Author Topic: A Quick Look at Ming Theinís New Post-Processing Suite  (Read 10178 times)

charlie

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 586
Re: A Quick Look at Ming Theinís New Post-Processing Suite
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2016, 19:47:40 »
I find that opinions like those that have been expressed in this conversation mean more when there is a body of work to back them up so I can see where they are coming from. I am not familiar with Ming Thein's reviews, blogs, etc, but after a quick look through his site he seems to be a perfectly capable photographer with clean post processing work. I have seen plenty of Michaels work and while he might claim to not know much about post processing I find his photographs to consistently be rich with natural coloring and hold as much detail as anyone could ever want, except for maybe Michael himself as he always seems to be searching for a little bit more detail  ;)

Almass, if you are producing work that can "run rings around" said work I'd be happy to see it, if you have innovative post processing techniques I'd love to have a conversation with you about it with you and see if we couldn't learn new techniques from each other. Until then I'm afraid your opinion of such matters does not carry much weight.

Almass

  • Guest
Re: A Quick Look at Ming Theinís New Post-Processing Suite
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2016, 20:11:43 »
I find that opinions like those that have been expressed in this conversation mean more when there is a body of work to back them up so I can see where they are coming from. I am not familiar with Ming Thein's reviews, blogs, etc, but after a quick look through his site he seems to be a perfectly capable photographer with clean post processing work. I have seen plenty of Michaels work and while he might claim to not know much about post processing I find his photographs to consistently be rich with natural coloring and hold as much detail as anyone could ever want, except for maybe Michael himself as he always seems to be searching for a little bit more detail  ;)

Almass, if you are producing work that can "run rings around" said work I'd be happy to see it, if you have innovative post processing techniques I'd love to have a conversation with you about it with you and see if we couldn't learn new techniques from each other. Until then I'm afraid your opinion of such matters does not carry much weight.

Thank you for your interject.

You said:

1-  "if you are producing work that can "run rings around"
Please reread what I wrote and it says: "Any person from The Philippines all the way up to Brazil can run rings around his processing.....or photography for that matter.
To make it clearer for you, this means that other photographers on the planet produce similar or better work.
I was not referring to myself as I do not even shoot this type of photography.

2- "if you have innovative post processing techniques"
Where exactly did I claim to have innovative processing techniques?
I said that I do a lot of post processing on my pics.
Is it me or you who is misreading my posts?

3-"Until then I'm afraid your opinion of such matters does not carry much weight"
Please read your own statement to yourself.

In conclusion, it would me very much appreciated if you not read what you want to read but read what is written.

Thank you

pluton

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1968
  • You ARE NikonGear
Re: A Quick Look at Ming Theinís New Post-Processing Suite
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2016, 07:37:28 »
Mr. Thein certainly has created a "look" and is extremely consistent about maintaining that look.  In many/most commercial markets, that is a requirement of professionalism.  I am curious about his recommended processing method.  I'm also looking forward to his future endeavors, in which he creates another "look".
Keith B., Santa Monica, CA, USA

charlie

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 586
Re: A Quick Look at Ming Theinís New Post-Processing Suite
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2016, 08:30:44 »
In conclusion, it would me very much appreciated if you not read what you want to read but read what is written.

Perhaps you are right. I suppose I should have just asked this, what do you get out of putting down other peoples process?



I hope you agree with me that to make a judgement on any issue, one need to be either very good on the issue at hand or at least to be somehow knowledgeable about the issue at hand.

I have no qualm about Post Processing as I am a heavy PP user myself but at least I am proud of it and do not shy from it.

I never said that you claimed to have innovative techniques but it seems pretty clear to me that you think highly of your post work and perhaps rightly so, I'd love to see it. And having such strong opinions on the matter I was asking that you share some of your process hoping you could contribute innovative techniques, move the conversation forward, not sideways.




BW

  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 842
  • You ARE NikonGear
    • BÝrge Wahl-Photography
Re: A Quick Look at Ming Theinís New Post-Processing Suite
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2016, 10:31:53 »
I find mr Theins ideas and thoughts more interesting than his workflow or image output. For this reason I have followed his blog for the last three years. I have picked up a thing or two, so his opinion is not without value to me. But IMO there is nothing there worth paying for. And while I do not find it "wrong" to apply general profiles to a picture, one must understand that if one really want to color correct everything, the easiest (and only) way is to use the CC passport (or an equal tool) at every photo session to make a custom profile for the particular lighting, angle of light and lens. Not applying some "general" profile. As mr Thein himself writes in his blogpost of july 30th, 2016,"My choice of presentation for this set was deliberately painterly in nature Ė thereís something about those 18th century oil seascapes that I personally find both fitting and appealing". He makes a creative choice to apply this style, while in his sales add for the workflow states, "Workflow III unifies workflow across Photoshop and Lightroom, works with a single curve in RGB mode only, eliminates the need for color correction and includes my custom profiles for most popular recent cameras (the full list below), compatible with both PS and LR". I find this two statements rather contradicting. If I was living in the polluted and humid air in urban asia, maybe I could find a profile that gave a consistent output. But my reality is that the weather and lighting conditions change constantly and I have to make a creative choice on how to present every image. I say this without claiming that I am a master PP or that I have found "the solution to every mans problem".

Michael Erlewine

  • Close-Up Photographer
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 1438
  • Close-Up with APO
    • Spirit Grooves
Re: A Quick Look at Ming Theinís New Post-Processing Suite
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2016, 11:01:01 »
Ming Thein's camera profiles are not intended to be a universal solution, but rather, as he states, a neutral starting point from which to build what we need for a particular image. Think of it as we think of Sony's S-log3 in video work, a neutral starting point from which to shape an image into what we need. Try them. I have. If you have not even tried them, you don't know what we are talking about here.

I have followed several different photographers who do their best to make a living from the kind of work that Ming Thein and Lloyd Chambers do and I am certain these folks struggle to take care of their family. It seems we like to eat our own children, so rather than cheer someone like Thein on, we do our best to belittle him, while at the same time suffering the same fate (if you are professional) of trying to support yourselves with photography, when the whole world has become photographers via cell phones, etc.

When I was the director of AMG (music and film data and criticism), I worked not only with a staff of about 150 full-time people, but also with over 500 freelance music and film critics and writers, all of which (it seemed) were trying to make a living doing what they loved. They never seemed to have enough money and the work they did was work that only someone who passionately cared for the subject could produce.

So, I may have a different view here, one certainly tempered by years of experience working with hundreds of talented free-lance writers. It gave me a sense of compassion for those who walk the fine line of sustainability. Does no one else not see this?
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com. Founder MacroStop.com, MichaelErlewine.com (articles), https://www.youtube.com/user/merlewine (video tutorials), All-Music Guide, All-Movie Guide, Classic Posters.com, Matrix Software, SpiritGrooves.net, DharmaGrooves.com

BW

  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 842
  • You ARE NikonGear
    • BÝrge Wahl-Photography
Re: A Quick Look at Ming Theinís New Post-Processing Suite
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2016, 11:19:50 »
I totally get the business side of his venture, but when I read the comments on his site it reminds me more of a fan based cult. Im a fan of critical thinking and as a teacher I value the students who present such behavior. Just to show my bias on the topic :)

Michael Erlewine

  • Close-Up Photographer
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 1438
  • Close-Up with APO
    • Spirit Grooves
Re: A Quick Look at Ming Theinís New Post-Processing Suite
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2016, 13:07:38 »
I totally get the business side of his venture, but when I read the comments on his site it reminds me more of a fan based cult. Im a fan of critical thinking and as a teacher I value the students who present such behavior. Just to show my bias on the topic :)

In the comments to his free blog, I notice that Ming Thein is very consistent in answering most of the comments, which is a sign to me of dedication and care. Having asked questions myself and gotten helpful answers, I am very appreciative of his willingness to respond. Most bloggers don't have that degree of concern and many don't offer comments at all.
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com. Founder MacroStop.com, MichaelErlewine.com (articles), https://www.youtube.com/user/merlewine (video tutorials), All-Music Guide, All-Movie Guide, Classic Posters.com, Matrix Software, SpiritGrooves.net, DharmaGrooves.com

elsa hoffmann

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3822
  • Cape Town, South Africa
    • Elsa Hoffmann
Re: A Quick Look at Ming Theinís New Post-Processing Suite
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2016, 19:29:23 »
Certainly we are all different. With different needs and different perspectives. And even that changes constantly.
If we all liked photographer XYZ - we all would in some way adopt his style and and grow in the same direction.
We need to see things differently in order for us to grow and challenge one another.
We need to like and dislike photographers - because we learn from both of them. 
There is no right or wrong. each to his own. Live and let live.
Not everybody can be  King. Some have to sit on the sidewalk and wave as he goes by.
"You donít take a photograph Ė you make itĒ Ė Ansel Adams. Thats why I use photoshop.
www.phototourscapetown.com
www.elsa.co.za. www.intimateimages.co.za

David H. Hartman

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1982
  • I Doctor Photographs... :)
Re: A Quick Look at Ming Theinís New Post-Processing Suite
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2016, 21:46:38 »
Mr. Thein certainly has created a "look" and is extremely consistent about maintaining that look.  In many/most commercial markets, that is a requirement of professionalism.

I see this also. ...collecting my thoughts. Although the content of the photographs are different there is a sameness that comes through: the balance in the composition, the post processing. It's some technical similarity I can't properly express that comes through in each photograph. It's maybe too perfect.

If this was the fifties American music scene Ming Thien would have been a "Beat" not a "Hipster."

Dave

I can't see how it would hurt to learn some of his Photoshop techniques. I enjoyed looking at his photographs. Maybe I don't want to look at too many in one sitting.
Beatniks are out to make it rich
Oh no, must be the season of the witch

bobfriedman

  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 1037
  • Massachusetts, USA
Re: A Quick Look at Ming Theinís New Post-Processing Suite
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2016, 22:13:20 »
i find that non-destructive post processing is very desirable  (photoshop smart objects, etc.. e.g. see David Cross).  Unfortunately, all of Ming's technique is destructive. Very hard to undo or regress a level or two, usually requiring starting over from scratch..

I had this argument with Ming. To wit, he sent me another of his work flow videos that i don't use.

Just my 2cents.
Robert L Friedman, Massachusetts, USA
www.pbase.com/bobfriedman

Michael Erlewine

  • Close-Up Photographer
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 1438
  • Close-Up with APO
    • Spirit Grooves
Re: A Quick Look at Ming Theinís New Post-Processing Suite
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2016, 23:32:30 »
As the original poster, I just wanted to share what I found useful.

I can't believe all the vitriol that poured out here. Ming Thein is an excellent photographer who shares not only his knowledge at no cost, but also I find his workflow valuable in my own work.   
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com. Founder MacroStop.com, MichaelErlewine.com (articles), https://www.youtube.com/user/merlewine (video tutorials), All-Music Guide, All-Movie Guide, Classic Posters.com, Matrix Software, SpiritGrooves.net, DharmaGrooves.com

bobfriedman

  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 1037
  • Massachusetts, USA
Re: A Quick Look at Ming Theinís New Post-Processing Suite
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2016, 23:35:56 »
As the original poster, I just wanted to share what I found useful.

I can't believe all the vitriol that poured out here. Ming Thein is an excellent photographer who shares not only his knowledge at no cost, but also I find his workflow valuable in my own work.

he charged me for his workflow videos.
Robert L Friedman, Massachusetts, USA
www.pbase.com/bobfriedman

Michael Erlewine

  • Close-Up Photographer
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 1438
  • Close-Up with APO
    • Spirit Grooves
Re: A Quick Look at Ming Theinís New Post-Processing Suite
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2016, 23:40:34 »
he charged me for his workflow videos.

He charges everyone for his workflow videos. Nothing wrong with that. Thom Hogan charges for his camera manuals, etc.  I never suggested otherwise. But MIng Thein's blogs contain invaluable information on all kinds of photographic topics that I find useful.
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com. Founder MacroStop.com, MichaelErlewine.com (articles), https://www.youtube.com/user/merlewine (video tutorials), All-Music Guide, All-Movie Guide, Classic Posters.com, Matrix Software, SpiritGrooves.net, DharmaGrooves.com

bobfriedman

  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 1037
  • Massachusetts, USA
Re: A Quick Look at Ming Theinís New Post-Processing Suite
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2016, 23:47:06 »
fine... i have a right to be disappointed... even though you Michael were not.
Robert L Friedman, Massachusetts, USA
www.pbase.com/bobfriedman