Author Topic: Sadly Leaving Nikon!  (Read 14869 times)

stenrasmussen

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2017, 13:26:22 »
The Nikon D800 made the limitations of the OVF very clear in my case, and the liveview was poor. That camera turned out to be my last DSLR. The D700 was nice and 12mp less taxing, but back then Nikon was still Nikon.

I use AF as well as MF, but prefer both to be available and useable, in case the autofocus isn't able to do its job properly.

Nikon really goofed with the D800.

Erik Lund

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2017, 13:45:18 »
I feel very happy that I skipped D800 and waited for the D810  ;D
Erik Lund

Mike G

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2017, 14:30:23 »
Each to his own, Mike. That is the beauty of an agnostic community. What I do is no obligation for anyone else, or vice versa.

Very true Bjorn, but I see these arguments against EVFs as counter productive and wanted put the other side of the argument!

I have seen many reviews and comments from others of in particular in my case to Fuji, not once have I seen a complaint regarding " blackouts", lagging VFs! IMHO mirrorless is the way things will inevitably go, so I'm very sad to leave Nikon(not cheap by the way) if only they had come up with a mirrorless D810, I might well be enjoying my munch lamented Nikkor 300mm f4 PF lens, but probably the weight would still have been a problem for me. The lack of eye relief would also be problematic.

To paraphrase you vive le difference.

bjornthun

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2017, 14:32:54 »
Very true Bjorn, but I see these arguments against EVFs as counter productive and wanted put the other side of the argument!

I have seen many reviews and comments from others of in particular in my case to Fuji, not once have I seen a complaint regarding " blackouts", lagging VFs! IMHO mirrorless is the way things will inevitably go, so I'm very sad to leave Nikon(not cheap by the way) if only they had come up with a mirrorless D810, I might well be enjoying my munch lamented Nikkor 300mm f4 PF lens, but probably the weight would still have been a problem for me. The lack of eye relief would also be problematic.

To paraphrase you vive le difference.
I agree a 100%, Mike.

armando_m

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2017, 14:52:36 »
....
- Focus peaking with MF lenses
- The ability to zoom in with MF lenses for critical focus
- Live histogram
- The option to use a B&W viewfinder when shooting B&W images
- Image review thru the viewfinder on sunny days
...
And this why I still lust over a mirrorless camera, something better than my V1 , not to difficult to do better right ?

I did experiment with a sony nex5n , and hated the thing, this has kept me away from trying any other sony

I'm still eyeing the fujis ...
Armando Morales
D800, Nikon 1 V1, Fuji X-T3

Erik Lund

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2017, 14:56:58 »
,,,I have seen many reviews and comments from others of in particular in my case to Fuji, not once have I seen a complaint regarding " blackouts", lagging VFs!,,,,,

Wow Turning the blind eye  :o
Erik Lund

Akira

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2017, 15:07:47 »
Fuji and Olympus have successfully reduced the total lag ("EVF display lag" plus "shutter response" after the release button is pushed).  I personally felt that the E-M5 MkII that I used for some time was very responsive.  Its total lag was easily comparable to the higher-end Nikon DSLRs whose viewfinder lag is nil.  Fuji X-T1/2 and Oly E-M1 should be even more responsive.

That said, the EVF may be very slightly disadvantageous when you want to react predictively.
"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

"Limitation is inspiration." - Akira

bjornthun

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2017, 15:24:24 »
And this why I still lust over a mirrorless camera, something better than my V1 , not to difficult to do better right ?

I did experiment with a sony nex5n , and hated the thing, this has kept me away from trying any other sony

I'm still eyeing the fujis ...
Sony as well as other manufacturers have come a long way since the Nex-5n.

Mike G

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2017, 16:02:03 »
Wow Turning the blind eye  :o

Well Erik, please show me then?

pluton

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2017, 18:51:58 »
 Every 'complaint' about EVFs and OVFs in this thread have validity for the person making them. I find it educational to read the opinions of all the experienced photographers here, pro or con, yes or no, whatever.  As long as our opinions are presented as our own, personal observations there can only be increased knowledge.
Forum old-timers will remember issues like the funkadelic viewfinder of the D800 being talked about in the past.  SLR blackout was a hot subject way back when the 'other choice' was a Leica M. All part of this wonderful world we live in.
Keith B., Santa Monica, CA, USA

Akira

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2017, 23:39:09 »
Keith, I fully agree!
"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

"Limitation is inspiration." - Akira

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2017, 15:30:07 »
The Nikon D800 made the limitations of the OVF very clear in my case, and the liveview was poor. That camera turned out to be my last DSLR. The D700 was nice and 12mp less taxing, but back then Nikon was still Nikon.

I didn't have problems using the D800 for manual focus using the live view, as most of my manual focus work is with tripod and stopped down for large depth of field, but the D810's live view is much better (higher resolution, less noise in lower light, two subsections of the image can be used to adjust tilt and focus in some cases). The D810's OVF is also with better coatings giving a clearer image which more pleasing to work with. The D5 is a further improvement in viewfinder quality in my experience.  I don't routinely use it for manual focusing hand held though, since I use autofocus lenses now for that kind of shooting. For the tripod based shooting typically I shoot with the D810 and aim for extended depth of field (stopping down to f/9-11, using tilt to maximize the near-to-far sharpness, I find the OVF useful for initial adjustment of the tilt and focus, to be refined by LCD). If I wanted to use manual focus with fast primes, I too might feel strained eyes, but when trying the A7R II, I noticed that I wasn't able to focus using the unmagnified EVF even remotely well enough to get usable results with the 135/2 Apo Sonnar. By using the zoomed view focusing was made possible but then I can't monitor the subject's and the image's overall expression at the same time if I have to view a zoomed-in subsection of the image. This kind of approach of hand holding the camera and zooming in for a partial view is not an acceptable way of working for me and I wouldn't be able to concentrate of the image content and timing doing that. I by far prefer to use an OVF to monitor the subject's emotion and clues to changes in it, and let the camera's continuous autofocus do the focusing. Subtle details of facial expression is something I can't see through an EVF, and without the use of zooming in, manual focus would not be possible either, so for me the EVF concept is unfortunately a non-starter. It doesn't give me anything that I could use to work with.  However, I completely understand that my subjects are not everyone's, and people have widely varying preference regarding viewfinders and what kind of camera design works best for them. This is what is great about the situation today: There is something for everyone.

The D800's AF gave me plenty of headaches with fast primes; the D810 was a significant improvement which solved most of the inconsistencies that I had. The D5 AF is phenomenally fast and sensitive in low light and in particular, it allows me to shoot moving subjects at f/1.4 on a routine basis with very few out of focus images. Especially with longer distances the earlier Multi-CAM 3500 series cameras had problems which I do not see with Multi-CAM 20k. However, time will tell how the new module will perform on a high resolution sensor. For me 20-24MP is plenty enough for most of my practical applications, and I've been very happy with the D5's resulting image quality, though not as good as D810 at low ISO.

In 2012 there is a breakthrough in one area (sensor and image quality) but because of production problems due to the 2011 natural disasters I understand that they had difficulty making correctly functioning cameras. This is regrettable but Nikon's products are far too valuable to me to not forgive them for their errors. I can understand that when there are large-scale casualties, evacuations, no working infrastructure, it can be difficult to concentrate on manufacturing cameras with precision requirements. Things have improved greatly since and I'm very happy with Nikon's quality control from the last few years. Also their progress with the D5 autofocus is really amazing.

MFloyd

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #42 on: March 22, 2017, 15:49:23 »
I subscribe Illka's point of view. And much is dependent on the shooter subject and photographer. For me, an EVF doesn't work out; it's like drawing a (electronic) curtain between me and the subject. But I would be in favor for a pilot like HUD display where you have an overlay of electronic information while maintaining an optical view on the subject.
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chambeshi

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #43 on: March 22, 2017, 16:50:32 »

Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: Sadly Leaving Nikon!
« Reply #44 on: March 22, 2017, 17:06:03 »
Even such a claimed authority cannot get basics correct;

"brightness is somewhat proportional to the total amount of light captured, too: bigger formats simply capture more light"


forgetting that this is a circular argument as a larger area means "more" light but as area increases, intensity remains constant as there is a larger area to cover.

Oh well. Simple advice is to keep the salt shaker easily accessible.