Author Topic: Sadly Leaving Nikon!  (Read 14672 times)

Jack Dahlgren

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #60 on: March 23, 2017, 14:25:22 »
When I was small, a common depiction of a photographer was someone standing behind a tripod with a dark cloth over their head. And at times I have been that person, but as young as I may be, that image seems hopelessly archaic. I should fish that stuff from my closet and teach my son while I have the chance.


bjornthun

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #62 on: March 23, 2017, 18:13:57 »
With modern cameras from Sony, Nikon etc. we get a lot of quality already, there's a lot of medium-format-ness in the cameras we already own. 35mm digital is way ahead of 35mm film. Going for Fuji or Hasselblad gives just a bit more of that.

I find the crop factors applied to "medium format" just hillarious. What is being cropped? Why should the 35mm format be cannonical and assigned the role of unity?

I'm fine with calling 33x44mm medium format. We need to liberate ourselves from film conventions, now that we have gone digital. I suppose there's a very scarce selection of MF film now?

Need more fuel, JA? Just my little ramblings for today. ;)

CS

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #63 on: March 23, 2017, 18:41:06 »


I find the crop factors applied to "medium format" just hillarious. What is being cropped? Why should the 35mm format be cannonical and assigned the role of unity?

It serves as a reference point for marketing purposes in this era of various format sizes.
Carl

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #64 on: March 23, 2017, 18:58:52 »
Well, there were many formats in film as well, and medium format included 6x4,5, 6x6, 6x7, 6x9 and 6x17cm ...

They were all significantly different from 35mm. With this new format one has to ask what's the point, it's like moving to Sahara and saying we need to move away from this old idea of living near fertile land or where there are other people living. The manufacturers just want to sell you a new line of lenses before you realize there is not much benefit for the user as they have to buy all new infrastructure / lenses. Personally I enjoy having lenses available.

David H. Hartman

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #65 on: March 23, 2017, 19:16:16 »
I find the crop factors applied to "medium format" just hillarious. What is being cropped? Why should the 35mm format be cannonical and assigned the role of unity?

...because a lot of photographers never shot anything but 35mm (24x36mm) format in the days of film? Rather than understanding what a 75mm lens does on 4x5" or a 150mm lens does on 6x6 they must translate everything back into their mother tongue.

Dave
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bjornthun

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #66 on: March 23, 2017, 23:26:42 »
More fuel for the fire  :)

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/provocative-dpreview-article-reccomends-buying-ff-instead-fuji-gfx/

https://www.dpreview.com/opinion/2341704755/thinking-about-buying-medium-format-read-this-first

The fact that Dpreview is negative to the GFX, makes me think that the camera may very well be a great camera. Such a camera is about more things than applying the flawed "format equivalence theory". More people will have access to a sensor bigger than glorious* "full frame", which may have ruffled some feathers on the 'net. The "full frame" isn't the fullest frame anymore. :)

Personally I'll keep using Sony 35mm format and dream about Hasselblad. :D

*glorious to be understood in the Monthy Python way. ;)

Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #67 on: March 23, 2017, 23:59:08 »
I have kept all my large-format gear, up to a  massive 8x10" system, but won't dream of them today. Bigger isn't always better and with a larger format, other considerations come into play that users of smaller formats never need to concern themselves about.

Basically the best approach is enjoying whatever system you deal with now and use it to the maximum advantage.

Akira

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #68 on: March 24, 2017, 00:10:10 »
To me, 33x44mm format is too small to "step up" from the 24x36 format, simply because the difference between 33x44 and 24x36 is much smaller than that between FX and DX.  When the 4:3 format is trimmed to 3:2, the difference is even smaller.

I also consider Sony BSI 42MP sensor as game changer.

I remember Bjørn's review of D1.  Its "lowly" 2.7MP sensor (see the decimal point?) already surpassed the resolution of Fuji Velvia 50.
"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

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Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #69 on: March 24, 2017, 00:12:25 »
Full frame isn't a format, the term refers to camera with sensor that uses the image circle projected by the lens fully, of the size of sensor which is the largest that the lens covers.

The correct term when referring to 24x36mm sensors is "35mm full frame". Full frame in itself doesn't specify a format size. Micro Four Thirds camera is full frame with MFT lenses. There is also 645 full frame, available for $48000 from Phase One. It is best to be specific when using this terminology.

Fuji GFX 50s is full frame with its native lenses. Pentax 645Z with also this size of sensor is, however, not full frame with most lenses for the Pentax 645 system.

One reason why full frame matters is the availability of high quality wide angle lenses. In many cases when the system of lenses is designed for a larger size, and then a smaller "crop" sensor camera is introduced, wide angle options are limited.

bjornthun

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #70 on: March 24, 2017, 00:25:11 »
Full frame isn't a format, the term refers to camera with sensor that uses the image circle projected by the lens fully, of the size of sensor which is the largest that the lens covers.

The correct term when referring to 24x36mm sensors is "35mm full frame". Full frame in itself doesn't specify a format size. Micro Four Thirds camera is full frame with MFT lenses. There is also 645 full frame, available for $48000 from Phase One. It is best to be specific when using this terminology.

Fuji GFX 50s is full frame with its native lenses. Pentax 645Z with also this size of sensor is, however, not full frame with most lenses for the Pentax 645 system.

One reason why full frame matters is the availability of high quality wide angle lenses. In many cases when the system of lenses is designed for a larger size, and then a smaller "crop" sensor camera is introduced, wide angle options are limited.
This would be an excellent usage for the term full frame, but unfortunately most places 24x36 mm sensor format is taken as the meaning of "full frame". :(

bjornthun

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #71 on: March 24, 2017, 03:28:47 »
To me, 33x44mm format is too small to "step up" from the 24x36 format, simply because the difference between 33x44 and 24x36 is much smaller than that between FX and DX.  When the 4:3 format is trimmed to 3:2, the difference is even smaller.

I also consider Sony BSI 42MP sensor as game changer.

I remember Bjørn's review of D1.  Its "lowly" 2.7MP sensor (see the decimal point?) already surpassed the resolution of Fuji Velvia 50.
We can look at it another way: If 24x36 is trimmed to 24x32 yielding a 4:3 aspect ratio, the difference between the two formats become 1.89. I think that the ultimate choice here will be a personal one based on taste. The 4:3 aspect ratio is closer to many classical MF and LF formats than the 3:2 of 35mm format and APS-C/DX sensors.

I agree also that the Sony 42mp BSI sensor is a game changer, but for many more reasons than just competing favourably with the 50mp sensor in the Fujifilm GF50s camera on image quality. It helps provide speed and versatility to the Sony A7RII and the Sony A99II, that you won't associate with a slower paced MF camera.

I think both 35mm and mini MF 33x44 will find their friends.

Jack Dahlgren

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #72 on: March 24, 2017, 05:13:41 »
I don't want to be the guy who says "10 Megapixels are enough", but when I hear about 50mp being a game changer I wonder what game they would change. I think having my camera be able to see in the dark is more important to me than extra resolution. I think it is time for the game to change away from megapixels.

Certainly not for everyone. Most will continue in their own personal trajectories. This is the same thing we saw when we look back at the film to digital transition - the most recent format extinction event. I think we are due for a change and it isn't a change to the larger side. Many photographers on this list won't participate or drive the change but I am certain it will happen. 

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #73 on: March 24, 2017, 09:52:34 »
Having a lot of pixels benefits base ISO dynamic range, and with BSI it seems high ISO can also be excellent.

In my opinion, we are seeing a healthy diversification of camera types and sensor sizes, not extinction.

The mobile phone of course is everywhere now. For a dedicated camera to do well, it has to offer clear advantages over the mobile phone. This is one reason the high end market is seeing now more options, I think, to allow photographers to find a camera that suits their working style and subjects, and offers something distinctive.

bjornthun

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #74 on: March 24, 2017, 12:52:25 »
I don't want to be the guy who says "10 Megapixels are enough", but when I hear about 50mp being a game changer I wonder what game they would change. I think having my camera be able to see in the dark is more important to me than extra resolution. I think it is time for the game to change away from megapixels.

Certainly not for everyone. Most will continue in their own personal trajectories. This is the same thing we saw when we look back at the film to digital transition - the most recent format extinction event. I think we are due for a change and it isn't a change to the larger side. Many photographers on this list won't participate or drive the change but I am certain it will happen.
Cameras with fewer megapixels that "see in the dark" already exist, like the 16mp Nikon Df, 20mp Nikon D5 or the 12mp Sony A7s and A7s II. There are cameras with everything from 12mp to 50mp, so there is somethingvfor everyone.

I use the 24mp Sony A7II, and I'm happy with that.