Author Topic: Where is Nikon heading?  (Read 18678 times)

Erik Lund

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #285 on: March 09, 2017, 08:19:37 »
..... That said, I noted a surprising large number of people at the Iditarod dog sled race start here in Fairbanks this week that were handling smartphones even at -25 to -30°C. The few times I have tried such use I find it very troublesome as even a pair of thin fleece gloves have to come off to use the camera on the phone.
You can get gloves Sealskinz for instance, that work for the touch screens, phones or cameras,,,
Erik Lund

Řivind Třien

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #286 on: March 09, 2017, 08:38:20 »

Thanks, good to know, although my present preferred cameras do not have this requirement. So they work with capacitative screens too? (The web site did not specify).
Řivind Třien

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #287 on: March 09, 2017, 11:46:19 »
I find it difficult to see the smart phone the best choice for photographing a dog race in extreme cold.  :o But, I understand that if that's what one has, it is the best. A compact camera probably would not work great with gloves on either, to really get good handling one would have to with a larger camera.

David H. Hartman

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #288 on: March 09, 2017, 19:39:22 »
I find it difficult to see the smart phone the best choice for photographing a dog race in extreme cold.  :o But, I understand that if that's what one has, it is the best. A compact camera probably would not work great with gloves on either, to really get good handling one would have to with a larger camera.

+1

Some may buy a new smart phone with a better camera as an excuse but I doubt that many buy a smart phone with the prime objective of getting a camera. It's there and people will use it. It replaces the EK Browny Haweye's of the '50s and Instamatics of the '60s but it does not replace a proper camera if one cares about their photography.

People often buy what's "In" what's "cool" and at a time film SLR(s) were such and again dSLR were in. Those with little commitment will then move to what is most convenient.

Dave Hartman
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armando_m

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #289 on: March 09, 2017, 22:00:39 »
Here is a CIPA table without the noise of the mobile phones
http://www.cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/d-2016_e.pdf

and a capture of the screen in case you do not want to click on the link
the info is for the full 2016 year

Talking about shipments ( I do not know why 2 rows for each concept in the report)
mirrorless ~flat yr-yr
DSLR ~85% yr-yr
Compacts ~56% yr-yr

IMO, it basically predicts the price of the cameras and lenses we use and like are likely to go higher
Armando Morales
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Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #290 on: March 09, 2017, 23:05:51 »
The first row is in units (how many cameras) and the second is their monetary value.

Jack Dahlgren

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #291 on: March 10, 2017, 06:55:08 »
+1

Some may buy a new smart phone with a better camera as an excuse but I doubt that many buy a smart phone with the prime objective of getting a camera. It's there and people will use it. It replaces the EK Browny Haweye's of the '50s and Instamatics of the '60s but it does not replace a proper camera if one cares about their photography.

People often buy what's "In" what's "cool" and at a time film SLR(s) were such and again dSLR were in. Those with little commitment will then move to what is most convenient.

Dave Hartman

For a couple of years the camera on my IPhone was my primary camera.
My current phone I paid extra to ensure I got a good camera included in it.
For a lot of what I do, a phone cam is adequate.
I don't believe I am alone.

MFloyd

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #292 on: March 10, 2017, 10:06:17 »
+1

Some may buy a new smart phone with a better camera as an excuse but I doubt that many buy a smart phone with the prime objective of getting a camera. It's there and people will use it. It replaces the EK Browny Haweye's of the '50s and Instamatics of the '60s but it does not replace a proper camera if one cares about their photography.

People often buy what's "In" what's "cool" and at a time film SLR(s) were such and again dSLR were in. Those with little commitment will then move to what is most convenient.

Dave Hartman

Dave, its time to try one, and confront yourself with reality: the today's smartphone build-in cameras are so much more capable than the Instamatics you are referring to.  Have a look to the dedicated thread to make it up for yourself. 😊

http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,1899.0.html
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tommiejeep

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #293 on: March 10, 2017, 11:13:23 »
MF, I tend to agree with you but..... it is primarily due to Social Media that Smartphones are wiping out P&S and hurting camera sales.   The Smartphones are now multi-functional, phone conversations are actually becoming a thing of the past where I live.  My wife will text someone and wait for an answer rather than just call and speak with them  :( .   Banking and purchasing is being done by Smartphone rather than the Net so if capable of excellent images from something one depends on..... 

The camera manufacturers are responding to connectivity with varying degrees of success.  I can go from camera to phone to a sharing site easily with the Olympus cameras, slightly less easy with Sony and more difficult with Nikon.  When I sell gear these days I advertise on the Buy and Sell area of a local site with an image taken by a camera but then prospective buyers WhatsApp me for real time images from the Samsung Galaxy 7 Edge.  Saves a lot of time and can answer questions immediately.   Smartphones have become a tool.   There are some things that Smartphones just do not photograph well  ;)

Then there are those that just like to take photographs and enjoy having good gear , sometimes just for having well engineered and made pieces.  The world of Apps has made processing images more of a game that can correct many half assed images ( speaking of my son, the teenager, not the link  :) ) and he is a good photographer.

I have funds on hold to see what is coming next from Nikon (and others) .  I certainly do not need another camera ( or lenses for that matter  :( ) .  Maybe some Island hopping in Greece or a trip to Paris  :)
Tom
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David H. Hartman

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #294 on: March 10, 2017, 11:22:48 »
Dave, its time to try one, and confront yourself with reality: the today's smartphone build-in cameras are so much more capable than the Instamatics you are referring to.  Have a look to the dedicated thread to make it up for yourself. 😊

I have one. It's 13MP and it takes so, so photos when it feels like it. It's like all the rest you hold it out like one of the living dead and then tap the screen and there is a fun graphic as it swishes away so you know it took a photo. Capturing a decisive moment was easier with a Brownie Hawkeye or Instamatic 100. I'm sorry but I all but never take photos with my phone.

I also have a Fuji E550 and a Canon A640 of the point & shoot persuasion. I don't know where they are at this moment. I should find them and make sure batteries are not in them. The only cameras I use are a D800 and occasionally a D300s.

Dave who believes a smart phone is "Very interesting but stupid."
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David H. Hartman

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #295 on: March 10, 2017, 11:27:17 »
When the only tool you have is a smart phone everything looks like a nail.™

 :D
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Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #296 on: March 10, 2017, 12:30:01 »
While smartphone cameras today are better than they used to be, there are still issues in their use as a primary camera. If you try to take a precisely timed shot, chances are that it won't work out without multiple tries, leading to posing etc. very fake looking images. Furthermore most smartphone cameras have a moderate wide angle lens and to get wider angle images, stitching is used and the automatic stitching results (which is how people do it in practice with smartphone cameras) are quite gross aesthetically; there is distortion and artifacts. People make selfies with the moderate wide angle, leading to quite bad distortion of the features. I think it's a temporary thing and people will eventually feel disgust when they look at many of these images. Hopefully they will disappear in a server crash somewhere. While the iPhone 7 plus has a slightly longer lens available the thing is that to get a nicely proportioned portrait you need to move the camera some distance away, and this is not what people do with a smartphone, really. This whole culture is warped in narcissism. People post distorted pictures of their faces with a wide angle lens, they post their food, and cat videos that they found, with the assumption that other people would be interested in this stuff. I think this cannot really last for very long and people will grow weary of this whole culture.  When publishing stuff carried some threshold of editorial review, we didn't have to see so much bad content. Of course, some good content was also excluded. I don't like the idea that basically algorithms decide, what content gets highlighted. It would be better if there were people to do the selection. But I guess that train went long ago and there is no going back. Although content that is strictly editorially reviewed does exist, but is it popular enough to succeed? 

The smartphone camera does not make it easy to create good photography. The touch screen is unresponsive, making it difficult to get reliably and precisely timed shots. There are no easy to use exposure controls. The requirement for a flat lens limits focal length and applications. The fact that it is everywhere basically promotes the idea of publishing half-hearted efforts to a far too big audience for the content's true value. A slower process has the advantage that the users have time to think before posting.  Of course I'm not saying that the process should be unnecessarily clumsy, but there are advantages in taking one's time before publishing content, whether images or text.

The question then is: if the smallest and least expensive compact cameras do not have a clear competitive advantage over the smartphone camera, what is the next step up which does in fact produce visibly better results? I thought that would be at the RX100/Nikon DL level. Perhaps Nikon feels that market also saturated with competition.  Then there is the small sensor mirrorless, CX, MFT, and APS-C models.

Is direct connectivity to smartphone the way people want to use a dedicated camera? How large a proportion of users consider this very important? I guess manufacturers will eventually get this to work fluidly, but I fear the bad rap Snapbridge has given Nikon so far ... will it recover after the technology works reliably on most devices?

I guess the instant upload culture has the advantage that people don't get to edit their shots much and it gives a sort of "as is" reflection of events, even though it looks bad and careless most of the time and it's difficult to catch a telling moment. If there are dozens of camera phones witnessing an event, it's possible someone will catch a good moment. It doesn't feel very satisfying.

tommiejeep

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #297 on: March 10, 2017, 13:05:45 »
Ilkka,  there is a paying market for instantly uploaded images, not Smartphone images for teenagers.   Advertising on Social Media is big business and establishments do benefit from 'real time' images.  It does take a reasonable photographer to make the place, event, merchandise attractive.   It is like the old 'word of mouth' about an establishment having a good Sale on, or an Event really being "the place to be" at that moment except word can spread much broader and faster than word of mouth.

Many cameras will allow some in camera editing /cropping .  We are not talking about award winning images just business.  A photographer only has so much time and most do not want to be on call 24/7 so have to pick their clients well and try to keep ahead of the game as far as advance notification and scheduling.  How long it will last, no idea, but more and more newspapers and magazines are have a hard time competing at the moment.  Trust me, my local newspapers pay very little for published images but a shop that does an extra $5000+ in sudden sales or a restaurant/hotel/Club that makes a big profit on the night , is much more likely to be much more generous  ;D .
Tom Hardin, Goa, India

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #298 on: March 10, 2017, 14:08:17 »
Ilkka,  there is a paying market for instantly uploaded images, not Smartphone images for teenagers.

I understand that there is a professional market where speed is important.

I would think at least reviewing the images on a laptop would make sure that the exposure is correct and do a few tweaks to make it look just right before submitting would be helpful. For me it is difficult to judge things on a small screen. But I am used to a much slower workflow both in photography as well as in research.  ;) I guess I should speed up both.  ::)