Author Topic: Where is Nikon heading?  (Read 19949 times)

MFloyd

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #150 on: February 16, 2017, 10:49:40 »
Everything has more or less been said.  On my side ? A binary approach: smartphone (iPhone 6s Plus) and FX cameras (D5, D610); D90 given to my son, Coolpix 7900 given to my daughter, but they almost never use these, preferring to rely on their better smartphones (iPhone x). My little world is may be not a proxy for the bigger one, but I give it some taught.

Personal, I have always aimed for the best (and most expensive - starting with a Nikon F2 AS - and it has never been a disappointment, even when my wallet was much much thinner in the early days. "You have to be rich to buy cheap" they say.  The only exception was during the beginning of the digital era, where I bought some cheaper cameras, because I wanted first to have a toe in the water, and professional DSLR cameras being too expensive for the delivered quality.
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Erik Lund

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #151 on: February 16, 2017, 10:58:30 »
My first digital camera was the Nikon D1 - It's very difficult to put people into fixed behavioural patterns to prove a point,,,
Erik Lund

MFloyd

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #152 on: February 16, 2017, 11:08:43 »
If your statement is a reply to mine, I'm afraid I dont get your point. 🤓
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Erik Lund

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #153 on: February 16, 2017, 11:27:18 »
It wasn't
Erik Lund

Ilkka Nissilš

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #154 on: February 16, 2017, 14:00:12 »
My first digital camera was the Nikon D1 - It's very difficult to put people into fixed behavioural patterns to prove a point,,,

I would guess you used less expensive film cameras some time before that and didn't jump into photography by buying the D1 straight away as your first camera. Of course, I can't know that for sure.

I was not trying to draw a pattern that everyone follows. I was just reporting what people whom I know to have gotten into photography have done in the past 10-15 years. Not one of them went into high end products straight away. Of course, students in some photography schools are exposed to medium format digital in the school studio but most of them  work on their tasks with used, older, less expensive models in the beginning even though it will be their profession. Lots of wedding photography is shot on consumer DX gear. It does the job and is economically sensible. 

There is always the exception but most young people have time but very little if any money, and when they later on approach middle age they have some money but very little (free) time, so unless they are shooting professionally, the first time when many people could buy high end gear is after their kids have left their parents home. Of course there are exceptions but even for most professional photographers they need to be very prudent with the money they spend to make ends meet. I recall reading that the average salary for a professional photographer in my country is a little over 2000 EUR (before taxes etc. are subtracted). 5000Ä camera bodies just don't enter the picture for many.

Erik Lund

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #155 on: February 16, 2017, 14:48:30 »
F4E and F5,,,  ::)
Erik Lund

dibyendumajumdar

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #156 on: February 16, 2017, 15:12:34 »
Recent information about Nikon's share of total camera sales (especially their lower end DSLR's), their drastic reduction of number of Nikon Ambassadors, promised DL line not delivered, lack of (real) mirrorless products, Nikon management asleep or just too tied up in old thinking, etc. makes me wondering.
Waddaya think folks?

I thought on this forum one did not criticize Nikon! Whatever they do is right!

One can only hope that Nikon will find a way out of the current situation. I for one don't want Nikon to have the biggest market share. I would rather Nikon products are the best!

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BjÝrn RÝrslett

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #157 on: February 16, 2017, 15:23:56 »
Quote

.... I would guess you used less expensive film cameras some time before that and didn't jump into photography by buying the D1 straight away as your first camera. Of course, I can't know that for sure
....

F -> F2-_> F3 -> F4S -> F5 -> D1  and so on.

I thought on this forum one did not criticize Nikon! Whatever they do is right!
....

Feel free to criticise Nikon when criticism is due. They are not infallible even they do have a record of making great products. Same applies to any other camera or lens maker.

Jack Dahlgren

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #158 on: February 16, 2017, 16:08:37 »
Cameras have always been following a broad path which satisfies requirements for quality and convenience. It is broad because there are different balancing points for different types of photographers. There is a third dimension to this which is price, and price determines the number of photographers at a given point.

In the past we saw medium format roll cameras take over from sheet film, because they were more convenient and had "good enough" quality.
We saw 35mm become dominant over medium format as film improved and the ability to interchange lenses easily (and get long reach) made it more convenient.
We saw digital dominate over film as the convenience and immediacy trumped initial quality issues.
We saw point and shoots become decimated by the phone cam as convenience can't be beat (even at the cost of lack of quality)
And now I think for the most part that the DSLR is going to go the way of the medium format camera. Large heavy expensive lenses, pentaprisms and flipping mirrors deliver more than enough quality for most, and less than enough convenience.
The future is clear to me that my DF is as archaic as my Rolliflex, speed graphic and D3. That doesn't make it. As, but it does mean that the number of people who are interested enough to keep using them is much smaller than the very broad group of cellcamera users.

It is a broad path as I mentioned before. There are many ways to wander through the woods. And those who are wandering longest are frequently the ones who stay to their well known path instead of jumping to a new one.

The dilemma for Nikon and other makers is how do they pave a new path while not abandoning the one they have so lovingly paved. There are many great photographic companies buried out in the woods with their customers, Kodak and Polaroid being a couple which just couldn't navigate the digital fork in the road.

Nikon (and all other DSLR companies) are in a similar situation now. I think they will make the same decisions as others which have perished before them and live or die on the path which they have so carefully tended for 100 years now. That is a long time for a company.

I expect my current camera is the last DSLR I will buy new. The next camera will be lighter, smaller, more capable and with image quality which is "good enough".

Ilkka Nissilš

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #159 on: February 16, 2017, 17:14:46 »
DSLRs or SLRs are not 100 years old. Nikon made rangefinders and lenses before the SLR became popular. They made mirrorless digital cameras (with non interchangeable lens) before they made DSLRs. It is silly to suggest Nikon is somehow only a DSLR maker or that DSLRs are the old tech. It is not. In my opinion the DSLR is evolutionarily more advanced than rangefinders or mirrorless cameras though both rangefinders and mirrorless cameras have advantages for short focal length lenses. To limit myself to short focal length lenses and a viewfinder which would barely do justice to a 1980s television screen is a wholly unattractive proposition and would likely lead me to stop photographing. Although many seem to dismiss DSLRs and non interchangeable lens compact digital cameras as doomed, EVF MILC camera sales constitute an extremely small piece of the total dedicated camera sales. Every type of camera has its own advantages and should be used for those applications where it is best fit.

bjornthun

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #160 on: February 16, 2017, 17:45:18 »
DSLRs or SLRs are not 100 years old. Nikon made rangefinders and lenses before the SLR became popular. They made mirrorless digital cameras (with non interchangeable lens) before they made DSLRs. It is silly to suggest Nikon is somehow only a DSLR maker or that DSLRs are the old tech. It is not. In my opinion the DSLR is evolutionarily more advanced than rangefinders or mirrorless cameras though both rangefinders and mirrorless cameras have advantages for short focal length lenses. To limit myself to short focal length lenses and a viewfinder which would barely do justice to a 1980s television screen is a wholly unattractive proposition and would likely lead me to stop photographing. Although many seem to dismiss DSLRs and non interchangeable lens compact digital cameras as doomed, EVF MILC camera sales constitute an extremely small piece of the total dedicated camera sales. Every type of camera has its own advantages and should be used for those applications where it is best fit.
Let's look at "extremely small piece of the dedicated camera sales". EVF MILC cameras are about 25% of the interchangeable lens camera market for 2016. Nikon has about a 27% market share of the interchangeable lens camera market in 2016. By extension of your argument, one would be lead to think that Nikon has an "extremely small piece of the dedicated camera sales". No wonder Nikon is doomed, or are they? ;)

A 1980'ies TV screen had about 520,000 pixels, i.e. 0.5 million pixels. The best EVFs today have 3.69 mpix (Fuji GFX) and 4 mpix (Leica SL). Most other are 2.4 mpix. Quite a difference.

John Koerner

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #161 on: February 16, 2017, 17:56:00 »
Every type of camera has its own advantages and should be used for those applications where it is best fit.

I disagree.

Following this logic, a camera company should spend R&D money on every conceivable "level" of camera, possible for the human imagination.  :o Nonsense.

Remember another truism, "A confused mind says, 'No.'"

Having an infinity of levels wastes time, resources, as well as bulk markets.

As such, here should only be 3 (at most, 5) "types" of DSLR.

Beginner, Intermediate, Pro. (Action)

Intermediate, Pro. (Landscape.)

That's it. Cell phones can do the rest.

Likely, mirrorless will ultimately replace all landscape DSLRs.

Not so sure about action.

MILLIREHM

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #162 on: February 16, 2017, 22:34:15 »
Cell Phone can't beat my Coolpix P300. And its purpose cant be fulfilled by SLR
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Ilkka Nissilš

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #163 on: February 16, 2017, 23:00:16 »
John, that is not what I meant. I was referring to different types of camera, such as fixed lens compact, rangefinder, mirrorless ILC with EVF, mirrorless ILC with just LCD, scientific cameras, action cameras, underwater cameras, DSLRs etc. There is no need to get rid of any of these camera types and there is no reason why a single manufacturer needs to make all these camera types. Each manufacturer should probably focus on their areas of strength rather than try to do it all.

MFloyd

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #164 on: February 17, 2017, 00:18:23 »
Cell Phone can't beat my Coolpix P300. And its purpose cant be fulfilled by SLR

You should specify which cell phone.  The recent smartphones (iPhone 6 and 7; Samsung etc) have made enormous progress.  And you can only make pictures if you have the tool with you; and I have always my smartphone.

At least we can talk about; not so long ago, on many forums, you would simply have been nailed on the barn door by only mentioning the word "cell phone".
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