhotography.com because this lens did not "look right" to those of us who own it. Our members would want to understand why there was something extra on this lens and how it affected focus. Also, do you know whether that extra piece is removeable?
Thanks again -
Andrea Blum
UltravioletPhotography.com
Seller:(bolding is from Andrea)
I have added the revisions to the listing as well as a picture of it mounted on my Nikon camera. I.was told by a man who owns an original that he could remove whatever it is on their that may have been added but Sirchie (the company who makes the Ruvis forensic equipment that it was attached to) told me this morning that it is very unlikely that they ordered it altered from the factory. Since it is from one of their early products they don't know for sure. They now sell their product with a UV60mm lens (probably a Canon).
Added to the Ebay post. The red lettering is from the seller, not me. Bolding is mine.
On Nov-20-15 at 10:40:14 PST, seller added the following information:
Special Note: This lens was used with a Sirchie Ruvis Krimesite Scope for police forensic use and it comes with a Nikon F - C adapter to fit on the Krimesite Scope that it attaches too. It will fit a regular F mount Nikon, but because I have shown the images with the lens focus set to infinity a couple of watchers have suggested that it will not allow for the full infinity setting when used on a camera without an adapter. I apologize for not putting this in the original listing details but I was not aware of any potential problem. I have updated the listing to include a photo of the lens mounted on my Nikon camera without an adapter, and have added a picture of the F - C adapter as well. If you have already bid on this not knowing this onformation and want to cancel the bid I will certainly understand.
Marlatt Media
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As I wrote on UVP, I've never seen a UV-Nikkor in recent years under an open bid, so this might be a chance to get a UV-Nikkor for under the going rate if the forensic addition does not put you off. I'm thinking it could likely be removed and the UV-Nikkor remounted if necessary?
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Guess I really regret having brought this up, the only person who benefits from this now is that seller ....
Unfortunately, the seller did not correctly add what he found out by his own tests he made (initiated by me) and the photos he provided, that the lens in its currently state CANNOT FOCUS TO INFINITY ANYMORE and actually blocks the mirror box at a closest possible focus setting of about 5 meters.
This is what I have also written to him:
I am of the opinion now after quite some research, that your lens has been adapted and modified to fit the needs of that specific RUVIS system made by or for SIRCHIE. I actually doubt that it could be used “as is”, as the optical path and function has been modified for reflected UV photography only AND for it being used with a image amplification tube or plate, which has a smaller entrance pupil of 18mm.
In other words, the lens
a) lost its ability to focus to infinity
b) lost its parfocality (i.e. UV, VIS and IR image are not in the same plane of focus anymore
c) lost its ability to cover a full frame sensor and most likely also APS, but has a very reduced images size now
The seller has also confirmed, the there is no filter built in on the rear, rather an optical element. I have asked him to conduct another experiment which will confirm a) - c) and I will report about it.
Further he already has a quite high bid on it (off ebay), so that one won't come cheap, so don't hold your breath on that one...
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Well, Klaus, I think you did good. If you had not mentioned the mount addition to everyone, then the seller would not have put up the information about the forensic mount. Now that everyone is fully informed, they can make up their own mind. Who knows, it might be a good purchase for someone.
With an adaptor it could couldn't it easily be used on a Sony or Panasonic body?
EDIT: Added the question mark.
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Well, Klaus, I think you did good. If you had not mentioned the mount addition to everyone, then the seller would not have put up the information about the forensic mount. Now that everyone is fully informed, they can make up their own mind. Who knows, it might be a good purchase for someone.
With an adaptor it could easily be used on a Sony or Panasonic body.
I'm not sure where you take your assumptions from, not even knowing how much that rear part protrudes and what it actually does optically. Please re-read what I have posted, I have just added a few more infos, especially on the possible selling price. It won't come cheap, that's for sure and with the "added benefit" of not knowing if it could be put back into original state. Remember: there are no original parts anymore at Nikon. I tried that a few times, but all is gone there, even at Nikon Japan.
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That was supposed to be a question not an assumption. You posted as I was making my edit. "-)
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That was supposed to be a question not an assumption. You posted as I was making my edit. "-)
With my very limited knowledge of English, wouldn't you have written then "With an adaptor could it be easily used on a Sony or Panasonic body?" ;)
But anyway, he is currently conducting a test, so we'll know soon (if he does it correctly)...
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? Not sure what you are asking ? I did write exactly what you wrote ?
Please don't pick at me - I'm trying to support you.
oh well.......
Anyway, here is a patent link to one of the Sirchie devices: http://www.google.com/patents/US6636701 (http://www.google.com/patents/US6636701)
Perhaps someone can find something useful in that.
EDIT. oh foo & poo. dyslexia struck - i see what you mean. need to reverse words. i read it 50 times over and failed to see i did not reverse. sigh. i do not really have dyslexia, just sometimes we don't see what we write, right? sigh.
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Remember: there are no original parts anymore at Nikon. I tried that a few times, but all is gone there, even at Nikon Japan.
Really? UV 105 is still in the catalog of Tochigi Nikon. If I understand correctly, this is essentially a reproduction of the original UV-Nikkor. The internal parts and/or construction might have been revised like the Ais 55/2.8, though. Or, the optical elements might have been slightly redesigned to comply RoHS.
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Seller now added:
One of the people who commented on this who has the same lens said there has been an additional optic of some sort added to the rear of my lens which may have been for a specific use in the police forensic work. Because of that when the lens is on a Nikon camera with no adapter the focus blocks at about a 5 meter setting.
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he is currently conducting a test, so we'll know soon (if he does it correctly)...
Well, the optical properties of the lens have been significantly altered, the back focus is now around 90-110mm sellers reports,
so I guess some lens element(s) have been inserted. This also means, that
- no sharp image can be projected to a standard camera sensor as is.
- parfocaility UV-VIS-NIR has been destroyed, as most likely simple quartz lenses have been used for that (as this Sirchie RUVIS system was fur UV only)
Looking at the patent data (thanks Anfdrea!), this assumption seems to be valid, as the use of a mirror beam splitter demands a much longer optical path for that.
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*** The seller pulled the auction listing ***
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Lens has been inspected by a knowledgeable service tech and indeed had an optical element
attached at the rear side, seemingly a quartz lens.
*** The lens has already been sold now ***