NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: richardHaw on June 06, 2023, 05:55:05
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just got one of these...brought it home and ended up with a broken back :o :o :o
do i absolutely need the drop-in filter for this to work properly??? ::)
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just got one of these...brought it home and ended up with a broken back :o :o :o
do i absolutely need the drop-in filter for this to work properly??? ::)
wow,come to see my idol, learn a lot from your website,thanks
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just got one of these...brought it home and ended up with a broken back :o :o :o
do i absolutely need the drop-in filter for this to work properly??? ::)
I'll assume you have the filter holder, otherwise you'd have a light problem, via the rectangular hole in the barrel
I have read for sure that the filter is part of the optical formula in the reflex-Nikkors (500mm and 1000mm), don't know if it's the case with the 400mm, but to stay on the safe side, you better have a filter in place...
The drop-in filter is 39mm thread, and usually you can find it in the used market, especially colored ones (orange, red, YG, ...)
If you find a colored one, you can replace the glass with one from a standard 39mm clear filter. Easy-peasy, just remove a thin steel wire that's holding the glass in place, replace glass, put back the steel wire and you're done.
The thread is special, resulting in such a way that the filter is screwed entirely in the filter holder, with the edge of the thread flat against the holder border, and there is no protrusion.
You can try fitting a thin standard 39mm filter, if it doesn't stick out too much you are good to go.
I have recently bought such a lens myself, good in every aspect except the crummy short hood. I'm building a proper two-segment hood, more details in the What the Nerds do section when I'm finished. Filter size is 122 mm (in my sample, a clear lens protector was included: seems the front lens is soft ED glass), I had to use a larger tube (155 mm) to avoid vignetting, with a scaled cylindrical adapter going from 125 to 155 mm.
Ciao from Massimo
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The 400 works without the filter itself, but as said earlier, the filter holder needs to be in position to avoid light leaks. Either the 39mm threaded filter holder, or the holder for gel filters. Or the dedicated polariser.
Most standard 39mm filters are too thick to fit, or their thread pitch is wrong. Get the Nikon originals.
Failing any filter holder(s), a judiciously applied piece of black electrician's tape will help :)
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Rear or internal filters can make a big difference to wide-angle lenses. For example, removing the rear filter of the 16/2.8 fisheye (all versions) allows the lens to focus closer, but it can no longer get to infinity. I have done this a few times with my AIS 16/2.8 for wide closeups with good results.
On the other hand, in telephoto lenses light passes through the filter more or less perpendicular, so is hardly refracted. This should mean the focus is hardly affected, and any shift is easily within the limits of the normal focus system. Removal of two extra air/glass boundaries means fewer internal reflections, so contrast could even be better without the filter. The filter may be calculated as part of the optical formula, but my guess is that telephotos will perform perfectly well without the rear or internal filter.
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A perfect, plano-parallel filter moves the focus about 1/3 of its thickness. Thus, no wonder a short-focal fisheye lens like the 16/2.8 will no longer focus to infinity without the filter in position. The filter is part of the optical design.
For a 400mm ED lens which has no fixed position for infinity focus, a rear filter is of absolutely no concern, whether present or not.
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On the other hand, in telephoto lenses light passes through the filter more or less perpendicular, so is hardly refracted. This should mean the focus is hardly affected, and any shift is easily within the limits of the normal focus system. Removal of two extra air/glass boundaries means fewer internal reflections, so contrast could even be better without the filter. The filter may be calculated as part of the optical formula, but my guess is that telephotos will perform perfectly well without the rear or internal filter.
Apologies for somewhat hijacking this topic. Is this also true for the Nikkor 500mm reflex? I sometimes see a few for sale without the rear filter.
Thanks.
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Probably. I see no reason why that lens would be different, unless it is calibrated and locked to a fixed infinity focus position by the factory. However, given the potential thermal expansion of the optics that seems unlikely. Thus all mirror lenses I own whether Nikkor or other brands, have a focusing collar that rotates way beyond the indicated infinity stop.
The rear filter does prevent dust from entering the mirror optics, though, So is beneficial, but not mandatory, to have a rear filter inserted.
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wow,come to see my idol, learn a lot from your website,thanks
glad you liked the blog! :o :o :o
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i was really hoping that i can finally stop collecting stuff but the blog needs to be complete :o :o :o
i tested the giant lens for a bit and it did look sharp even without the filter. it does come with the holder at least, if not, i have several spares here.
does anyone know which number the filter is? like which part/model number?
VERY sharp even wide-open.
i also got the 400/5.6 ::)
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i was really hoping that i can finally stop collecting stuff but the blog needs to be complete :o :o :o
i tested the giant lens for a bit and it did look sharp even without the filter. it does come with the holder at least, if not, i have several spares here.
does anyone know which number the filter is? like which part/model number?
VERY sharp even wide-open.
i also got the 400/5.6 ::)
It is the 39 mm L37c filter, same L37c as the front 122mm filter
Ciao from Massimo
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Congratulations, I hope you have a good sample. I have one I purchased new in the mid '80s and it's my favourite lens. If your one came with the original "leather" case, it's just possible that the filter and a holder are stored inside the lid. My lens came with the filter fitted and if you use the finger loop inside the lid and pull, there is a cavity inside that holds an empty spare filter holder. In your case, it's possible someone just swapped them around.
As mentioned above, it's definitely worth the trouble of making a longer hood. I find it very sharp wide open and most of my work is done near minimum focusing distance. Attached is a 100% crop of a New Zealand Tui, taken at f3.5 @ about 5m, on a Df.
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Nice to see an NZ Tui again. :)
Congratulations, I hope you have a good sample. I have one I purchased new in the mid '80s and it's my favourite lens. If your one came with the original "leather" case, it's just possible that the filter and a holder are stored inside the lid. My lens came with the filter fitted and if you use the finger loop inside the lid and pull, there is a cavity inside that holds an empty spare filter holder. In your case, it's possible someone just swapped them around.
As mentioned above, it's definitely worth the trouble of making a longer hood. I find it very sharp wide open and most of my work is done near minimum focusing distance. Attached is a 100% crop of a New Zealand Tui, taken at f3.5 @ about 5m, on a Df.
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I’ve got a spare filter, but I think the saga and cost of sending it from Japan would be prohibitive.
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i realized that i have the gel holder instead of the filter holder :o :o :o
its very sharp...even at 3.5 ::)
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i realized that i have the gel holder instead of the filter holder :o :o :o
its very sharp...even at 3.5 ::)
There's three kinds of filter holder:
Gel holder (I think you can fit a naked glass in the gel holder, maybe a 40.5mm or 42mm glass)
Filter holder (39mm thread)
Polarizer filter holder (the official one is C-PL1S, but the C-PL2S can be fitted)
The polarizer filter holder (+included filter, special with a gear around it) commands horrible prices: seen at up to 400$, but sometimes you can find a reasonable seller (bought mine for 65,40€)
There is a neat system for turning the polarizer without removing the filter holder, including photos
Here you can find a compatibility chart for all the drop-in filter holders:
https://www.nikonimgsupport.com/eu/BV_article?articleNo=000005861&configured=1&lang=en_GB&setRedirect=true (https://www.nikonimgsupport.com/eu/BV_article?articleNo=000005861&configured=1&lang=en_GB&setRedirect=true)
In the chart, it is stated that the C-PL2S is incompatible with the 400/3.5, but I was able to fit it by using a rectangular piece of black closed cell foam, which moves it out by about 6-7 mm.
The springy action of the foam holds it firmly in place so it does not rattle.
Ciao from Massimo
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Fellow optics addicts;
I suspact that the glass quality of the rear filters may have some influence on results, even with fairly paralell rays: Minolta writes (in the leaflet accompanying my 800mm catadiopric)that the filter preferrably should be one of their special ones (which I assume has another glass composition than their usual clear one), but that if necessary an ordinary one could be used. Possibly different dispersion data even if little refraction takes place.
p.
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If in any doubt, drop the rear-mount filter on the 400 and suchlike designed lenses. It won't harm anything, except dust might fall more freely into the lens innards. Use a lens cap to solve the latter issue.
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anyone selling the holder??
damn, i did not realize that i sold off my holders when i left Japan :o :o :o
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There's one here, complete with L37c filter:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394462875780?hash=item5bd7d1d084:g:cwUAAOSw~Dlj6257
NOTE: I have no idea if it's the same as the 400 f3.5 one, although looking at mxbianco's link above to the polariser holder compatibility chart which shows 300 and 400 using the same holder, the chances are pretty good this is compatible.
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I have both the 300/2.8 Ais and the 400/3.5 AI and the holder is interchangeable. In fact, it can be used on the 500/4P and the 600/5.6 ED-If as well.
The newer 300/2.8 AFS uses 52mm filters internally so needs a different holder.
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I have both the 300/2.8 Ais and the 400/3.5 AI and the holder is interchangeable. In fact, it can be used on the 500/4P and the 600/5.6 ED-If as well.
The holder is also present on the 300/2.8 AF-I
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okay, a friend gave me a spare :o :o :o
now i need the actual filter! ::)
it seems that the filter is special, too...with a raised lip. is this the same filter used on the 500/8 mirror-lens?
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I think so, yes.
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thanks!
anybody has one for sale? :o :o :o
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okay, a friend gave me a spare :o :o :o
now i need the actual filter! ::)
it seems that the filter is special, too...with a raised lip. is this the same filter used on the 500/8 mirror-lens?
Apparently, the filter holder can just accept generic 39mm filters...
https://www.destoutz.ch/lens_400mm_f3.5_183918.html#thumb
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wouldnt the spec be different? :o :o :o
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Place inside the holder is limited thus ordinary filters might be too thick. The thread pitch is quite fine as well.
I'll make a try later today.
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OK, tried 'standard' filters and the issue is their rim is too thick. They won't seat properly. Lots of Dremel work will be required and danger of damaging the filter itself is high.
Starting with a gel filter holder, I managed to put a 39mm IR filter into the holder after removing the filter from its keeper ring. Insertion was from the 'flip' side and a few drops of judiciously applied superglue made the combination final. And non-interchangeable as well. So might not be what you are looking for?
I do have sets of the coloured 39mm Nikon filters for the 400 and similar lenses, but only found a single L37C. If I were to find another it could well end up on another Continent :)