Author Topic: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system  (Read 34210 times)

Øivind Tøien

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Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
« Reply #735 on: March 13, 2019, 04:16:30 »

I thought banding in flickering light was a pretty well established byproduct of the electronic shutter when using silent mode (that both opens and closes the shutter). The electronic shutter does not open over the whole frame at a time,  but (horizontal) line by line. We have not gotten to the stage of instantaneous global shutters in these bodies - still too costly.
Øivind Tøien

Jack Dahlgren

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Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
« Reply #736 on: March 13, 2019, 05:12:51 »
I thought banding in flickering light was a pretty well established byproduct of the electronic shutter when using silent mode (that both opens and closes the shutter). The electronic shutter does not open over the whole frame at a time,  but (horizontal) line by line. We have not gotten to the stage of instantaneous global shutters in these bodies - still too costly.

Yes, even Nikon warns of this.

Frank Fremerey

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Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
« Reply #737 on: March 13, 2019, 08:55:14 »
Birna: I plead for more freelensing shots by you!!!!
You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Frank Fremerey

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Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
« Reply #738 on: March 13, 2019, 08:58:46 »
On another note, this is an example of the proverbial banding with silent shutter. All else equal, at 1/200th of a second, first shot with efc and second one with silent shutter. Even on the viewfinder the effect was present.

it is the same with the D850.

difficult to reproduce though. Sometimes I get the jalousie effect, sometimes not. Even in the same room with the same light the effect can be present in some shots of a session and in some not. To be on the safe side use mechanical shutter, which is not nice where silence is mandantory
You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

golunvolo

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Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
« Reply #739 on: March 14, 2019, 13:37:21 »
I went back to the museum yesterday to document the banding effect at different shutter speeds. I kept the iso at 1600 when possible adjusting the f number to compensate and only in the last two increasing the iso to go all the way up -not linear, I think, but close-
   I took the 1/50th speed reference given by Birna as starting point. Going slower didn´t make much difference so I stopped at 1/13th. Going in the other direction probed interesting so I went  all the way to 1/6400th of a second. I think the reference of "like a bad synchronized high speed flash" is accurate.
From 1/100th the banding is subtle but cleary there and gets worse fast.
I think it shows the approach by Nikon to achieve high speed shutters with slower read-out.
  I also added a picture of the lights  and a mixed lighting situation.

Birna Rørslett

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Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
« Reply #740 on: March 14, 2019, 16:46:25 »
Thanks Paco for taking time to redo this exercise.

I usually don't shoot in museums, but see a very similar phenomenon when shooting falling snow lit by street lamps.

Keep shutter speed preferably slower than a full cycle (50Hz in Europe) and you'll be fine -- no banding.

golunvolo

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Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
« Reply #741 on: March 14, 2019, 17:36:10 »
My pleasure.
I don't shoot in museums normaly but theater lights are changing to led more and more and that's my concern. Learning to deal with it may be crucial soon. Led color being the second biggest potencial issue.

gryphon1911

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Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
« Reply #742 on: March 14, 2019, 17:37:44 »
My pleasure.
I don't shoot in museums normaly but theater lights are changing to led more and more and that's my concern. Learning to deal with it may be crucial in soon. Led color being the second biggest potencial issue.

Even shooting video, LED color lights can cause issues.   I struggle with this every Sunday.  I think right now my hurdle to overcome is the equipment.
Andrew Livelsberger

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JJChan

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Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
« Reply #743 on: March 15, 2019, 02:55:16 »
Question for Birna:

How do AI-s lenses like Noct/105 2.5/28 2.8 do with the Z7 vs Z6? I'm currently undecided as to which Z to purchase and am wary that one may be more forgiving with old lenses than the other.
On saying that, old lenses work well enough for me on D850 so the question may be academic

TIA

tommiejeep

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Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
« Reply #744 on: March 15, 2019, 03:09:25 »
My pleasure.
I don't shoot in museums normaly but theater lights are changing to led more and more and that's my concern. Learning to deal with it may be crucial soon. Led color being the second biggest potencial issue.
Paco, yes, all of the venues I shoot in are modernizing.  Tungsten is gone but several conflicting types of energy saving lights and some venues have mixtures due to funds.  Means I really need to check each venue before going to shoot and check which lights will be on for the shoot.   Fortunately one venue where we shoot a Charity concert twice a year is a very old building and they will do it all at once at some point (they will re-wire the concert hall completely.
Tom
Tom Hardin, Goa, India

Jack Dahlgren

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Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
« Reply #745 on: March 15, 2019, 05:01:04 »
Question for Birna:

How do AI-s lenses like Noct/105 2.5/28 2.8 do with the Z7 vs Z6? I'm currently undecided as to which Z to purchase and am wary that one may be more forgiving with old lenses than the other.
On saying that, old lenses work well enough for me on D850 so the question may be academic

TIA

I only have used the Z6 and don’t have. Nice, but all my old AI lenses perform well. I get tired of saying this, but zooming focus on the EVF and having the lenses stabilized with IBIS makes using them easier than ever. I can only imagine that the Z7 will perform well too.

Birna Rørslett

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Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
« Reply #746 on: March 15, 2019, 06:06:04 »
I can only repeat what Jack already stated. The 'classic' Nikkors continue to do their service on the new camera range. On the Z7 zoom lenses such as the 35-200/3.5-4.5 begin to show a mild decline in ultimate quality compared to the best Nikkors, but I would be hard pressed to claim they *cannot* be used. Z6 is more forgiving and is the camera most used by me.

The only caveat is that slow wide-angle lenses in poor light sometimes can be tricky to focus with the EVF. Those are lenses such as 15/5.6 etc. which needed a dedicated screen (R-type in case of the 15) on an SLR anyway, so nothing really new here.

JJChan

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Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
« Reply #747 on: March 15, 2019, 08:51:26 »
Thanks Jack and Birna
There's a massive sale on here in Perth and Z6s (sold out) and Z7s are discounted about 25%. In addition, purchase of an S lens adds an additional 10% off so my resistance to buying more gear has finally gone.
I was hoping to use the Leica as a mirrorless with attached EVF but it is not really usable and the sensor is not as pliable as the Nikon ones.

JJ

richardHaw

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Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
« Reply #748 on: March 16, 2019, 05:44:15 »
True Story:

I was supposed to go out and buy the Nikon Z6...the mailman arrived and delivered a battered-but working Nikon FM3a.  :o :o :o

I thought to myself...do I really need the best and the latest when all I take are pictures of Japanese aunties and drunk salarymen.  ::)

BOOM, instant satori (Buddhist "realization moment"). what I really want is a Nikon Df2  ::)

Fons Baerken

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Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
« Reply #749 on: March 16, 2019, 08:49:57 »
True Story:

I was supposed to go out and buy the Nikon Z6...the mailman arrived and delivered a battered-but working Nikon FM3a.  :o :o :o

I thought to myself...do I really need the best and the latest when all I take are pictures of Japanese aunties and drunk salarymen.  ::)

BOOM, instant satori (Buddhist "realization moment"). what I really want is a Nikon Df2  ::)


 ;D