Is the Neo-Noct a sharp lens? Discussing the AF-S NIKKOR 58mm f/1.4

[Frank Fremerey]

Is the Neo-Noct a sharp lens?

Discussion with Paco on the AF-S NIKKOR 58mm f/1.4G started here: http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,6481.msg104660.html#msg104660

referenced was attachment one, the edited full size downscaled version
second attachment here is the unedited result from the camera (100%)
third file here (too large) http://fotokontext.de/temp/QRS_2409_ooc_100percent_sharpening.jpg is the same picture, sharpened with 1.3 radius and 500 strength, which does not seem to be too much in this case (100%)

I would describe the results of the lens at f/1.4 as:

"detailed & dreamy & of special character like the ones of the 1.2/50 or 1.4/35, also strong characters but different ones."

, the term "sharp" does not come to mind.

Questions:

Is this the way the lens should be?
Do we see sample variation here / in general?
Do I need to calibrate the lens for my D500/D850 pair?

[richardHaw]

to me, the 58/1.4G isn't designed to be chart-topping (sharp) but it has many subtleties of its own that harks back to the old Nikkor days where lenses were designed to render "artistically". again, this is just me. 

[Erik Lund]

Here is a thread with a lot of images with the 58mm 1.4 AFS
http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,7.0.html
I think it is sharp enough,,,

[David H. Hartman]

Focus variation may be more important than sample variation.

Dave

[paul_k]

to me, the 58/1.4G isn't designed to be chart-topping (sharp) but it has many subtleties of its own that harks back to the old Nikkor days where lenses were designed to render "artistically". again, this is just me. 

Agree with the above remark, if 'absolute' sharpness is what you're after, the 1.4/58 AFS may well be the worst choice, especially considering its price
Have no personal experience with them (happy with my 1.4/58mm) but in many test (FWIW) eg Zeiss and/or Sigma 50mm lenses are supposedly much 'better' in that respect, there are even claims even the 'humble' 1.4/50mm AFS Nikkor is.

Love my 58mm for its 'unsharpness', that said, have plenty of images where even when used wide open the result is plenty sharp for me
(although I must admit I most of the time 'mess up' the sharpness with my sloppy 'hand held' shooting technique)

[David H. Hartman]

When shooting at large apertures at relatively close distance, say 1.5m DoF is very thin such that a small error can rob the image of sharpness. Slight body movement can blow the focus. I found I could increase in focus shots with my 50/1.2 AIS by leaning on a sold object. My focus technique was better than my ability to stand still.

Dave

[Akira]

58/1.4G is a fast standard lens without CRC and of a very conventional rack focus type, which suggests that its character changes rather dramatically according to the focusing distance.  I think it is designed, just like the old venerable Noct (and possibly Ais 50/1.2, too), to be sharp and coma-free at distance and reasonably sharp but not bitingly so at the portrait distances.

[tommiejeep]

Frank, there are many better folk here but I use the Df , 58 1.4G as my standard walkabout lens and particularly from afternoon till late evening.   It is not the sharpest lens on the block but I normally shoot it at f1.8-f2 so plenty sharp for people.  I thought something was wrong with my lens until the guy that runs NPS for West India came to see me.  He saw the Df, 58 on my desk and asked if he could try it (he had never used either).  He took shot a of me on the other side of the big Desk which was too sharp for this old guy (at f1.4), that was a wake up call.  Over the years of shooting fast action my techniques had really become sloppy.   Before the 58 1.4 I used the 60 2.8G as my standard lens (now that is sharp) .  I've sold many lenses recently but the 58 1.4 is a keeper.

I really do not want super sharp portraits.  My 85 1.4D is not super sharp at f1.4 but still love it.  Keep working with it and learn when you want to use it.

All the best and I am certainly tempted by the D850 
Tom

[Frank Fremerey]

Tom: I will shoot and post more with the D850 and the Neo Noct. I will also check calibration with live view and calibration. You did see the RAW files???

[golunvolo]

I tend to use this lens more in the 1.8 to 2.8 range. I think there is a significant jump in sharpness from 1.4 to 1.8 but I´m just getting use to the particularities of the lens and playing with it.
   Some different uses in which I think the full open both works and was called for. All with the d750 in fx mode

   1, that little boy was the perfect subject
    2, iso 3200 + 1.85 in post @ 1.4 and I like it a lot
   3 Portrait in very dim light from the sides and back


   In every case sharpness compared with the rest of the frame makes it look even sharper than it is.

[Eddie Draaisma]

58/1.4G is a fast standard lens without CRC and of a very conventional rack focus type, which suggests that its character changes rather dramatically according to the focusing distance.  I think it is designed, just like the old venerable Noct (and possibly Ais 50/1.2, too), to be sharp and coma-free at distance and reasonably sharp but not bitingly so at the portrait distances.

This.

Frank, by all means try to fine-tune the 58/1.4 on the D850; mine needs +18 on my D850.

[Frank Fremerey]

This. Frank, by all means try to fine-tune the 58/1.4 on the D850; mine needs +18 on my D850.

Thank you, will do. I got disappointing results even at f/5.6. I had it at the service with the D600 and it worked from the start with the D500, so I WILL check calibration with the 850. At the horses it worked well at a distance...

[Eddie Draaisma]

Thank you, will do. I got disappointing results even at f/5.6. I had it at the service with the D600 and it worked from the start with the D500, so I WILL check calibration with the 850. At the horses it worked well at a distance...

Went out to test calibration (done at short distance in house) at landscape distances, the +18 is then to much. Not easy to get this exactly right. Grr, I planned to take pictures with the D850...

[David H. Hartman]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the purpose of this lens was to reduce coma at wide apertures, f/1.4 to f/2.0 and better control spherical aberration. It's primary purpose I would think is night photography not that it can't be used at other times. I would guess the sweet spot for this lens would be between f/4.0 and f/5.6. I can't afford one; I bought an AF-S 50/1.8G.

Dave

[Frank Fremerey]

Went out to test calibration (done at short distance in house) at landscape distances, the +18 is then to much. Not easy to get this exactly right. Grr, I planned to take pictures with the D850...

I just came back from shooting an interesting relatively new phenomenon in German Culture. Watch out for my entry in the daily blog tonight.  I had the choice of D500 with 1.8/2OG or D850 with Neonoct or D850 with 1.4/35 Ai-S. I went for the last combo because I do not have to calibrate a MF lens for AF and I wanted to further test MF capability of the new camera. MF is better than it is with the D600 but worse than it is with the D500.