Author Topic: D850 frame rate vs buffer  (Read 7488 times)

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: D850 frame rate vs buffer
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2017, 23:43:48 »
I heared the best way to shoot basket ball action at the critical movements you want to capture is 1/350 s
Ilkka shots his figure scaters that seem to move faster at 1/1250 to 1/1600s
My understanding is that every sport requires its own critical shutter speed with respect to the movement.

It also depends on final presentation medium and size, and how much blur the viewer will tolerate. Some photographers use slow speeds intentionally to create a sense of movement. I have never been any good in this technique.

When the skater spins really fast you can see a bit of blur even at 1/1600s. But I find 1/1250s to 1/1600s a good compromise for singles. For couples 1/500s tends to include some noticeable movement blur at times but may still be acceptable. I think 1/800s is a pretty good compromise for pairs and couples. I suppose if one were using 600mm to take a close-up of a throw, then very fast shutter speeds would be useful again.

Quote
The pair dance is not so great at f/1.4 or f/2.0 because only one of the faces is sharp and the other is not blurred enough to make is look intentional, so f/2.8 or f/4.0 are required which means higher ISO or flash if possible in the situation....

It’s more a question that the couple spin around each other and block each other from the camera’s view frequently, and to use wide apertures would be very demanding in terms of moving the focus point around. I felt for ice dance, 1/800s, f/2.8 and ISO 1600 worked well with group area AF on the subject facing the camera. I started with 1/1600s, f/4 and ISO 5000 at first. This was ok and allowed me to use less specific AF area mode (auto area) which makes it easier to shoot and concentrate more on composition and timing. But I prefer the results at f/2.8 1/800s and ISO 1600 as long as I was willing to move the group area around for more specific focus. Nicer image quality and background separation but still acceptable depth of field in most cases as long as some manual control on the focus area was exercised. With auto area AF, shooting at f/2.8 would at times result in focus on the back of the head (if the other skater whose face was towards the camera but further from the cameras), and I prefer f/4 when using that mode. Visually f/2.8 looks good to my eye in this situation but it requires more specific instructions on AF by the photographer. I have shot ice dancers even at f/2 in the past but think either 2.8 or 4 is easier to shoot and may be more equal to the two skaters.

At the world championships (in Helsinki) there were quite many long lenses at the far ends of the arena. I noticed that many shooters used a long lens to shoot the skater at the opposite end of the rink and they were using high fps. As the skaters got closer the cameras went quiet. I’m not sure but I suspect they chose to shoot that way because when the subjects are far away and a long lens is used,  there is more time to shoot (when they are close the time window where they are the right size is often short), also subject isolation from background is more effective and finally the rapid fire sound from multiple cameras shooting long bursts would not be so loud to the skater. I personally like the perspective of the skater at physically close distance - it makes the subjects feel more 3D and closer in the images, and lower ISO can be used with shorter lenses.

Flash photography is forbidden at figure skating competitions for safety reasons (the skater could be momentarily blinded by the flash and this could result in injury).

Frank Fremerey

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Re: D850 frame rate vs buffer
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2017, 00:20:18 »
thank you for sharing your insights
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chambeshi

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Re: D850 frame rate vs buffer
« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2017, 06:45:34 »
Great photos of challenging subjects and conditions!

As with wildlife scenes, or rather events, often we chase the gesture of the moment. Invariably it is fleeting. Fast shutter speeds - at least 1/1000 and often above 1/2000 are a given. High fps also makes or breaks the shot.... this is where the D500 delivers. And I will get the grip and extra juice for the D850

Reviewing my recent batch of photos with D850 and 300 f2.8 + TCs of small birds feeding on flowers reveals even small flits of wings and head movements need 1/1000 where shutter speeds in the range of 1/400-1/640 either show up shake or are blurred. Most are taken handheld as a support is not always feasible.

Steve Perry's advice makes sense here - https://backcountrygallery.com/burst-perfect-moment/

It also depends on final presentation medium and size, and how much blur the viewer will tolerate. Some photographers use slow speeds intentionally to create a sense of movement. I have never been any good in this technique.

When the skater spins really fast you can see a bit of blur even at 1/1600s. But I find 1/1250s to 1/1600s a good compromise for singles. For couples 1/500s tends to include some noticeable movement blur at times but may still be acceptable. I think 1/800s is a pretty good compromise for pairs and couples. I suppose if one were using 600mm to take a close-up of a throw, then very fast shutter speeds would be useful again.

It’s more a question that the couple spin around each other and block each other from the camera’s view frequently, and to use wide apertures would be very demanding in terms of moving the focus point around. I felt for ice dance, 1/800s, f/2.8 and ISO 1600 worked well with group area AF on the subject facing the camera. I started with 1/1600s, f/4 and ISO 5000 at first. This was ok and allowed me to use less specific AF area mode (auto area) which makes it easier to shoot and concentrate more on composition and timing. But I prefer the results at f/2.8 1/800s and ISO 1600 as long as I was willing to move the group area around for more specific focus. Nicer image quality and background separation but still acceptable depth of field in most cases as long as some manual control on the focus area was exercised. With auto area AF, shooting at f/2.8 would at times result in focus on the back of the head (if the other skater whose face was towards the camera but further from the cameras), and I prefer f/4 when using that mode. Visually f/2.8 looks good to my eye in this situation but it requires more specific instructions on AF by the photographer. I have shot ice dancers even at f/2 in the past but think either 2.8 or 4 is easier to shoot and may be more equal to the two skaters.

At the world championships (in Helsinki) there were quite many long lenses at the far ends of the arena. I noticed that many shooters used a long lens to shoot the skater at the opposite end of the rink and they were using high fps. As the skaters got closer the cameras went quiet. I’m not sure but I suspect they chose to shoot that way because when the subjects are far away and a long lens is used,  there is more time to shoot (when they are close the time window where they are the right size is often short), also subject isolation from background is more effective and finally the rapid fire sound from multiple cameras shooting long bursts would not be so loud to the skater. I personally like the perspective of the skater at physically close distance - it makes the subjects feel more 3D and closer in the images, and lower ISO can be used with shorter lenses.

Flash photography is forbidden at figure skating competitions for safety reasons (the skater could be momentarily blinded by the flash and this could result in injury).

David H. Hartman

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Re: D850 frame rate vs buffer
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2017, 07:22:31 »
 If one only uses their Nikon D8XX camera on a super solid tripod or with very high shutter speeds then many photographic opportunities will have to be passed over. The techniques one should use with an F3 or D2H are the same as needed for D8XX. What matters far more than the capture media is the degree of magnification: macro, telephoto and final presentation.

D800, 1/160th at f/2.8 and ISO 6400 with a 200mm focal length. If I  can do it so can you...

D800_DSC5607_CNX2_1840 by Dave Hartman, on Flickr
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David H. Hartman

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Re: D850 frame rate vs buffer
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2017, 07:59:20 »
Back to the buffer:

On my lowly D800 I can get three more estimated frames in a the buffer by turning of things like vignette control, auto distortion control and maybe a few others. The memory used by the buffer is clearly shared with these features. If shooting NEF turn them off. If shooting JPG only keep them on. If shooting both NEF and JPG and you need a deeper buffer choose the one most needed.

If the buffer in the D850 isn't deep enough then maybe a D5 or D500 is in order.

Dave, the jealous
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