NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Michael Erlewine on September 11, 2015, 16:24:26
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The work of Solvin Zankle has been discussed on photography forums almost as much as the thread “Is Kenny G Jazz?” No one seems to know. Here is some of his work.
http://solvinzankl.photoshelter.com/gallery/Wide-view-macro/G0000Xj5NXkE1giM
I would like to ask here whether any of our very talented lensmen have any ideas of what kind of lens-setup it would take to get this close and still have infinity sharp or sharp enough.
Your thoughts please?
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A borescope?
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A borescope?
Can you point to a borescope that might work?.
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I don't think a borescope was needed, although if the snakes were venomous I'd prefer one... a long one.
All of the images were shot with a very wide angle lens and many of them show the telltale signs of a fisheye. Some fisheyes focus very close without help and a short extension ring could be used to focus even closer.
Nice images.
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All of the images were shot with a very wide angle lens and many of them show the telltale signs of a fisheye. Some fisheyes focus very close without help and a short extension ring could be used to focus even closer.
I question this. I have both Nikon 16mm rectangular fisheye lenses (and a circular fisheye) and I have no extension that will work that will also give me the infinity (or near to it) that is in some of those photos. SO, it may be a special fisheye with no extension. Any other ideas?
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In the front page provided by your link he explains, that he modified a wide angle lens. This could mean inserting some kind of custom extension to the mount.
Is it given he is shooting Nikon? I could not find info about his gear by glancing. And while his camera could be a Nikon, the modified lens can be of any make.
I still strongly feel many of the shots were taken with a fisheye. I can be wrong though.
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I understand. It could be a fisheye with a specially-made extension. The smallest extension Nikon offers is the K-1 Ring, which is 5.8mm. As you know, wide-angle lenses and especially fisheyes take very, very little extension without blowing up. I am looking into getting a tinnier extension made. And he may have stacked the image, as it suggest on that opening page.
But I believe that is what happens. The only other thing, which is very impractical, would be to do all this in post, based on merging a stacked image with a background image, but I see no signs of that in the photos I have seen. Since his backgrounds are blurry, I believe it is a really small extension on something like the Nikon 16mm fisheye. Maybe nfoto will have some ideas.
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On some of the photos it is obvious that a fish-eye was used, but not on all of them.
I am not even sure whether he used an extension ring at all since fish-eyes and super wide angles have a rather short minimal focussing distance?
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OK. I ran out in the back yard and took a quick photo. Imagine there is a big bug in the flower in the lower-right corner. That’s the setup. Now, what I would like is to be a little closer. As it is, I am “all in” with the Nikon 16mm Fisheye. What would do that is a very slim extension, smaller than the slimmest I have, which is the K-1 Ring at 5.8mm.
Next, I would probably want to carefully stack the photo, at least the flower part. The focus ring on the Nikko 16mm Fisheye is almost nothing, so I might want to put the camera/lens on a fine focus-rail and have a more fine focus, if that is possible.
I think that would solve the problem, (1) a little closer and (2) a stacked image.
Thoughts?
One problem is that with auto-focus lenses like the Nikkon 16mm Fisheye, I am not sure you can add a K-Ring, because of messing with the connections. Can someone clarify that for me and what would I have to do to an extension to get around that?
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I think the effective focal length here is very short, but the angle of view not necessary super wide. One notes that the perspective is steep (implying a short focal length and short distance), however, this is not true 'macro' merely close-ups. So perhaps a suitable cine (or similar) lens around 4 mm focal length in conjunction with a relay lens could do the trick.
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Wide angle – I learned to rethink when I started to use Large Format optics – my beloved Schneider has a 15cm images circle at infinity and f=11, which is perfectly usable with the D600, if you stack you can use 5.6 or 8.0 on any body.
"Image Circle" in Schneider terms means: "at least 90 lines per mm". If you have a non moving target you get super high res plus potentially any DOF you wish for (as in "painting focus" – I love that trerm)
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I think the effective focal length here is very short, but the angle of view not necessary super wide. One notes that the perspective is steep (implying a short focal length and short distance), however, this is not true 'macro' merely close-ups. So perhaps a suitable cine (or similar) lens around 4 mm focal length in conjunction with a relay lens could do the trick.
How would you approach getting into the ballpark of the kind of photos that Solvin Zankle does. I am not interested in imitating what he does, but I would like to realize some of my own images with that kind of closeness. I am sorry I don't know much about combining lenses, etc. I know that my Nikkor Repro lens is a relay lens. I guess I would need some help here, if you would be kind enough to explain what I need. I have a bunch of lenses, most of them ones you recommended in one way or another.
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The limit is that near focus has to be at least 4*focal length, so if a steep perspective is required, the actual focal length also must be short.
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To add another uninitiated comment: These photos push expectation ove a certain limit. I understand perfectly well why your interest has been awoken
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A modern version of Lennart Nilsson, the Swedish photographer who pioneered the ultra-steep perspective.
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How would you approach getting into the ballpark of the kind of photos that Solvin Zankle does. I am not interested in imitating what he does, but I would like to realize some of my own images with that kind of closeness. I am sorry I don't know much about combining lenses, etc. I know that my Nikkor Repro lens is a relay lens. I guess I would need some help here, if you would be kind enough to explain what I need. I have a bunch of lenses, most of them ones you recommended in one way or another.
Can you give me, please, a worked example of all the parts I would need to take photos of a subject (like a bug) up close in the manner I pointed out? And how they fit together. I have a lot of odd lenses, as you may imagine.
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The lenses used should be of these kinds:
http://www.koheisha.net/bugseyelenses.html
The texts are all in Japanese, but hopefully the bunch of images would offer the general image of the special optics.
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These are how the contraption is assembled. The main optical parts are a CCTV lens as object lens, a microscope lens as relay lens (which magnifies the small image circle of a CCTV lens) and a light gathering optical section.
http://www.koheisha.net/microwidelenz/setumei03.html
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OK. I ran out in the back yard and took a quick photo. Imagine there is a big bug in the flower in the lower-right corner. That’s the setup. Now, what I would like is to be a little closer. As it is, I am “all in” with the Nikon AF 16mm Fisheye.
The AF 16mm fisheye already focuses fairly close. Try removing the rear bayonet filter, that will get you a little closer.
Otherwise, there is the Sigma 15mm fisheye which focuses to 0.15m (6") for 1:4 magnification, this is significantly closer than the Nikon 16mm.
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Can you point to a borescope that might work?.
Sorry, maybe my terminology was incorrect. I was talking about the sort of contraption that is shown in Akira's link. I thought that I had seen it called borescope somewhere. It's not the type of borescope that your doctor uses to get images of your stomach though.
I do not have any personal experience with these.
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The AF 16mm fisheye already focuses fairly close. Try removing the rear bayonet filter, that will get you a little closer.
Otherwise, there is the Sigma 15mm fisheye which focuses to 0.15m (6") for 1:4 magnification, this is significantly closer than the Nikon 16mm.
Thanks Roland. As usual, you are a fountain of valuable information. Thank you for all the the work you have done. We are both archivists. Your lens, etc. database is invaluable. As for me, with the help of a large staff, I archived all recorded music from 10" records onward, as well as all known movies/film, and all major rock n' roll concert posters, etc.
There is a new lens by a Chinese company called Venus, a 15mm 1:1 macro called Venus Optics Laowa 15mm f/4 Macro Lens for Nikon F. This lens goes close, 4.72" (12 cm), which should be very helpful. Another idea that was proposed by a fellow photographer was the use of chroma Key for these ultra-wide (deep) nature photos. In fact, this person ran tests on the work of Solvin Zankle and they show that his photos are composites, probably most easily done with chroma key. So there are two very useful approaches to deep macro/close-up work.
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Here is my own setup, centred around a cine lens of short focal length (an old Canon 6.5 mm, do note its angle of view is not very wide despite the 6.5 mm because its covering formal is small), an intermediate lens to relay the image to the taking camera (here I used 19 mm f/2.8 Macro-Nikkor, but a microscope lens of similar specification would do as well and likely be much cheaper), and the usual bits and pieces of step rings, focusing helicoids, lens mounts and whatnots.
The last incarnation even has a CPU implemented and support for using a ring flash that comes in handy for hand-held close-ups. The rig is able to focus to infinity.
Do not get fooled by having a short lens, the depth of field is not that great once you come close. But the main advantage from my point of view is that by having a very unusual steep perspective, the illusion of a great depth of field prevails.
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A few examples follow.
The last one, showing infinity focus, used a reversed 24 Nikkor as a relay.
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Thanks Bjørn! However, as usual I am initially intimidated by all the parts. I don't have the 19mm Macro-Nikkor, but I have the other three. Perhaps you can say more about how relay lenses work and the order in which these parts all go together. That would help.
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Tried some of that stuff in 2009:
(http://m2.i.pbase.com/o3/08/747708/1/117117812.DgFDsNlC.scope_9070370a_c.jpg)
(http://m4.i.pbase.com/o3/08/747708/1/117117814.ulIHAzFp.scope_9070357a_c.jpg)
(http://m7.i.pbase.com/o2/08/747708/1/117613527.GvS4gDaa.P9220182q_c.jpg)
(http://m5.i.pbase.com/o2/08/747708/1/117613405.Jz322E3w.P9220195q_c.jpg)
[yep, this is me in his eyes...]
(Borescope + relay lens + aux. lens to have an upright image)
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[yep, this is me in his eyes...]
Thats a very cool Selfie Klaus :)
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Thats a very cool Selfie Klaus :)
Yep, he was very patient with me and allowed me to come quite close ;-)
Maybe he felt that frog legs are not part of my diet....