Author Topic: FW 2.0 for Z6 and Z7  (Read 1935 times)

Chris Dees

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Re: FW 2.0 for Z6 and Z7
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2019, 20:57:11 »
AFAIK IBIS and VR are already working together. I think 3 extra batteries in the pocket is less weight than a grip. I can understanding people are interested in a portrait grip, but thatís it. The rest are nice to have, but for ME of no value .
My number 1, 2 and 3 priority are AF tracking/speed. Other one for me is the registration of EXIF with MF-lenses.
For now Iím pretty happy with my Z6
Everyone has his own priority list.  :)
Chris Dees

Ilkka Nissilš

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Re: FW 2.0 for Z6 and Z7
« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2019, 14:30:55 »
So what I am waiting for the next update: IBIS and lens's VR (if any) should merge and work simultaneously, as some other manufacturers already do

As far as I know, this is what Nikon do also: if a VR lens is mounted, the in-lens VR compensates for those axis of freedom that it can, and the in-camera VR adds the other freedoms of movement to the compensation.

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but stop any of them if the speed reaches 1/1000 and faster, in auto, if you wish so.

I think there is a bit of a problem with such an approach; namely, VR helps keep the viewfinder stable, and if your shutter speed is close to the limit (e.g., on aperture priority), then the camera will stop and start VR as the exposure varies over and under the threshold. This would be highly disruptive. The user needs time to adopt the hand-holding technique to the VR algorithm in use (or none) and this can take a few seconds. The VR system may also need a short time to start and stabilize. I would not want the camera to suddenly start or stop the VR while I'm shooting.

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Shutter MUST close the sensor when you switching the lens, in auto, again.

I suspect the Z shutter is so close to the mount that it would be easily damaged if left closed when a lens is not mounted on the camera.

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Battery grip, of 5-6 AA batteries, to save size and weight, because last update is draining its own battery even faster.

A larger battery is needed, and a proper vertical grip with controls would be great to have, however, Nikon decided against this in the Z6 and Z7. I imagine if they make higher-end models, they may choose to offer a vertical grip option. The problem is that the interface for the vertical grip increases the camera size and weight slightly, and Nikon seem to have prioritised the size and weight. I can see how they made this decision, but it doesn't serve everyone's needs. On the other hand, Nikon may not be aiming to please everyone.

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To prevent such the draining, turning camera off MUST stop camera-battery connections at all, with your auto choice, of course.

Well, that would be nice, but all modern cameras use a small amount of current even when they are off. I suppose this may be necessary to maintain the camera's settings, date and time etc. and to make it possible to have it wake up as quickly as it does. If the battery is removed and replaced, it's possible that the startup time becomes longer (I've seen 3-6 seconds reported for Sony start-up after battery is inserted).

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Time of wake-up is too long, about 1.5-2sec. Terribly outdated, should be 0.4-0.6sec, not more. 

Sony A7R III and A7 III are the Z7's and Z6's primary competitors, and their startup time to first shot according to imaging resource testing is 1.7 sec. Nikon Z7 and Z6 have 1.5 sec. I don't quite understand how you you come to the conclusion that these startup times are "terribly outdated", unless you are saying that the measurements are inaccurate, or that all these cameras are outdated.


tommiejeep

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Re: FW 2.0 for Z6 and Z7
« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2019, 14:52:05 »
Well, the Z6 arrived a couple of hours ago.  Haven't looked at manual yet or started setting up.  Updated to FW 2 using battery from D500 while the 15b is charging.  Changed AF to dynamic and clicked a couple of shots.   I was worried about start-up time . Not a worry, I did not even complete saying one thousand one (not one thousand and one)  to myself and clicked.  Start up was big problem for a7rii shooting Events but not bad on the a7iii.  I will see what happens coming back from Sleep.  The work around for the a7rii and a7iii was to never let them Sleep.  Happy camper  :D   Now the long process for learning the camera, FTZ, LM-NZ adapter, MF aids, setting up the menus.  All good fun....not  ;)
Tom
Tom Hardin, Goa, India

longzoom

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Re: FW 2.0 for Z6 and Z7
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2019, 17:04:20 »
Illka, I could be agree or, partially, disagree with your comments, but, that's why, I've added, or I meant that: "AUTO choice". It is simply what I need - off, auto or manual of every new options, as well as much more, what will bring new mirrorless amazing technics. Already existed machines, or new much more advanced ones, we will see. BTW, IBIS + VR still is not fully clear for me, but I really need the AUTO choice to be off, this way or that. Nikon should enlightened us on its algorithm. There are a lot of 1.0 - 1.4 lenses around the corner, I want to get as better bokeh as possible, in every situation. New much more juiced batteries already existed, about 4X, could be transformed to EL 15 size, but needs absolutely new charger, 2 of them with new charger will be around $400, what is not a solution for everyone. Thank you for your time!  LZ   

longzoom

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Re: FW 2.0 for Z6 and Z7
« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2019, 17:09:20 »
AFAIK IBIS and VR are already working together. I think 3 extra batteries in the pocket is less weight than a grip. I can understanding people are interested in a portrait grip, but thatís it. The rest are nice to have, but for ME of no value .
My number 1, 2 and 3 priority are AF tracking/speed. Other one for me is the registration of EXIF with MF-lenses.
For now Iím pretty happy with my Z6
Everyone has his own priority list.  :)
That's right - priority list! While the AF tracking speed is not that important for my stile, I understand your needs completely! THX!  LZ

longzoom

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Re: FW 2.0 for Z6 and Z7
« Reply #35 on: May 27, 2019, 17:14:18 »
Well, the Z6 arrived a couple of hours ago.  Haven't looked at manual yet or started setting up.  Updated to FW 2 using battery from D500 while the 15b is charging.  Changed AF to dynamic and clicked a couple of shots.   I was worried about start-up time . Not a worry, I did not even complete saying one thousand one (not one thousand and one)  to myself and clicked.  Start up was big problem for a7rii shooting Events but not bad on the a7iii.  I will see what happens coming back from Sleep.  The work around for the a7rii and a7iii was to never let them Sleep.  Happy camper  :D   Now the long process for learning the camera, FTZ, LM-NZ adapter, MF aids, setting up the menus.  All good fun....not  ;)
Tom
After you became a master of it to the deepest bottom, you will be amazed with its possibilities! Good luck!  LZ

tommiejeep

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Re: FW 2.0 for Z6 and Z7
« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2019, 05:30:03 »
Thanks LZ, I have to laugh.   I think the only camera that I 'mastered of its; deepest bottom' was the Nikkormat 50+ years ago  :D .  I normally understand how a camera works to shoot what I shoot and then dive into the manual when I have to (want to)) shoot something different.   The more modern the camera, the more interdependencies of the settings.

On my first cup of coffee and the Z6 journey begins  :)
Tom
Tom Hardin, Goa, India

golunvolo

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Re: FW 2.0 for Z6 and Z7
« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2019, 08:56:27 »
Congratulations on your new tool!
   I have been shooting with mine this weekend. Probably the d750 will go in favor of a second z6 body.

longzoom

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Re: FW 2.0 for Z6 and Z7
« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2019, 01:09:47 »
One more thing has came to me - if there is no room for second slot, is it possible to set inside the body extra chip with wider memory ability? I really knew how the camera looking inside, there is small free space for it. Look, there is already existed micro cards of 500GB, and even 1TB! If you put the back LCD horizontally, free space on the inner board will be on the left side. So, if, God forbid, something happened, or one really needs to filming something, why not? To keep myself safe, I am ready to pay some extra to Nikon for such the thing. OK, such the innovation could be impossible, so, any comments?  THX!  LZ

Ilkka Nissilš

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Re: FW 2.0 for Z6 and Z7
« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2019, 12:20:30 »
While a large internal flash would be possible, then the contents would only be possible to access via the USB connector (yes, I understand there is also wifi, but given that it is Nikon wifi, I would not bet my files on it working  ::) ), which in itself could be broken, so in such a case the files might not be possible to retrieve. With a removeable card interface you can either use the USB interface or a separate card reader, so there are more ways of transferring the files. I personally do not like to use the USB interface because I can imagine a scenario where the camera is pulled accidentally from the cable and potentially dropped. This is the primary reason I use a card reader, the other is that I don't want to strain the USB connector unnecessarily. I need it for tethering but don't want to use it where it is not necessary. Internal storage has the additional problem that it may not be possible to upgrade in size.

I am sure Nikon could add a second card slot and interface for vertical grip by making the camera slightly larger and more expensive. But since the Z6 and Z7 are the first generation, they don't offer everything. By the time Nikon have a reasonably complete native lens lineup for the Z mount, I am sure they will also offer camera bodies which have dual card slots and vertical grip options. Also they need to work on the AF, buffer and other aspects of the camera design. The lack of a second card slot is a signal "this is not meant to be used for critical applications where image loss would cause significant hardship." Even if you had the second card slot you might still miss some shots because of the AF. So for those applications where you must get the shot, it makes sense not to use a first generation product.

I think Nikon simply wanted to make the camera and lenses what they perceived as the ideal size and the decisions on some features to omit were based on that. However, as time goes by they can probably make some of the internal components smaller and thus perhaps accommodate the missing features, or if nothing else, by making the camera body slightly larger. But, in the first generation you always have some flaws. Personally the lack of native telephoto lenses and some aspects of the way the AF works are more serious issues than the lack of second card slot or vertical grip for that matter.

Note also that the D7500 has neither a second card slot nor vertical grip. I suspect the lack of vertical grip offering in that camera is due to poor sales of the grip for the D7100/D7200. Of course that may be that people don't want it on this type of a body, or they may have bought a much less expensive third party grip. This gives then the impression to Nikon that "accessory vertical grips don't sell well on small ILC bodies", whether it is true or not. It may also be in order to promote the sales of the more expensive D500 body. But as there is no doubt going to be user feedback, they may later change course on these things. I would probably have bought the D7500 if they had kept all the D7200 features. But sometimes the designers make decisions which turn out to be mistakes in retrospect. In the case of the Z6/Z7 I think if the next bodies are larger and more expensive there will be some criticism about that too (though some of us like larger bodies).

longzoom

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Re: FW 2.0 for Z6 and Z7
« Reply #40 on: May 29, 2019, 14:18:36 »
Ilkka, I've read all of it very carefully. Agree. Yeah, USB connections, as well as Nikon's WiFi, ain't reliable. But what I mean - all of the info from inner memory could be transferred to its own removable card, in seconds, or to outer info collector of any kind, via middle device, from the XQD slot to any extra drive. Not big deal, technically. And I can't be agree more on your futurospective sight on next bigger bodies, while nobody may keep third-party makers from manufacturing hand-grips for already existed Z6-7 type bodies. Yeah, very interesting to see what are the ways the others thinking! Thanks,  LZ

gryphon1911

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Re: FW 2.0 for Z6 and Z7
« Reply #41 on: May 30, 2019, 14:46:35 »
Is anything done? Please share! THX in advance.  LZ

Sorry it took so long to confirm...but yes...in shutter type mode AUTO, it appears to me via audible confirmation that the EFCS is in effect at 1/250 and slower shutter speeds, where as anything above that (1/320 and above) is using the full mechanical shutter.   Also confirmed that in AUTO shutter type, you can select shutter speeds up through 1/8000.
Andrew
Nikon Z6/D500/Df Shooter (Various lenses), Olympus PEN-F (Various lenses), Fuji XPro2/X-E3 (various lenses)

longzoom

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Re: FW 2.0 for Z6 and Z7
« Reply #42 on: May 30, 2019, 23:18:58 »
Thank you, Andrew!

longzoom

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Re: FW 2.0 for Z6 and Z7
« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2019, 15:36:50 »
2019-06-14 059-1 by l[url=https://flic.kr/p/2gehpWM]2019-06-14 059-1-2 by longzoom, on Flickrongzoom[/url], on Flickr.  Yes, this face/eye option is fantastic. I've never seen anything better focused from Nikon. Z7, 80-400G, f5.6.  LZ