NikonGear'23
The NikonGear Office => Site Issues => Topic started by: ColinM on April 10, 2024, 10:11:44
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Birna's message today was the first time I thought to check mine.
I'd had no reminder that mine was overdue and nothing was collected automatically.
I wonder if this part of the issue with having enough paid supporters?
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It happened to me too. I didn't notice the color change in my name. I take that as the big teller in the future but having an automatic renewal as an option can be done?
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I don't remember how I did it but my subscription is renewing automatically.
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I don't remember how I did it but my subscription is renewing automatically.
I think I did via PayPal
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Just renewed my subscription, which expired yesterday.
Wouldn't notice without Birna's post.
Renewed using same payment option, PayPal. But this had to be done manually.
Either automatic renewal, or an email telling me my subscription is about to expire would be convenient...
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I think I did via PayPal
I'm using Paypal indeed.
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Just to confirm, automatic renewal via PayPal isn't happening for everyone
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I set my subscription to renew automatically, and use PayPal. Everything works as intended, and has done so for many years. I think it's only fair, even for Admins, to subscribe, as I use NG on a daily basis.
Thus, if your subscription didn't renew, was it set up for automatic renewal?
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I didn't see anything that said automatic renewal ... just paid it manually
Thanks for the reminder
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...if your subscription didn't renew, was it set up for automatic renewal?
There's nothing on the subscriptions screen to set this.
Just the single option to "order"
When I get to the PayPal screen, there are no other options than to just pay this current amount
I didn't see anything that said automatic renewal ... just paid it manually
Others seem to find the same
Maybe this needs some changes?
Leaving up to individual members means at least some will forget
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Or just add a new task Nikon Gear Yearly Fee in your agenda with yearly reminder.
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I received the reminder a good month ago and yesterday experienced no difficulty manually paying through PayPal.
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Or just add a new task Nikon Gear Yearly Fee in your agenda with yearly reminder.
Easy enough
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Good reminder to renew - I think I caught it pretty quickly after it had expired this time around, but calendar reminder now created.
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I recently also paid manually - without any issues.
I paid a little early due to some impending leave and the system correctly carried the old expiry date forward into 2025. All good.
I didn't see anything that said automatic renewal ... just paid it manually
Thanks for the reminder
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We seems still to lose members :'(
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The annual fee should be discussed, raise it to €25,-
and ask everyone to consider a bit of feedback on contributors' posts,
such engagement may attract supporters!
Ole!
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Yes - sadly.
The subscription is fairly modest - it could be higher and still be of good value.
We seems still to lose members :'(
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I agree about the subscription fee. I'd be willing to pay more.
Perhaps there could be a next level for more subscription fee. Personally, i don't need that to have more priviledges, i just don't want this nice little internet place to vanish and i'm much willing to pay my share (i'd find €50/y quite reasonable).
With a "layered" subscription model, at least people have the choice to pay what they want or can bare.
I do know Birna was adament and adamant (had to look that up) that the fee would not be raised, but in this fashion there won't be any forum anymore soon :(
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Good idea from HNS, I would be happy to pay more.
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Sorry, HCS
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Same for me, I would not object to an increase. I understand Birna’s position but there is at least a need to cover for inflation.
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The annual fee should be discussed, raise it to €25,-
and ask everyone to consider a bit of feedback on contributors' posts,
such engagement may attract supporters!
Ole!
Yes!
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I would be happy to pay more. I know some people created idle secondary acounts just to circumvent Birna's reluctance to raise prices.
My Subscription is auto renew
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Idea
Woldn't it be nice if Birna sent out a message to people who dropped out during the last weeks and politely ask if they accidentially cancelled or willingly?
We lost 20 subscribers within a very short while. I guess most are not even aware of the fact
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I would still happily become a subscriber but I'm still not going to setup a Paypal account.
As I wrote elsewhere on NG a while ago, it should be possible to pay using Visa via Paypal without having a Paypal account - I've just tried that scenario again but I'm still being forced to create a Paypal account as part of such a transaction.
I found some info on the subject that suggested it could be related to the payment transaction is setup for recurring payment by the web-shop - if that is the case on NG, could you check with Paypal if that could be the issue and, if so, setup an additional payment option that accepts a credit card payment without a Paypal account (i.e. not a subscription - I'll try to remember paying each year!).
Maybe a relevant detail for Paypal: I'm in Denmark.
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Add me to the list of people who would gladly pay more to preserve this oasis in cyberspace.
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We lost 20 subscribers within a very short while. I guess most are not even aware of the fact
I agree Frank.
I think this is as big an issue as the amount we pay.
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When the subscription is expired, the name displayed in the top left corner of your own post should turn from orange to brown. Even though the difference is rather a bit subtle, chances should be that you notice that your subscription is expired.
I would be willing to pay more for the subscription., even though the value of JPY has been falling down drastically. However, I basically try to keep the subscriptions with the automatic renewal as little as possible, because the subscription will "stop automatically" when something happens to me.
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A sound idea would be adding a « normal » bank account number. With the normalized IBAN account structuring, payments (even international) became very easy. I’m using less and less intermediaries such as credit cards, PayPal and the like, by making straight payments directly from one of my bank accounts.
Automatic renewals are a definite NO GO for me.
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When the subscription is expired, the name displayed in the top left corner of your own post should turn from orange to brown.
On my tablet, it looks black rather than brown
However I still think this is a little too subtle Akira
I rarely look out for my own posts
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A sound idea would be adding a « normal » bank account number. With the normalized IBAN account structuring, payments (even international) became very easy. I’m using less and less intermediaries such as credit cards, PayPal and the like, by making straight payments directly from one of my bank accounts.
Automatic renewals are a definite NO GO for me.
I was thinking about that too but the country of origin of the NG account is important. It is indeed straightforward within EU with no transaction fee added, but it can be different outside EU. For example the transaction fee to UK from Belgium is prohibitive for small amounts. I also once did a transfer to a (small) bank account in US and it was a nightmare to do.
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On my tablet, it looks black rather than brown
However I still think this is a little too subtle Akira
I rarely look out for my own posts
I don't think it is as effective as, say, the notification message either. But it is better than nothing at least, and I use the function to make sure if the subscription is in effect.
I was thinking about that too but the country of origin of the NG account is important. It is indeed straightforward within EU with no transaction fee added, but it can be different outside EU. For example the transaction fee to UK from Belgium is prohibitive for small amounts. I also once did a transfer to a (small) bank account in US and it was a nightmare to do.
I'm not against the Christian's suggestion, but the same goes with the transaction from Japan through my Japanese bank account. The imposed fee is violently expensive compared to PayPal.
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My alternative might not work in every situation / country. From Switzerland most international transactions are settled for 1 CHF / €. Counterparties might have to pay hefty transaction fees in connection with credit cards. Simply proposing the aforementioned alternative.
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...However I still think this is a little too subtle Akira
I rarely look out for my own posts
Could the forum software be convinced to display the user name in the upper right corner of the screen with a color indicating the supporter status?
Then it would be easier to keep track of the supporter status without looking at own posts.
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Could the forum software be convinced to display the user name in the upper right corner of the screen with a color indicating the supporter status?
Then it would be easier to keep track of the supporter status without looking at own posts.
Good idea.
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The 'User online' footing on the forum page shows this information already.
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... I know some people created idle secondary acounts just to circumvent Birna's reluctance to raise prices.
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Didn't know about that, great suggestion ;)
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Birna's message today was the first time I thought to check mine.
I'd had no reminder that mine was overdue and nothing was collected automatically.
I wonder if this part of the issue with having enough paid supporters?
It would be helpful to know why it works for some but not for others. I set it up 9 years ago and did not touch it scince
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Perhaps it was because the credit card which was associated with the account became outdated or was changed?
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Perhaps it was because the credit card which was associated with the account became outdated or was changed?
nope. it is Paypal and my credit card changedUpdate: I just checked that in Paypal there is a subscription corresponding to the subscription in the NikonGear Settings.
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Ouch! 97 now …
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The PayPal subscription have also worked for years. No problems.
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Ouch! 97 now …
It's showing 95 now, one day later :(
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it looks like a countdown, this is the wrong direction
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:'(
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The annual Nikongear subscriptions are quite modest, when compared to those for other sites, especially considering the depth & breadth of information and expertise available on this site.
Whilst I cannot speak on behalf of others, I certainly would not be opposed to a fee increase to ensure that there will be adequate supply of funds enabling the continuation of this site.
Just my two bobs worth...
it looks like a countdown, this is the wrong direction
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....94 :(
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The annual Nikongear subscriptions are quite modest, when compared to those for other sites, especially considering the depth & breadth of information and expertise available on this site.
Hear! Hear!
Whilst I cannot speak on behalf of others, I certainly would not be opposed to a fee increase to ensure that there will be adequate supply of funds enabling the continuation of this site.
Seconded.
May I also politely remind everyone to check their own subscriptions? It is all too easy to forget when one is due to renew or to assume that an automatic renewal is actually working.
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Rather than raising subscription costs, might it be possible to
1. Create an easy way to make support donations with single time and ongoing options.
2. Create a way to easily gift another person a subscription.
I think raising subscription costs might inhibit new subscriptions even though existing subscribers may be willing to pay more.
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While before subscription payment would automatically be taken care of by paypal, this time i was notified by pp to pay 'myself'!
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shut out everyone who did not pay.
lead them directly to permanent subscription page. Say: we will reopen to everyone at 200 subscribers.
not the people are assholes the payment design process is fucked up.
Sorry, Birna, I really love you, but listen this one time.
I have said that before and was very polite.
It did not work.
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I can see that up approximately 400 are logged in just today. What can we do to make just 10 percent opt for a membership?
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Would it be possible to pop up a message to everyone entering the site ? A la Wikipedia?
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Programmatically possible, if somebody cares to write the necessary code. However, I don't like the nagging approach of Wikipedia that much -- and to put this in perspective, I do have set up a monthly payment to Wikipedia myself. One beer less for me per month :)
Our first and foremost problem is to have enough active users of NG, to ensure lively discussions and interesting takes on photography. In the longer run, however, we cannot keep the site afloat without more subscribers. It is not an acute issue at present, but will be next year.
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Programmatically possible, if somebody cares to write the necessary code. However, I don't like the nagging approach of Wikipedia that much -- and to put this in perspective, I do have set up a monthly payment to Wikipedia myself. One beer less for me per month
Our first and foremost problem is to have enough active users of NG, to ensure lively discussions and interesting takes on photography. In the longer run, however, we cannot keep the site afloat without more subscribers. It is not an acute issue at present, but will be next year.
Nagging is sometimes necessary I guess.
If for a week or two all requests to the page are just deviated to a screen that says:
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Thank you for subscribing.
This is an ad free friendly place with more than 2500 members and 500 daily visitors.
To maintain the costs of running this place we need 3000 Euros per year (150 subscribers giving 20 Euros). We need more subscriptions for survival.
If you have not yet subscribed, you can do it here now [link]
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Could we also offer a one time donation option???
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Would it be possible to ‘force’ log everyone out, and then add the above message to the login screen/window?
It could be a gentle nag, only seen when logging in or newly registering.
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I understand the nagging issue. I also feel it that way, but not for Wikipedia or other sites devoid of advertising. Sensitivity may vary though. Getting a short text explaining the NG philosophy, and asking for a contribution at sign in would not be interpreted as nagging, I think. Same for a yearly message to all visitors, around the anniversary of the site, for exemple.
NG is an exception. I think it is worth reminding visitors why it is so and how it can survive the current extinction phase of high quality open access online communities.
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not
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Would it be possible to ‘force’ log everyone out, and then add the above message to the login screen/window?
It could be a gentle nag, only seen when logging in or newly registering.
lovely suggestion
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I'm considering a 'News letter' to inform our members what we are up against.
However, I don't fancy the idea of telling people myself why NG is such a unique gem that it deserves to be supported. Maybe we'll have a competition for the best description of why NG should survive? First price would of course be free subscription for 1 year :)
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I'm considering a 'News letter' to inform our members what we are up against.
However, I don't fancy the idea of telling people myself why NG is such a unique gem that it deserves to be supported. Maybe we'll have a competition for the best description of why NG should survive? First price would of course be free subscription for 1 year :)
Each would be a step in the right direction Birna.
And remember, there is one thing worse for "sensitive" people than a nudge (not a nag) to pay the subscription:
- finding the website gone when they next try to use it
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The latter scenario, however unpleasant it seems, is one of the alternatives for 2026.
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Thank you Birna for suggesting a (yearly?) newsletter and a competition for best text.
I wil still pay my due if I win, so take my text as a starting point and edit it to make it better
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Apparently paying by credit card incurs additional fees thus we won't pursue that avenue further.
If Paypal is deemed unacceptable, I can act as a proxy for bank transfer. After all, I'm the one paying the bills in the end. Just send me a PM for required details.
Do note such solutions require manual handling of subscriptions and if this can be avoided, please use Paypal and automate the process.
Economically we are good until 2025, after that NG sails into uncharted waters.
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Apparently paying by credit card incurs additional fees thus we won't pursue that avenue further.
Can you clarify if those fees are
- for NG to receive the money? or
- to subscribers paying that way?
(some members have mentioned fees, but that varies between different countries and more importantly, the bank/company we use)
I'm in the UK and have a credit card set up against my Paypal account
I incur no charges or fees for any transactions made this way.
However in the UK Paypal offers a choice when we use it to pay someone else
- "friends and family" or gift, with no fee but no payment protection
- commercial transactions, where the receiver incurs a fee and the person paying gets some payment protection in the event of disputes
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When we indeed had a credit card for NG, very very few of the supporters actually made a payment that way, and both sides had to pay fees. Thus we ended our credt card approach.
With Paypal you can select whether or not to pay fees, by selection the payment option accordingly. Hopefully NG counts as a 'friend' :)
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When we indeed had a credit card for NG, very very few of the supporters actually made a payment that way, and both sides had to pay fees. Thus we ended our credt card approach.
With Paypal you can select whether or not to pay fees, by selection the payment option accordingly. Hopefully NG counts as a 'friend' :)
As I've written elsewhere here on NG - only reason I'm not a paying member is that I don't want a PayPal account and as far as I can see it should be possible to pay via credit card on a PayPal transaction. Would that also cause credit card fees on NG? If so, how much?
Unfortunately that option doesn't work when I create a membership on NG - I'm forced to create a PayPal account and I've read that it might be an issue if the PayPal transaction is set to recurring payments - is that the case here on NG? I would also prefer to renew and pay my membership every year.
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Hi Colin
In Australia, PayPal works exactly the same way as you have described for the UK. I cannot see why it would be any different for other countries.
I often use PayPal to pay bills incurred here in Australia, as each PayPal payment results in a receipt from PayPal itself as well as the transaction on the statement issued by the underlying credit card that the funds are sourced from. Having a double receipt like this helps a lot if the person/organisation that you are paying disputes the fact that a payment has been made.
Edit: transacting through PayPal also keeps ones credit card details from being held by too many parties and spread too far across cyberspace. PayPal does have its advantages if used carefully.
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However in the UK Paypal offers a choice when we use it to pay someone else
- "friends and family" or gift, with no fee but no payment protection
- commercial transactions, where the receiver incurs a fee and the person paying gets some payment protection in the event of disputes
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As mentioned the forum software only allows PayPal as an integrated means of payments and as the NG subscriber can also cancel the automated subscription in PayPal themselves its a maintenance free solution where I only intervene when something is not working properly.
As we are providing a service the standard fees need to be paid, for every €20 subscription we receive between €18.50 and €19 depending on the location of the subscriber.
A few years ago somebody asked for the option to pay via a creditcard but in the end never did, so last year I cancelled the card as we were loosing NG subscribers money on the card due to the yearly fees. I can't remember the exact fees but we would need at least 3 or 4 payments before we cover these yearly fees which seems not a viable option knowing nobody used it and its also an all manual procedure on our side.
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A few years ago somebody asked for the option to pay via a creditcard but in the end never did, so last year I cancelled the card as we were loosing NG subscribers money on the card due to the yearly fees. I can't remember the exact fees but we would need at least 3 or 4 payments before we cover these yearly fees which seems not a viable option knowing nobody used it and its also an all manual procedure on our side.
Thanks Jan - agree it doesn't seem viable. I'll PM Birna and pay as suggested.
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I thought that if the sender paid the fees from their end/country in the recipients required currency (i.e. Euros in the instance of NG), then the recipient would get the full amount regardless of what country they are in.
I hope that I am not reading too much into what is being said below, but are some people sending subscription monies to NG via PayPal and are not electing to cover fees from their end?
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As we are providing a service the standard fees need to be paid, for every €20 subscription we receive between €18.50 and €19 depending on the location of the subscriber.
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I thought that if the sender paid the fees from their end/country in the recipients required currency (i.e. Euros in the instance of NG), then the recipient would get the full amount regardless of what country they are in.
I hope that I am not reading too much into what is being said below, but are some people sending subscription monies to NG via PayPal and are not electing to cover fees from their end?
Everybody is, but this is how it is done automatically and to my knowledge the subscribers don't have the option to change that during the activation procedure.
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Thanks Jan Anne.
Maybe if there are these extra fees at the recipient's end, then the subscription needs to be raised a little to cover these.
Everybody is, but this is how it is done automatically and to my knowledge the subscribers don't have the option to change that during the activation procedure.
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We'd enter a rat's race as fees will increase, too :)
The solution is more subscribers, not higher subscription price.
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We'd enter a rat's race as fees will increase, too :)
The solution is more subscribers, not higher subscription price.
Suggestion: charge a handling fee for those of us that wishes to pay manually and not via the automated PayPal :)
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People should remember even the Crew has a life outside NG. A lot of manual operations eat precious time and we try to avoid that.
Most transactions incur costs, be they visible or hidden.
Again, more subscribers mean more dedicated members and in all likelihood more activity on the site. The latter is the top priority, as long as we can keep a running site. The NG Crew is not in this for profit anyway, but paying for site costs out of our own pockets is not sustainable or desirable over time. Currently we have funds to secure operation until mid 2025, if I got the economic data right.