Author Topic: The new, amazing 300 mm f/4 PF ED VR Nikkor E  (Read 16493 times)

Airy

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Re: The new, amazing 300 mm f/4 PF ED VR Nikkor E
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2016, 22:55:37 »
Magnified onion rings. Aspherical lenses are humbled.
Airy Magnien

Ilkka Nissilš

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Re: The new, amazing 300 mm f/4 PF ED VR Nikkor E
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2016, 20:51:22 »
Not related to the current discussion flare, but I'll post this image anyway.

I used to get a lot of these kinds of opportunities where my AF-S 300/4D could not be used to capture the animals because of too dim light and also usually too far a distance to the animals. However, the 300 PF is so small and light that it is really easy to handle and it makes me want to try. This image was shot with the D5, f/4, 1/100s, 300mm, ISO 102400, VR Sport mode in the dreaded shutter speed range. I used Quiet continuous mode to avoid the rather loud sound of the camera - it seems to be a good compromise. I processed the image with DXO's PRIME algorithm which is really slow but it handles chroma noise quite well (into oblivion). However, the background appears a bit as if painted and I'm not sure if I should try a little less noise reduction. This was just as the daylight was about to extinguish itself.

I'm very inexperienced in wildlife photography but I give it a try on occasion. Most of my subjects are people and landscape. I believe this opportunity presented itself because the animals dared closer to the road due to the approaching darkness.

Jack of all trades

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Re: The new, amazing 300 mm f/4 PF ED VR Nikkor E
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2016, 00:15:57 »
Thank you Ilkka, Airy and Bjorn. I shoot a lot of outdoor festivals, where the current fad in lighting is to light up the audience as well as the performers. At minimum, there are usually backlights on the performers (LED) and the light sources are visible in the pictures. I've been using the 70-200 f2.8, and would like something with more reach. The 70-200 takes great pictures, and I don't want to backtrack in image quality. From Bjorn's post, it looks like I might have a problem with the 300mm f4 PF ED.

Frank Fremerey

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Re: The new, amazing 300 mm f/4 PF ED VR Nikkor E
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2016, 01:03:07 »
I promise to contribute more pictures I am amazed by this lens.
You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Me: https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey/

Airy

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Re: The new, amazing 300 mm f/4 PF ED VR Nikkor E
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2016, 05:47:34 »
Thank you Ilkka, Airy and Bjorn. I shoot a lot of outdoor festivals, where the current fad in lighting is to light up the audience as well as the performers. At minimum, there are usually backlights on the performers (LED) and the light sources are visible in the pictures.

Good luck then. Even with the 70-200, I found it difficult to get usable shots under such or similar circumstances. The most common problem is channel saturation (I hope that's the correct term), by which you get imposed cartooning effect. The only way out of boredom is then to switch to black & white...

Airy Magnien

Frank Fremerey

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Re: The new, amazing 300 mm f/4 PF ED VR Nikkor E
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2016, 11:49:34 »
I processed the image with DXO's PRIME algorithm which is really slow but it handles chroma noise quite well (into oblivion). However, the background appears a bit as if painted and I'm not sure if I should try a little less noise reduction. This was just as the daylight was about to extinguish itself.

This is a D5 / D500 processing issue at High ISO. I tend to skip noise reduction whenever possible.

You might try the following: Develop two shots, one with minimum noise reduction, one with maximum.

Put them on two layers in photoshop and then "paint" noise reduction into the parts that might need it using a vers soft eraser tool and / or masking.
You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Me: https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey/

Frank Fremerey

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Re: The new, amazing 300 mm f/4 PF ED VR Nikkor E
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2016, 12:23:59 »
here we go (near field / far field / skin tones / detail rendering / different light qualities / bokeh):
You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Me: https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey/

Airy

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Re: The new, amazing 300 mm f/4 PF ED VR Nikkor E
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2016, 12:33:08 »
Very consistent, good performances across users and usages.
I am looking forward to a portrait session, one of these days (the encounter with the busking bossa singer was sheer luck)
Airy Magnien

Ilkka Nissilš

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Re: The new, amazing 300 mm f/4 PF ED VR Nikkor E
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2016, 12:34:16 »
Using masks to select areas for noise reduction seems like a good idea, thanks! In the straight raw conversion the field in the foreground is full of colour noise but somehow the trees in the background do not have as much of visual noise that it would bother me. In the DXO NR processed image, the forest looks too processed but the foreground looks okay (to my eye). So I could use a mask that combines the field from the NR processed image with the forest background without noise reduction, or some intermediate mixture. However, for me it is important for the image also to look decent in a print and I suspect the noise would become more apparent there, so some processing of the forest as well is probably a good idea. I can always experiment.

However, I don't see the problem as so much related to any specific camera - ultimately this type of noise mostly comes from the fact that only a small number of photons arrives on the sensor during the exposure and since individual photons arrive at random times, there is a lot of uncertainty in how many get recorded in the given fixed time interval, leading to a lot of visually apparent noise. What noise reduction can do is try to make the image look more pleasing to the eye. In very low light, the human eye utilizes rods which do not have colour discrimination ability, so in a way it is okay for the image also to become more monochromatic.  DXO PRIME seems to process out the colour noise and leave luminosity information within the deer fur for example. It kind of makes sense to do that as it maintains the overall colour of each object and detail within each object is more monochromatic. I guess this creates a little bit of a painted appearance. Still it looks a lot better than the unprocessed original in this case.

David H. Hartman

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Re: The new, amazing 300 mm f/4 PF ED VR Nikkor E
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2016, 14:03:47 »
here we go (near field / far field / skin tones / detail rendering / different light qualities / bokeh):

Frank,

Why did your first photograph in this series immediately bring to mind the British SiFi series, Dr. Who? Instantaneously. 

Dave
Beatniks are out to make it rich
Oh no, must be the season of the witch

Frank Fremerey

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Re: The new, amazing 300 mm f/4 PF ED VR Nikkor E
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2016, 14:48:21 »
Ilkka: I do not have experience with DXO RAW processing or Noise reduction. I tried PhotoNinja, NX-D and ACR. From that experience I feel the fifth generation (EXPEED5) RAW files are different in handling than the D3 and the D600 files, esp when it comes to high ISO noise. I am still lacking the ultimate recipee for them. Generally it seems a good idea to do Bracketing with 3 shots and 1.0 eV distance. The noise behavior from frame to frame seems very different. Some noise seems to help the details, some seems to cover the details. A perfect exposure in a given situation helps the RAW processing tremendously. I will write more about it if I come to a well reproducible conclusion.

Psychologically it helps to shoot a roll of film in between and then laugh the ISO noise away.

The advanced NR in NX-D allows me to only hit on the chroma noise and reduce the sharpening. This way I get a very nice film grain look into my High ISO pictures.

The standard Nikon NR and also in Noise Ninja lead to a high loss in structure and details.

You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Me: https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey/

Airy

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Re: The new, amazing 300 mm f/4 PF ED VR Nikkor E
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2016, 15:45:41 »
Quote
Psychologically it helps to shoot a roll of film in between and then laugh the ISO noise away.

LOL. But maybe our watching shots on screen makes it difficult to compare with film. On screen, the noise perception (especially in the never-that-dark shadows) is exacerbated, I think.
Airy Magnien

Hugh_3170

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Re: The new, amazing 300 mm f/4 PF ED VR Nikkor E
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2016, 15:59:35 »
Very definitely the personal transport ship of Sontaran Commander Strax.  No doubt about it.  It even looks like a Sontaran!

Well captured - in Germany?  If so, then please inform Angela Merkel without delay.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Frank,

Why did your first photograph in this series immediately bring to mind the British SiFi series, Dr. Who? Instantaneously. 

Dave
Hugh Gunn

Ilkka Nissilš

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Re: The new, amazing 300 mm f/4 PF ED VR Nikkor E
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2016, 16:44:12 »
Prints can be made, of course, and compared. Scanning film introduced its own contribution to the way noise is seen in images as well, and often resulted in disappointment. A glorious slide when viewed through a projector or loupe would translate to a grainy mess after scanning.  A microscope view of a slide by contrast was a very pleasant experience and it can only be wondered what happened to the image in scanning.  Maybe it is a question of the type of light source used in scanners, as well as the aliasing of the grain structure itself.


Frank Fremerey

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Re: The new, amazing 300 mm f/4 PF ED VR Nikkor E
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2016, 22:40:58 »
Well captured - in Germany?  If so, then please inform Angela Merkel without delay.

See travel diaries / Maastricht ...
You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Me: https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey/