Author Topic: StackShot Automated Macro-Rail: First Impressions  (Read 8193 times)

Michael Erlewine

  • Close-Up Photographer
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 2047
  • Close-Up with APO
    • Spirit Grooves
StackShot Automated Macro-Rail: First Impressions
« on: April 10, 2018, 02:13:19 »
I have been stacking focus for many years now, so I’m no stranger to this technique. And the track of my learning curve (more like a spiral) has been fueled by my using better and better corrected lenses (APO) to enhance the stacking. In other words, the more finely corrected the lenses, the more careful I have to be in stacking, and on around. It’s like a Catch-22.

I get lots of emails and messages about my photos. And not infrequently (at least from photographers) is the question as to whether I have tried one of the automated focus rails. In the past, I have taken a certain amount of pride in pointing out to these folks that I can stack quite well manually, thank you very much. I had no intention of varying my technique.

Yet, as I pointed out above, the circular spiral of finer lenses and precise stacking led to more and better apochromatic lenses, like the Zeiss Otus series, the APO-El Nikkor 105, the Leica Elmarit-R APO 100mm macro, and so on. I pretty-much took these fine lenses in stride, hopefully learning to use them more and more skillfully.

Then comes the Schneider Macro Varon 85mm industrial lens. I had kind of heard about this lens on and off for some time, but never had seen one come up used on Ebay and even trying to get availability and a firm price from the manufacturer and distributors was difficult. It was almost as if they did not want to sell to me because I was not a company that required industrial lens for line-scanning. I wrote them. I called them on the phone.

A more detailed story about the Macro Varon would require a separate article. Suffice it to say that a good friend of mine, another photographer, sent me a FB message telling me that a Macro Varon just came up of Ebay and at an attractive price at that. It took all of perhaps one minute and I had bought it. It was not an impulse buy, because I had decided to get one quite a while ago, just not pay the retail prince of about $4500. Ouch!

The Makro Varon is a very highly corrected lens, certainly worthy of the name APO. However, perhaps most remarkable was that this was a lens built for a wide range of magnifications, which is unusual for industrial lenses, which usually have a very limited magnification range at which they are at optimum sharpness. The Macro Varon even has a separate ring to compensate for whichever reproduction-ratio is used, actually moving the inner lens elements around to accommodate that reproduction range. And, interestingly enough, its specs showed me that it could easily outperform the sensor of my fairly new Nikon D850. “Hmmmm, I mused. I’d like to see that.”

And see it I did and pretty quickly too. But such a revelation soon led me to rethinking my bias against automated focus rails. It was not that I could not stack well, but I continue to get older and I am old enough as it is, and the little bumps, jars, and vibrations caused by me began to be more visible; they got in the way.

Anyway, back to this blog. So, there I was, reading about the StackShot, when before I knew it my finger was hitting the return-key to order a copy. And to my surprise, the company (Cognisys) was right here in Michigan, only just up the road from where I live, in Traverse City.

So, it was only a day or so before the automated-rail turned up at my door. However, learning to use StackShot was a bit of puzzle. It actually is very simple, but the manual is SO complete that finding the simple in it is hard. At least that’s how it struck me. I just wanted to get going right away and stack something, but although eventually that was easy, at first it was not so.

And also, this device is meant for many kinds (or ways) of stacking. It took me a while to figure out what the name for what I wanted to do was. I finally did (Automatic Distance) and, as mentioned, it could not be simpler. Well, it could be explained more simply. LOL. As a software developer myself since the early 1970s, I recognized the kind of manual that indeed was precise, but is no beginner’s guide. I told them so.

The problem was, IMO, how do I find what increment or step makes sense for the kind of close-up focus-stacking that I do. I don’t need the kind of detail one needs for stacking a bee’s knees, but I do need enough overlap of images to make the rendering of the stack smooth with no banding.

Of course, I called the support line at Cognisys and spoke with a very nice person, only too willing to help. The problem was that at each question, each point where I was stuck, he pointed out that this or that particular choice was variable, very variable. So after fifteen minutes or so, I was right back where I started from, having to figure it out for myself. What’s new? Story of my life! LOL.

And it took a while for me to run many stacks at different step-sizes to find a step-size that gave me what I was looking for and not one that took all day by over-stacking what probably couldn’t be seen. I wasn’t stacking a microscope image, but just a flower or two.

I messaged Rik Littlefield, creator of Zerene Stacker, the stacking software I use, and asked him about over sampling. His response was that it won’t harm anything to make too many images, but it might add a wee bit of extra noise.

After a few happy days with StackShot, here is where I am at. So far, it looks like the more detail you can get with the smaller increments with Stackshot, the better the result, within reason.

StackShot likes to work in thousandths-of-an-inch or in millimeters or fractions there of, your choice. I found myself working with MLS, thousandths of an inch, a setting of 20 Mls seems pretty good. 10 MLS is slightly better, but perhaps not worth the extra time, etc. A lot depends on keeping the light even, which is hard with variable cloudiness.

My thoughts on using the StackShot automatic-rail are positive. I have stacked for many years, always barely touching the focus barrel or whatever mechanism is required. I got pretty good at it, but also made little accidental bumps and knocks, which have never helped at all. And, as I drill down on these ultra-sharp industrial lenses that can challenge the sensor of even the Nikon D850, there is less room for user-caused error and a greater demand for regular precise increments.

After many years of focus stacking, my most valuable learned skills are in setting up and composing the shot, although I have always done my best to move carefully through all the steps that focus-stacking requires. However, having tried out StackShot, I am convinced it has a lot to offer me in stability and consistency, leaving me more time to consider what shot I want to take. I am enjoying that.

I have a fair amount of testing the Stackshot yet to do, but I am already getting a handle on it. By testing various step-sizes, I am already converging on what seems to work for me. I’m not doing photo-micography, but rather just simple close-up and macro photography.

Of the many options that StackShot offers, the one I seem to be gravitating to is Automatic-Distance, which allows me to choose the granularity, the step-size, that works best for my work. In other words, I have one main step size that will be applied no matter what scope or distance I want to cover. Should that not be fine enough, I can easily make if finer, etc. The only caveat might be with spherical objects, where following the curve demands finer steps, IMO.

So, the step sizes I have selltled on should work. Physically, the StackShot is very well made, meaning it is robust, as strong or stronger than any other focus rail I have and I have ten or so. Its vertical profile for my camera is low, about as low as it could be and I have fitted it with my favorite RRS Arca quick-release clamp, the one with a larger knob. I can see no way that this is not better than what I have been doing myself by hand.

And the program allows me to introduce all kinds of latency time, which I have done, so that at each movement of the auto rail, I take a second or so to let any vibrations created by the mechanism movement subside.

The only problem, which has nothing to do with StackShot, is that since I use natural light, on a variably-cloudy day the lighting changes from moment to moment and affects the stack. To counter this, I would have to be standing there, slightly modifying the shutter moment-by-moment to keep the light stable. That kind of takes the auto out of automatic, but that’s the price we pay for natural light. It varies.

So, my initial impression of the StackShot is not only good, but very good, almost something like “where-have-you-been-all-my-life?” good. I like it.

As for taking the time I am used to spending stacking focus at the camera away from me, which I traditionally associate with meditative absorption on my part, it does not seem a problem. My hard-won skills are seeing the shot and setting up for it. With StackShot, I do the creative work and let an expert step through the mechanics while I do other stuff. Makes sense and seems fine.

StackShot is easily rough enough to take into the field, provided you realize that it is heavy and if you don’t have any wind. Here in Michigan, I wait to see each day if there is no wind at first light. Rare, but it happens.

A Hidden Surprise

Surprise, surprise! There is almost always a surprise with new equipment. Using stackshot made one thing very clear. By standardizing the process of focus stacking (the mechanical part) all lenses were treated equally.

It’s true that I always did my best to incrementally stack focus as carefully as I could. But, I cannot pretend that on any given day, I may have stacked looser or tighter, even or less even. I can only guess at the variation.

But one thing is clear so far from using the StackShot and that is that the regularity of increments (the step size) reveals more clearly than I have ever seen the true or actual difference between any of these highly corrected lenses. It is clear that some of these lens differences were veiled by the more organic (sloppy) process of stacking by hand and not by auto-stacking.   

However, by regulating the stacking process it creates a much more level playing field. And I found it very easy to see the differences between lenses, many of which I could never before be certain about.

And so, whatever else auto-rail stacking provides (and there is a lot) a wonderful bonus in allowing me to see more clearly than ever how lenses differ, something I have always strained to see (regardless of all the graphs) for myself. By stacking in a more regulated manner removes (at least for me) a veil that has been obscuring these difference all of this time.

Below are a couple of tables that might be useful. StackShot likes to work in thousandths-of-an-inch or in millimeters or fractions there of.

1 Millimeter = 39.3701 Thousandth of an Inch

1 thousandth of an inch in is equal to 25.40 μm
Thousandths-inch TO MILLIMETER

10-mils = 0.254 Millimeters
15-mils = 0.381 Millimeters
20-mils = 0.508 Millimeters
25-mils = 0.635 Millimeters
30-mils = 0.762 Millimeters
35-mils = 0.889 Millimeters
39-mils = 0.9906 Millimeters
39.37 mils = 1 Millimeter

MILLIMETER to Thousandths-inch

.25 MM = 9.84 Mils
.333 MM = 13.11 Mils
.5 MM = 19.685 Mils
.666 MM = 26.22
.75 MM =29.5276 Mils
1 MM = 39.37 Mils
1.25 MM = 49.2126 Mils
1.5 MM = 59.055 Mils
2 MM = 78.7 Mils
2.5 MM = 98.42 Mils
3 MM = 118.11 Mils
3.5 = 137.8 Mils
4 = 157.5 Mils
4.5 = 177.2 Mils
5 = 197 Mils

Here are three example images, both done with StackShot, one with the Schneider Macro Varon f/4.5 and another with the APO-El Nikkor 105mm f/5.6. A third one is with the Nikkor “O” CRT lens. Also, a poor-quality shot (shot at night in bad lighting) of the StackShot controller (Vecro-ed to a post) and the basic StackShot setup. Note the RRS Quick-Release Clamp with the large knob.
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com, Daily Blog at https://www.facebook.com/MichaelErlewine. main site: SpiritGrooves.net, https://www.youtube.com/user/merlewine, Founder: MacroStop.com, All-Music Guide, All-Movie Guide, Classic Posters.com, Matrix Software, DharmaGrooves.com

richardHaw

  • Cute Panda from the East...
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 3140
  • Your lens loverboy
    • Classic Nikkor Maintenance and DIY
Re: StackShot Automated Macro-Rail: First Impressions
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2018, 03:42:28 »
always wanted to buy one but I just cannot justify it. it is a very good system.  :o :o :o

Macro_Cosmos

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 340
    • Flickr
Re: StackShot Automated Macro-Rail: First Impressions
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2018, 07:01:54 »
 ;) Lovely photos as usual Michael, I love your work! I'd like to help out a bit as well, and expand on my personal experiences too.

"The only problem, which has nothing to do with StackShot, is that since I use natural light, on a variably-cloudy day the lighting changes from moment to moment and affects the stack. To counter this, I would have to be standing there, slightly modifying the shutter moment-by-moment to keep the light stable. That kind of takes the auto out of automatic, but that’s the price we pay for natural light. It varies."
This is indeed arguably the reason why manual stacking will always remain superior to automated methods. The most important aspect of reproduction work is the human brain behind the camera, lighting, and then the hardware used. One may put stability of setup there as well if we're talking about high magnification work. With that being said, I prefer automated methods. I am able to just leave and work on other projects while the setup does the work for me. This is especially useful when I stitch panoramas. A stack of 100 being taken while I process the previous stack in Zerene Stacker. More efficient!

To those who use artificial strobe lighting, it never hurts to oversample. Oversampling will vindicate the main problem with strobe lights, that being misfiring. My step size is usually the theoretical step size times 3. I use constant lighting though, so misfiring is not a problem (there's other problems with artificial lighting that I could go on and on about).

This is the prime reason why natural light is the best:

Perhaps that was not clear enough. Basically, natural light entails the entire visible spectrum to our eyes. Constant lighting and strobe lighting has its pros and cons as well. Natural lighting as elucidated above would be "constraint to environment". My lab is in a dark section of the house, and I am not lugging my 50kg setup into the garden.  ::)

With regards to the stackshot, which model did you purchase? I have the stackshot 3x. It is a great tool, I opened it, and after 10 minutes, I am putting out stacks. The touchscreen is indispensable! I do have many complaints though, which are really just nitpicking:
1. Sometimes, settings are lost. I always save my settings in case this happens.
2. The accessories are expensive, like... really really expensive!
a. A bracket to attach the setup so it hangs off the rail is $195!!!!
https://www.cognisys-inc.com/store/controller-carrier-kit.html
This is just ridiculous. I also question the stability after hanging the box off the rail. This accessory is in my opinion, inferior and expensive.

b. An arca swiss replacement plate and clamp is $148. Ridiculous.
https://www.cognisys-inc.com/store/quick-release-clamp.html
https://www.cognisys-inc.com/store/adapter-plate.html

For a. I made an impromptu bracket that allows me to mount the stackshot to my tripod. It can either hang off the rail or get mounted to the tripod's centre thread (intended for a hook to hang stuff off of). The cost is basically nothing. I used the almighty velcro to stick a used cheapo L-bracket to the back of the controller. A Chinese clamp is used to clamp onto the bracket, which then connects to a small ballhead, allowing me to articulate the angle in any direction I desire. The $195 thingy does not do that even.
I am currently planning on an even better solution. I'm going to make a case out of acrylic perspex, and mount an arca-swiss compatible plate to the bottom. This not only protects the controller, it also doesn't require sticking velcro to its back. I can mount the controller onto my tripod via a ballhead, which can be clamped onto the legs or mounted to the threads I mentioned above via a bracket. This solution will probably cost $15, and a bit of time. Also it will be fun, DIY time!

For b, I use the excellent Hejnar system:
Stackshot with Arca Clamp by Macro Cosmos (DH)
Hejnar Photo Accessories by Macro Cosmos (DH)
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Arca-Type-Adapter-with-Clamp-4-COGNISYS-StockShot-RRS-Kirk-Wimberley-Foba/232444469192?hash=item361ec51fc8:g:vS0AAOSwl-FZjj8c
I highly recommend this conversion kit. You will be able to have the clamp completely centred, aligned, and fixated to the rail. $89 is a steal really. My offer of $79 was accepted too.

3. No hex keys.
Seriously...  ::)
Thankfully the Hejnar kit came with hex keys! None of mine fit. My drawer of some 50 hex keys, all tried, nothing worked. I was stunned really.

However, I think the Stackshot 3x kit is worth every cent. Their customer support is also great, and responsive. I asked for the schematics of the base arca-swiss dovetail and the pin-out of the controller, all provided. Need any detailed information? Just contact their support  :)

I have used the Wemacro stacker as well, it is a lot cheaper, and in my opinion, you get more than what you paid for. It allows controls via a smartphone application. The stackshot controller is able to control the wemacro rail as well, with the correct plug conversion. An easy jobby. I also have a rotary stage yet to be used. As long as the motor is a 2-phase bipolar stepping motor, it will work.

For my capstone project, I'm going to write a detailed book on photomacrography, focus stacking, from software to hardware. I'm looking forward to it.  ;D

Photomicrography gallery: Instagram
Blog: Diatoms Australia
Andor Zyla 5.5 sCMOS | Hamamatsu ORCA-Flash V2 | Nikon Z6 | Olympus Microscope

Dr Klaus Schmitt

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1005
Re: StackShot Automated Macro-Rail: First Impressions
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2018, 07:58:16 »
Wonderful write-up and great to share your story with it and the lenses too. I haven't had time to try my MV85mm from same seller out yet, as I'm working on a speech I have to give on a conference in Denver soon. But once back, I will have time to!

I have the StackShot, too since many years, and used it successfully for a BBC film production for automated macro and stereo shots and it is a wonderful tool for that - as long as you do not program it to drive back and forth, that is not its strong point, as there is too much slack.
formerly known as kds315

David H. Hartman

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2783
  • I Doctor Photographs... :)
Re: StackShot Automated Macro-Rail: First Impressions
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2018, 08:19:48 »
Outstanding photographs, beautiful. The discussion looks very interesting. I hope I get a change to read this thread tomorrow.

Thank you Michael and Marco!

Dave Hartman
Beatniks are out to make it rich
Oh no, must be the season of the witch!

JKoerner007

  • Guest
Re: StackShot Automated Macro-Rail: First Impressions
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2018, 13:19:55 »
The only problem, which has nothing to do with StackShot, is that since I use natural light, on a variably-cloudy day the lighting changes from moment to moment and affects the stack. To counter this, I would have to be standing there, slightly modifying the shutter moment-by-moment to keep the light stable. That kind of takes the auto out of automatic, but that’s the price we pay for natural light. It varies."
This is indeed arguably the reason why manual stacking will always remain superior to automated methods. The most important aspect of reproduction work is the human brain behind the camera, lighting, and then the hardware used. One may put stability of setup there as well if we're talking about high magnification work. With that being said, I prefer automated methods. I am able to just leave and work on other projects while the setup does the work for me. This is especially useful when I stitch panoramas. A stack of 100 being taken while I process the previous stack in Zerene Stacker. More efficient!

I agree with this as well.

I have a constant lighting source for my studio, right at my desk, but it never produces the finer/subtle colors that natural light does.

When I stack in natural light, I usually hand-stack outdoors (much fewer stacks), but the colors are always better.

I like to travel light when I hike, but will be bringing my automated rail outdoors more often ... on "macro only" days ... when I leave my D500 + bird lens home :)


I have used the Wemacro stacker as well, it is a lot cheaper, and in my opinion, you get more than what you paid for. It allows controls via a smartphone application. The stackshot controller is able to control the wemacro rail as well, with the correct plug conversion. An easy jobby. I also have a rotary stage yet to be used. As long as the motor is a 2-phase bipolar stepping motor, it will work.

I went with the WeMacro over Stackshot, simply because it's a far better deal. You get a battery pack, free, for the field, a camou case to hold it, and the fact you can control it with an app on your cell phone seals the deal for making it the superior, more-mobile choice if you want to use the device for natural applications. The only advantage Stackshot offers is their controller ... which, as you say, can be adapted to the WeMacro.

Another benefit to the WeMacro is it is twice as precise, going all the way down to 1μm steps, whereas the Stackshot is limited to 2μm steps. The WeMacro is also less noisy and reportedly has less backlash. You get a helluva lot more for a $249 purchase than Stackshot gives you for a $1000+ purchase. (As you point out, Stackshot charges you "extra" for everything, even the cable connectors, the camera trigger cable, and battery ... all at ridiculous prices ... which add up quickly ... all of which are included free with the WeMacro rail purchase.) I also happen to like the look of the WeMacro better, which can be used integrated with Helicon Focus.

Regarding stacking programs, I have purchased both Helicon Focus as well as Zerene "Premium/Professional" versions ... and the Zerene platform looks anything but "professional," like it came from the ancient MS DOS era, and is embarrassingly barebones and "un"professional in appearance. By contrast, Helicon Focus operates from a fully-enhanced, modern (yes) professional platform. (The Helicon 'look' is similar to Lightroom.) The Helicon Premium version also comes with Helicon Remote, free, which adds a remote software system-control program to the package, again professional in appearance (for $49 less than Zerene Pro, which gives nothing extra), making it a far better deal overall.

However, from a strictly performance/stacking standpoint, I can't say one software system is "better" than the other; but I prefer to use Helicon normally. (It's about 3x as fast as Zerene also.) Functionally, Helicon Focus and Zerene both offer Depth-Map (my definite preference), as well as Pyramid-stack options, but Helicon also offers a third ("weighted average") option that Zerene does not. However, I find Zerene's touch-up more ergonomically-intuitive. In the end, sometimes the results from each program are "equal," sometimes not so much. When I have a bad result with a particular stack using one platform, I will try stacking it in the other. For whatever reason, sometimes one program will "handle it" better than the other. (And sometimes the Photoshop CC stacking platform will work better than both ... although not usually ... not to mention Photoshop is the slowest-processing program of all. You have to shave, twice, before it finishes a deep stack :) )

One thing is for sure: Zerene canNOT handle movement well at all, which is often a reality in nature stacks with the presence of wind, some subject movement, etc.
Helicon Focus /Photoshop will handle subtle movement much better and "adjust" each image internally to still "match" the one before the movement happened.

Edit: However, if (pardon the pun) "all things are in alignment," then Zerene Stacker can really nail it ... and achieve a level of sharpness that the others do not seem to match. Therefore, in the end (IMO), all 3 stacking programs are required, to vet your efforts, so you can select the program which best-handles each unique stacking job you undertake.

Frank Fremerey

  • engineering art
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 12361
  • Bonn, Germany
Re: StackShot Automated Macro-Rail: First Impressions
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2018, 13:28:56 »
I love your story telling and I love your results, esp the EL 105 result blows me away. I feel the next curtain has fallen and Michael Erlewine has made us see his flowers afresh, again!


Concerning the slight differences in natural lighting: you could possibly integrate an industrial standard target into your frame (outside your composition in the bokeh-fields), fixate the measuring point to spot metering on it and let the camera Auto WB and Auto Expose on it. My D850 does that very nicely with no connection to the lens on my sinar, so should yours.

PS: Auto WB is not a risky technique with broad spectrum natural continuous light sources.
You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Me: https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey/

Michael Erlewine

  • Close-Up Photographer
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 2047
  • Close-Up with APO
    • Spirit Grooves
Re: StackShot Automated Macro-Rail: First Impressions
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2018, 15:09:25 »
Concerning the slight differences in natural lighting: you could possibly integrate an industrial standard target into your frame (outside your composition in the bokeh-fields), fixate the measuring point to spot metering on it and let the camera Auto WB and Auto Expose on it. My D850 does that very nicely with no connection to the lens on my sinar, so should yours.

PS: Auto WB is not a risky technique with broad spectrum natural continuous light sources.

Sorry to be so ignorant, but if you have time, could you please give me step by step instructions as to how to set up what you described above? I never use any of these "auto" settings. I would appreciate a little instruction so I get it right. It sounds like a great idea.
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com, Daily Blog at https://www.facebook.com/MichaelErlewine. main site: SpiritGrooves.net, https://www.youtube.com/user/merlewine, Founder: MacroStop.com, All-Music Guide, All-Movie Guide, Classic Posters.com, Matrix Software, DharmaGrooves.com

Macro_Cosmos

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 340
    • Flickr
Re: StackShot Automated Macro-Rail: First Impressions
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2018, 16:00:36 »
Sorry to be so ignorant, but if you have time, could you please give me step by step instructions as to how to set up what you described above? I never use any of these "auto" settings. I would appreciate a little instruction so I get it right. It sounds like a great idea.

I use this:
http://www.datacolor.com/photography-design/product-overview/spydercube/

WB fixed. Auto WB is never accurate when constant lighting is used for me. That being said though, Janjso lights have heavy yellow cast.
Photomicrography gallery: Instagram
Blog: Diatoms Australia
Andor Zyla 5.5 sCMOS | Hamamatsu ORCA-Flash V2 | Nikon Z6 | Olympus Microscope

Macro_Cosmos

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 340
    • Flickr
Re: StackShot Automated Macro-Rail: First Impressions
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2018, 20:07:07 »
Another benefit to the WeMacro is it is twice as precise, going all the way down to 1μm steps, whereas the Stackshot is limited to 2μm steps.
On paper.
Remember to always be careful and never take a specification sheet as granted. I own both actually. The Wemacro rail may have a fine thread that's rated down to 1μm, but what about other aspects? You will find out if you have the stackshot too.

In addition to that, stackshot offers a high precision mode enabling 1μm. Stackshot also allows thrift and fast movements, whereas for wemacro, I'd have to constantly clutch on my phone and it goes abysmally slow. This should be fixable via a simple software update.

The issue with the high precision mode is that screeching motor. My ears can pickup sounds normal humans can't, not something to be happy about. I find being around some applications to be highly nauseating. I have earphones playing music while I use the Stackshot in high precision mode, and even at 100% volume, my ears pick up the screeching.  :'(

As you point out, Stackshot charges you "extra" for everything, even the cable connectors, the camera trigger cable, and battery
This is true, but there's alternatives to everything they want a lot for. There's the Hejnar plate, wemacro doesn't have a plate that guarantees centering. Maybe someone should make one, but the bottom line is wemacro doesn't have one, and doesn't have an optional purchase for one either. Maybe someone should make one. I don't want to have a clamp hanging off the wedge.
https://www.gumptrade.com/14120005501.html
This can be mounted onto the platform using 2 1/4'' bolts. A converter would be needed though. Still flimsy.
Battery... meh. I just use my vagabond mini. My wemacro didn't come with a battery. I didn't need to buy a shutter cable for my stackshot, I just used a 3.5mm one, the 3x takes it. The older one doesn't, but it's easy to DIY the cable.

and the Zerene platform looks anything but "professional," like it came from the ancient MS DOS era, and is embarrassingly barebones and "un"professional in appearance
Looks of the interface is not something I care about personally. I've used SPSS for some time, a statistical software. The GUI looks like it was designed in the 90s, haha. It performed pretty well for what it is. ZS has the better algorithms. HF is a lot faster and has some nice tools though. If you don't do high-mag stuff, then they are pretty much the same. For precise stacks, I use both algorithms and use masking to get the best of both worlds.

However, if (pardon the pun) "all things are in alignment," then Zerene Stacker can really nail it ... and achieve a level of sharpness that the others do not seem to match. Therefore, in the end (IMO), all 3 stacking programs are required, to vet your efforts, so you can select the program which best-handles each unique stacking job you undertake.
Yeah, this is totally true. PS does a really good job too, despite making my laptop unusable for several minutes. For nature stacks, sometimes a DIY windshield does wonders. A cheap solution I can think of is simply buying one of those cheap China light tents and cutting through it.

And I finally got frustrated enough with the abysmal focus throw of my 85mm pc-e, now shipped off to Germany. Sold for a lot more than what I paid for. Have you received the Laowa 25mm yet? Would love to see what you can do with it. My studies are getting overwhelming, no time to shoot  :-[
Photomicrography gallery: Instagram
Blog: Diatoms Australia
Andor Zyla 5.5 sCMOS | Hamamatsu ORCA-Flash V2 | Nikon Z6 | Olympus Microscope

Dr Klaus Schmitt

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1005
Re: StackShot Automated Macro-Rail: First Impressions
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2018, 08:48:35 »
Don't forget to mention that "nice" slack StackShot has when moving back and forth, not precise at all; I recommend to only go in one direction.

My friend here in Germany has built a much better and more precise system, at highest resolution it resolves beyond 1 micron (approx 0.3) and no slack at all when moving back and forth. Here about it (but so far only in German language): http://www.stonemaster.eu/products/stackunit and here https://www.stonemaster-onlineshop.de/fotografieren/stacking/stackmaster/ also available in high precision variant, smallest step increment 0.1 micron.

formerly known as kds315

JKoerner007

  • Guest
Re: StackShot Automated Macro-Rail: First Impressions
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2018, 04:48:11 »
On paper. Remember to always be careful and never take a specification sheet as granted. I own both actually. The Wemacro rail may have a fine thread that's rated down to 1μm, but what about other aspects? You will find out if you have the stackshot too.

Honestly, I don't need the Stackshot. "The other" aspects are found in the controller, which could be ordered by itself.


In addition to that, stackshot offers a high precision mode enabling 1μm. Stackshot also allows thrift and fast movements, whereas for wemacro, I'd have to constantly clutch on my phone and it goes abysmally slow. This should be fixable via a simple software update.

In studio, I have WeMacro connected to my desktop. In the field, the phone allows you a freedom the Stackshot can't match.

Either way, you can control how fast, or slow, the shots come from the WeMacro. I don't find it abysmally-slow; it goes as fast or slow as I configure it to go.


The issue with the high precision mode is that screeching motor. My ears can pickup sounds normal humans can't, not something to be happy about. I find being around some applications to be highly nauseating. I have earphones playing music while I use the Stackshot in high precision mode, and even at 100% volume, my ears pick up the screeching.  :'(

Last time we spoke, you said you got to bed at 5am ... now you're saying you ears pick-up sounds "normal humans can't" ...

Are you a vampire? Should I call you Dracula from now on? :D ;D


This is true, but there's alternatives to everything they want a lot for. There's the Hejnar plate, wemacro doesn't have a plate that guarantees centering. Maybe someone should make one, but the bottom line is wemacro doesn't have one, and doesn't have an optional purchase for one either. Maybe someone should make one. I don't want to have a clamp hanging off the wedge.
https://www.gumptrade.com/14120005501.html
This can be mounted onto the platform using 2 1/4'' bolts. A converter would be needed though. Still flimsy.

Actually, neither company offers a plate with the core purchase, so that point is moot. The buyer can get his own plate secured just fine with either.

The point is, WeMacro offers far more 'extras,' for a great core purchase price, while StackShot offers no extras at a high (more than double) price.


Battery... meh. I just use my vagabond mini. My wemacro didn't come with a battery. I didn't need to buy a shutter cable for my stackshot, I just used a 3.5mm one, the 3x takes it. The older one doesn't, but it's easy to DIY the cable.

Skirting the point again, though. If you already had the surplus supplies referenced, you still had to 'buy them extra' (at some time) to have them laying around.

The point is, after paying $550 with Stackshot, you still have to buy all the cables ($39), the battery ($99), etc.
With WeMacro, however, after paying only $249 (less than half) these amenities (connecting cables + field-ready battery box) come FREE with the purchase. You have to supply your own lithium batteries, so it's not as nice as Stackshot's; but it's not $100 extra, either.


Looks of the interface is not something I care about personally. I've used SPSS for some time, a statistical software. The GUI looks like it was designed in the 90s, haha. It performed pretty well for what it is. ZS has the better algorithms. HF is a lot faster and has some nice tools though. If you don't do high-mag stuff, then they are pretty much the same. For precise stacks, I use both algorithms and use masking to get the best of both worlds.

We agree, and I use them both as well.


Yeah, this is totally true. PS does a really good job too, despite making my laptop unusable for several minutes. For nature stacks, sometimes a DIY windshield does wonders. A cheap solution I can think of is simply buying one of those cheap China light tents and cutting through it.

Indeed.


And I finally got frustrated enough with the abysmal focus throw of my 85mm pc-e, now shipped off to Germany. Sold for a lot more than what I paid for. Have you received the Laowa 25mm yet? Would love to see what you can do with it. My studies are getting overwhelming, no time to shoot  :-[

Unless you're a collector (and sometimes even then), you have to give less-useful lenses the ol' heave-ho ;D

As for my Laowa order, it has not shipped yet :(

As an enticement to buy, Laowa said "will ship late March" ...

When late March came, and I inquired, Laowa's response was "by mid-April" ...

It's now mid-April, and the Laowa  webpage says, "Order#s earlier than below mentioned have been shipped. Canon: #17212    Nikon: #16850     Sony E: #16958    Pentax K: #16849."

My order number is later than that, so we'll see ::)

I don't think it will be much longer though :D

Cheers.

Macro_Cosmos

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 340
    • Flickr
Re: StackShot Automated Macro-Rail: First Impressions
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2018, 13:07:45 »
Honestly, I don't need the Stackshot. "The other" aspects are found in the controller, which could be ordered by itself.
The 3x controller is where the money is at  ;)
The rail has some annoying backlash, for repeated stacks, a tolerance interval is required. A way better option would be getting some sort of industrial rail and connect it to the stackshot. http://www.mjkzz.com/extreme-macro There's a nice conversion kit here.


Either way, you can control how fast, or slow, the shots come from the WeMacro.
I was referring to going from say point X to point Y. The wemacro does it very slowly, the stackshot is extremely fast.
It's a tiny aspect, not something I'll get up in arms about.

Are you a vampire? Should I call you Dracula from now on? :D ;D
I do fantasise about being a vampire when I was a kiddy.  ;D
Read a Chinese manga about "good" vampires with superpowers but they don't drink human blood. It was pretty fun stuff.
Only learned about these frequencies when I got older. Apparently kids can hear a larger range of frequencies.
There's this thingy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mosquito

The point is, WeMacro offers far more 'extras,' for a great core purchase price, while StackShot offers no extras at a high (more than double) price.
Mine didn't have a battery box, but I agree, the silly shutter cable should have been free. $35 for a silly cable is ridiculous. It's easy to DIY one, just ask stackshot for the special diode required and they will supply one for free, but it's still an annoyance. Wemacro only offered an extra shutter cable compared to stackshot in my case, but then the stackshot is more than x2 times more expensive. Not impressive.  ::)
Oh Wemacro also comes with a junky plastic small tripod with a really nice and solid clip. I just threw that tripod out and kept the clip, does wonders!

It's now mid-April, and the Laowa  webpage says, "Order#s earlier than below mentioned have been shipped. Canon: #17212    Nikon: #16850     Sony E: #16958    Pentax K: #16849."
Hopefully it will come by the end of this month. That's the thing with Laowa, you have to wait. I learned to wait and add one month to their "quoted" dates. They are also currently busy fulfilling the shipments of their new 9mm f/2.8 lens for mirrorless crop bodies, so expect more delays  :(  The Sony E version of the 25mm isn't even shipped.
Photomicrography gallery: Instagram
Blog: Diatoms Australia
Andor Zyla 5.5 sCMOS | Hamamatsu ORCA-Flash V2 | Nikon Z6 | Olympus Microscope