Author Topic: Nikon 105/2.5 AI-s vs AI: changes between them?  (Read 403 times)

Jedi

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Nikon 105/2.5 AI-s vs AI: changes between them?
« on: April 13, 2019, 11:38:37 »
Good morning, I'd like to buy a Nikon 105/2.5 AI-s; I bought it a long time ago, but then sold it back. It was an AI-s version. My trusted retailer has got an AI version, today. Has AI version got the same rendering of the AI-s? About coating, instead? Thank you!!! 
Nikon D810 - Zeiss 21/2.8, Zeiss 25/2, Zeiss 28/2, Nikon 28/2 AI, Zeiss 35/1.4, Zeiss 50/1.4, Zeiss M-P 50/2, Zeiss Milvus 50/1.4, Zeiss 85/1.4,  Nikon AF-D 85/1.4,  Zeiss 100/2, Nikon AF-D 105/2 DC, Zeiss 135/2, Nikon AF-D 135/2 DC, Nikon AF-D 180/2.8, Nikon AF 300/4

Akira

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Re: Nikon 105/2.5 AI-s vs AI: changes between them?
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2019, 12:04:10 »
Hi, I would go for the Ai instead of Ai-s because of the longer focus throw and much smoother aperture shape.

Thanks to its simple optical design, the advantage of the latest Super Integrated Coating should not be that influential to the choice.
"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

"Limitation is inspiration." - Akira

Řivind Třien

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Re: Nikon 105/2.5 AI-s vs AI: changes between them?
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2019, 12:23:03 »

However in the case you plan to chip it and control aperture from the body, you would want an AIS version over the AI version, as only the former has linear control of the aperture through the stop down actuator.
Řivind Třien

Jedi

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Re: Nikon 105/2.5 AI-s vs AI: changes between them?
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2019, 12:41:34 »
However in the case you plan to chip it and control aperture from the body, you would want an AIS version over the AI version, as only the former has linear control of the aperture through the stop down actuator.
Not control aperture from the body isn't a problem, I use Zeiss ZF lenses without problems!
Nikon D810 - Zeiss 21/2.8, Zeiss 25/2, Zeiss 28/2, Nikon 28/2 AI, Zeiss 35/1.4, Zeiss 50/1.4, Zeiss M-P 50/2, Zeiss Milvus 50/1.4, Zeiss 85/1.4,  Nikon AF-D 85/1.4,  Zeiss 100/2, Nikon AF-D 105/2 DC, Zeiss 135/2, Nikon AF-D 135/2 DC, Nikon AF-D 180/2.8, Nikon AF 300/4

Řivind Třien

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Re: Nikon 105/2.5 AI-s vs AI: changes between them?
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2019, 12:45:59 »
Then you might want to follow Akira's advice.
(On the other hand, if the one at hand had been an AIS version in good condition, I would not have hesitated on that as the difference is not that big, both really nice, my own experience with the AIS version, but you know that one of course).
Řivind Třien

chambeshi

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Re: Nikon 105/2.5 AI-s vs AI: changes between them?
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2019, 12:57:52 »
Here are a few threads I've archived about the 105's. Notably, these seem to circle to twinning these legendary Nikkors with the Df :-)

http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,2666.0.html

http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,2141.msg25329.html#msg25329

See bokeh comparisons - https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58296998

Last but not least, there are these two 1001 essays
https://imaging.nikon.com/history/story/0005/index.htm

https://imaging.nikon.com/history/story/0059/index.htm
D850 Df, Z7 20 f4 AI 28 f2.8AIS 45 f2.8AIP 55mm 2.8AIS+60 f2.8G Micro 58 f1.4G 85 f1.4D 105 f2.5AIS 135 f2DC, 180 f2.8D, 200 f2G VRII 400 f2.8G VRII 300 f4E PF 500 f5.6E P, 18-35 G, 24-120 f4G, 24-85 f/3.5-4.5G ED 70-180 Micro f4-5.6D 70-200 f2.8E FL, Zeiss Distagons (15 f2.8 21 f2.8 25 f2)

Jedi

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Re: Nikon 105/2.5 AI-s vs AI: changes between them?
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2019, 13:14:06 »
Here are a few threads I've archived about the 105's. Notably, these seem to circle to twinning these legendary Nikkors with the Df :-)

http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,2666.0.html

http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,2141.msg25329.html#msg25329

See bokeh comparisons - https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58296998

Last but not least, there are these two 1001 essays
https://imaging.nikon.com/history/story/0005/index.htm

https://imaging.nikon.com/history/story/0059/index.htm
Thank you for your answers!! I'm surprised about the similarity posted between 105/2.5 and 105/1.4E in a link of them!!
Nikon D810 - Zeiss 21/2.8, Zeiss 25/2, Zeiss 28/2, Nikon 28/2 AI, Zeiss 35/1.4, Zeiss 50/1.4, Zeiss M-P 50/2, Zeiss Milvus 50/1.4, Zeiss 85/1.4,  Nikon AF-D 85/1.4,  Zeiss 100/2, Nikon AF-D 105/2 DC, Zeiss 135/2, Nikon AF-D 135/2 DC, Nikon AF-D 180/2.8, Nikon AF 300/4

Birna Rřrslett

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Re: Nikon 105/2.5 AI-s vs AI: changes between them?
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2019, 13:16:40 »
I can only repeat: any AI or AIS 105 will do nicely. If you have to select one of them, my preference is for the AI.

The newer 105/1.4E is a darling lens but participates in a heavy-champion class all by itself. Handling might be awkward if you have small hands.

richardHaw

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Re: Nikon 105/2.5 AI-s vs AI: changes between them?
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2019, 14:41:57 »
get the Sonnar version  :o :o :o

sorry, just my preference...i am a Sonnar lover ::)

the Ai is better-built but no hood

Jedi

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Re: Nikon 105/2.5 AI-s vs AI: changes between them?
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2019, 16:12:12 »
get the Sonnar version  :o :o :o

sorry, just my preference...i am a Sonnar lover ::)

the Ai is better-built but no hood
  Can I mount the Nikkor-P 105/2.5 on my D810, or it has got the first type of baynet which is not compatible, like the -o series?
Nikon D810 - Zeiss 21/2.8, Zeiss 25/2, Zeiss 28/2, Nikon 28/2 AI, Zeiss 35/1.4, Zeiss 50/1.4, Zeiss M-P 50/2, Zeiss Milvus 50/1.4, Zeiss 85/1.4,  Nikon AF-D 85/1.4,  Zeiss 100/2, Nikon AF-D 105/2 DC, Zeiss 135/2, Nikon AF-D 135/2 DC, Nikon AF-D 180/2.8, Nikon AF 300/4

richardHaw

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Re: Nikon 105/2.5 AI-s vs AI: changes between them?
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2019, 16:20:49 »
  Can I mount the Nikkor-P 105/2.5 on my D810, or it has got the first type of baynet which is not compatible, like the -o series?

look for the ones with the Ai-ring  :o :o :o

Jedi

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Re: Nikon 105/2.5 AI-s vs AI: changes between them?
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2019, 16:39:29 »
look for the ones with the Ai-ring  :o :o :o
Sure!!! I asked only for confirmation, excessive prudence, before buying.........I'm not so ignorant....., very ignorant, but not so!

Nikon D810 - Zeiss 21/2.8, Zeiss 25/2, Zeiss 28/2, Nikon 28/2 AI, Zeiss 35/1.4, Zeiss 50/1.4, Zeiss M-P 50/2, Zeiss Milvus 50/1.4, Zeiss 85/1.4,  Nikon AF-D 85/1.4,  Zeiss 100/2, Nikon AF-D 105/2 DC, Zeiss 135/2, Nikon AF-D 135/2 DC, Nikon AF-D 180/2.8, Nikon AF 300/4

Airy

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Re: Nikon 105/2.5 AI-s vs AI: changes between them?
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2019, 18:26:37 »
I have both. Slight bokeh advantage to the AI version, slight advantage to the AIS version as a walk-around lens thanks to the sliding shade. For the AI, I was lucky enough to find an original clip-on shade (also usable with 135 and 105 macro), but the combo is still less convenient to handle. Splendid IQ anyway.
Airy Magnien

the solitaire

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Re: Nikon 105/2.5 AI-s vs AI: changes between them?
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2019, 21:19:28 »
I post some example images to say a bit towards my opinion on Nikons 105mm lenses

DSC_0669-Edit by b j, on Flickr

DSC_9572 by b j, on Flickr

DSC_1598-Bearbeitet-2 by b j, on Flickr

All 3 of the above were taken using the oldest optical design. The 5 element in 3 groups Nikkor-P

The picture below was taken using the newer 5 element in 4 groups design

DSC_2052-Edit-2 by b j, on Flickr

Differences between the Gauss and Sonnar design 105mm f2,5 Nikkors exist. They can be exposed when making comparison shots. I once did that, because I owned lenses in both designs.

In total I owned 4 different 105mm f2,5 Nikkor lenses. The Sonnar 105mm f2,5 Nikor-P (with 6 blade diaphragm. The very first design used 9 blade diaphragms), the Gauss 105mm f2,5 Nikkor-P.C with multicoated front element, the 105mm f2,5 Ai and the 105mm f2,5 Ai-S

The difference between the Gauss design lenses really is minimal. Sample variation wil most likely cause more difference then the modernisation of coatings on these.

With all but the Ai-S I used reversible snap on hood (HS-7) from the Noct Nikkor and 105 f2,8 micro Nikkor. It is a bit wider then the HS-4, which I find pleasant because it's less likely to bump into the lens when reverse mounting the hood. The HS-7 is also easier to find.

As to the rendering, the Gauss lenses are a it sharper towards the edges, but in the end I sold all but the Sonnar lens, because I prefer the transition from in-focus to out-of-focus elements. Again, the differences are very very minimal, but with OoF subjects at the distances I tend to place them in my photos, the older lens seems to transition a little smoother.

My version of the lens came with Nikons Ai conversion kit so it works perfectly on most Nikon cameras. The older lens is also slightly smaller and lighter then later versions, except maybe the Ai-S.

In the end, if you are looking to buy a 105mm f2,5, you can buy any version really, and verify you find a good copy. The pre-Ai-S lenses have a longer focus throw, which helps finding your focus. The Ai-S therefor is nice with it's short focus throw when taking snapshots, because you hardly ever have to regrip the focus ring when focusing from MFD to infinity.
Buddy

Roland Vink

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Re: Nikon 105/2.5 AI-s vs AI: changes between them?
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2019, 04:55:42 »
Good morning, I'd like to buy a Nikon 105/2.5 AI-s; I bought it a long time ago, but then sold it back. It was an AI-s version. My trusted retailer has got an AI version, today. Has AI version got the same rendering of the AI-s? About coating, instead? Thank you!!!
In case it is not clear from previous responses, the AI and AI-S have the same optical design, so they will render identically.
However the AI has curved aperture blades so the opening is rounder (but not fully rounded), giving background blurs a more organic appearance. The AI-S has straight edge aperture blades so blurs are distinctly polygonal (7-sided).

Both are fully multicoated, using Nikon Integrated Coating (NIC) which is a very good coating. Late production AI-S 105/2.5 lenses with serial no greater than 1043xxx have the newer yellow-green Super Integrated Coating (SIC), but I don't think it makes much difference in practice. If flare or contrast is a problem, shading the front element will make a bigger difference.

My preference is for the AI version due to the rounder aperture and also the longer focus throw. The built-in hood of the AI-S can be of use at times but it is on the short side and tends to be a little wobbly.