Author Topic: 4/300 PF and 5.6/500 PF for Z?  (Read 2235 times)

jpgrahn

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4/300 PF and 5.6/500 PF for Z?
« on: September 29, 2018, 15:11:24 »
Nikon's roadmap doesn't contain any really long lenses.
What do you think?
Is it difficult for Nikon to "convert", that is to redesign these two lenses, to work natively on Z-cameras?
They are quite new and my guess is that they already at that time knew what was in the pipeline.
Would they need new internals or is it enough to permanently so to speak attach an FTZ adapter?
Johan Grahn

Jan Anne

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Re: 4/300 PF and 5.6/500 PF for Z?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2018, 15:26:24 »
I don't think Nikon is targeting the tele crowd with the current Z cameras but will be when they announce a D5 like mirrorless body, native tele lenses will probably be co announced.

Sony did something similar, in the first years they didn't offer any tele option as the technology wasn't ready yet to make it work reliably but the 100-400 and 400/2.8 where announced around the same time the a9 sports camera was announced.
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Hugh_3170

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Re: 4/300 PF and 5.6/500 PF for Z?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2018, 15:36:24 »
I spent about 15 minutes this afternoon trying out the FTZ on a Z7 and some of my own lenses, and I think that the answer to this question is a Yes.

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Would they need new internals or is it enough to permanently so to speak attach an FTZ adapter?
Hugh Gunn

MILLIREHM

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Re: 4/300 PF and 5.6/500 PF for Z?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2018, 23:29:19 »
Nikon's roadmap doesn't contain any really long lenses.
What do you think?
Is it difficult for Nikon to "convert", that is to redesign these two lenses, to work natively on Z-cameras?
They are quite new and my guess is that they already at that time knew what was in the pipeline.
Would they need new internals or is it enough to permanently so to speak attach an FTZ adapter?

I think that Nikon does not need to start with long lenses for Z because the current arsenal (including the two PFs) can be used both with F and Z mount cameras. And they are long anyway so the FTZ adapter does not add too much. Those planning to use Z and F in parallel probably wont prefer long lenses working on Z only. Future times beyond the current roadmap will change that and maybe we will see native dedicated Z Tele designs.

There are not too many tele lenses in the DX line as well (few zooms and no primes) BTW.

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Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: 4/300 PF and 5.6/500 PF for Z?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2018, 12:08:29 »
Nikon's roadmap doesn't contain any really long lenses.

At present appear to Nikon target the Z cameras for applications and users who benefit/prefer from compactness, smaller size, short focal length lenses that allow benefits to be gained from the new mount. Applications such as portraits, travel, landscape, video seem to be emphasized, not wildlife action or sports.

Their intention is to develop F and Z systems to take advantage of the benefits of each technology. I.e. they will make Z cameras and lenses that take specific advantages from the mirrorless technology and F mount cameras and lenses that take advantage of the DSLR technology. At present I suspect Nikon consider that the DSLRs are better for telephoto action than the Z cameras, and user reports also suggest the AF tracking of moving subjects in the Z isn't at the level of the high end DSLR. So why make expensive new lenses that don't work as well as F mount lenses (on F mount cameras?) for the intended applications? I think the camera technology needs to be developed to such a level that this type of lenses make sense to design. (Yes, I understand the Sony A9 but it is not clear if Nikon can do that.)

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Is it difficult for Nikon to "convert", that is to redesign these two lenses, to work natively on Z-cameras?

The FTZ seems to be designed in such a way that it is robust and feels like one piece with the camera, so there probably isn't too much disadvantage from using this with F mount lenses instead. If a lens is "converted" to another mount then it cannot be used with the F mount cameras after that, which may reduce its resale value given the large number of F mount cameras in use. To take advantage of the full feature set of the Z cameras, new motors and electronics would need to be designed and implemented in the conversion so that AF works optimally, and the motor solution is also tied to optical design. Even though Sigma offers a conversion service the cost is such that it is probably more sensible to sell the lens and buy a new one for the mount you want for most lenses rather than have the conversion made. Also it doesn't seem that they really optimized the new E mount versions for the E mount in such a way that would be done if they had started from scratch. I think Nikon will want to make new lenses for Z mount from scratch to take optimal advantage of the new mount and the cameras' features rather than offer a conversion service.


MILLIREHM

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Re: 4/300 PF and 5.6/500 PF for Z?
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2018, 13:21:31 »
I second what Ilkka said
There also was a statement by Nikon somewhere that Z-mount should offer advanages for long telephoto construction but it is hard to believe.
Sony had a long learning curve to be able to release a A9 and Nikon just started. We might see some Z8 or Z9 that is more towards the A9 direction. I doubt whether the current A9 is on par with D5/D500 in terms of sports and wildlife capability namedly AF-quality and speed, cache size
Wolfgang Rehm

Akira

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Re: 4/300 PF and 5.6/500 PF for Z?
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2018, 14:09:51 »
To me, the real advantage of mirrorless over DSLR in this context is the absense of the descrepancy between the indicatio and the real coverage of AF points as well as that of the AF sensor and the image sensor.
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jpgrahn

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Re: 4/300 PF and 5.6/500 PF for Z?
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2018, 09:50:20 »
Thanks. I don't have any objections to your points.
My thinking was mostly that Sony had to go from scratch in the development of longer telephoto lenses. Like the 2.8/400.
Nikon instead has many long lenses and it seems to me to be easier to just more or less permanently attach a converter to those lenses to fill out the lens line.
Of course I realize the point that you can't use such a converted lens on say a D850 or D5 camera body any longer.
Maybe it is possible to produce the lenses in parallell where we customers, not that I am one, can decide if we want to go all the way with Z-mount.
The 300 and 500 PF lenses would seem to be a good start especially since they are so small.
Johan Grahn

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: 4/300 PF and 5.6/500 PF for Z?
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2018, 12:15:23 »
Maybe it is possible to produce the lenses in parallell where we customers, not that I am one, can decide if we want to go all the way with Z-mount.

I don't think it makes sense to launch native Z mount superteles without a camera that is sufficiently advanced that it is better or equal to D5/D500/D850 in autofocus in most circumstances where such lenses might be applied. The autofocus involves development of camera body and lens, and if Nikon launch a lens now without being able to test the performance expectations are met on the future action body then it could end up an expensive dead weight if the body turns out to require a yet another updated version of the lens to perform competitively (with mirrorless AF).  Once they have the body it seems plausible that native long lenses could follow, assuming that that's what the customers prefer.

But, since Nikon's intention is to develop the two systems in parallel (but each to their area of superiority, not necessarily both to all applications) it is possible they improve DSLR AF in the next generation sufficiently that might lead to returning to previous status quo (or it might not). It depends on what is achievable using each technology.

Birna Rørslett

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Re: 4/300 PF and 5.6/500 PF for Z?
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2018, 12:40:19 »
At this, yet hypothetical point in the future, Nikon could simply sell their long lenses as a kit with removable rear extension, the latter only being used with the lens mounted on a Z-series body. Or you could order an F or Z version, but both easily interchangeable as needs be.