NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: MikeWithTheBike on March 10, 2019, 11:05:13
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Hi guys!
The post on obsolete cameras inspired me to finally join and ask a question... It it time for me to update my camera?
I have a D90 and a D300 (bought used... a long while ago!) along with my still "new to me" Fuji XE1 with a pancake that I travel with (also bought used... for the price of the lens in 2014) . I was looking at updating my Fuji, since I've been enjoying the small size, but the refurb pricing on the D750 and used prices on the D810/D500/D7200 have me thinking... Maybe one more DSLR before they go away forever? I am obviously *not* a pro, and will probably never be at the level of posting my pics on here, but I was pushing the low light capability of my Nikon's... 10 yrs ago? Things are obviously better now...
I *think* I'd need one more lens to make a D750/D810 useful, and probably nothing for a DX. Unless someone has better advice, I *would* like to try a D750 refurb... I currently have:
Tokina 11-16
Tamron 17-50
Nikon 70-200 (original VR version)
I assume those are all DX only? I know the 11-16 will fill an FX frame at 16, but probably not the way to go? And the original 70-200 is to soft in the corners? Or good enough to use?
For primes, I have:
Voigtlander 40
Nikon 50 1.8 G
Nikon 85 1.8 D
Nikon 135 2
Nikon 300 2.8 AFS (Non-VR)
All good enough for a D750? Anything too long in the tooth? How's the focus with MF lenses?
So, with all that said, if I get a wide prime/short zoom and teleconverter (like the v3 of the 2x?), would I be all set with a D750?
Thanks for any insight and updating my outdated info!
Michael
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The D750 is a big step forward from D300 in low light. It should make some of those primes shine. I’d hold off on buying any new lenses until you figure out how the ones you have work. I think you have plenty of lenses.
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There is no shortage of capable lenses on the list ... The 70-200 is FX and the soft corner is only an issue for special conditions (infinity focus at the long end). Most users hardly ever notice.
The 810 is currently to be had quite cheap and is a marked step up over the 800. Never used the 750 other than for quick testing and its ergonomics didn't suit my hands. This is of course something each user has to decide on their own.
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Other than
Tokina 11-16
Tamron 17-50
The rest are all good. Get the camera and try them out.
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The D750 is a good full frame camera but the build quality is not as good as the D500 or the D8xx or even the D600. As you have some DX lenses on the short end, the D500 could be a great idea. compared to the D750:
better build quality
much better white balance
faster and more reliable AF
great camera sound, very well damped
10 fps
ISO up to 20.000 very good
the D750 files have more editing leverage and feel more "analog", film like. The D500 character is superclean and I love its charm.
I love my D500 better than my D850!
PS DX lenses can be used on a D500 without limits
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Amazing guys! Thanks!
I'm glad to hear my old 70-200 isn't as bad in the corners as I'd heard! Anyone use it on a modern sensor with a TC? This site's original incarnation was one of the only places I found useful info like that...
Big unanswered question - how's the manual focus with any of these?
I'm surprised to hear so many voices directing away from the 750. Frank gave a nice summary of D500 advantages - what about the 810? If I prefer the smaller size of the 750 (but that's not a *big* deal), other pro's/con's for my setup? Based on zero personal experience, just internet gossip, 750 has slightly better auto focus, 810 has slightly more detailed images/better DR? 750 has wifi (does it actually work well?) and better memory bank (something people tell me I should use, but probably never will...). The 810 has better flash sync (something I actually do care about!) along with a quieter shutter (again, I like that...).
As for the D500, I had almost discounted it (I never needed the speed of my D300...), but the white balance/better AF/quieter operation are appealing...
From what I've seen, while I need better low light capabilities than my D90/D300, coming from *that* I probably won't notice much of a difference between these three?
Am I giving up much by getting something now instead of waiting for the 850 to drop in price once these new Z's become more ubiquitous?
Thanks again! You guys are great - glad I joined!
Michael
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Amazing guys! Thanks!
I'm glad to hear my old 70-200 isn't as bad in the corners as I'd heard! Anyone use it on a modern sensor with a TC? This site's original incarnation was one of the only places I found useful info like that...
Big unanswered question - how's the manual focus with any of these?
Michael
Teleconverters are generally a compromise. You get more magnification it at the expense of some image quality.
As for manual lens question. In my experience the best cameras for manual focus lenses are the new Z cameras or the dF.
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The D810 or D500 is pretty good for manual focusing as well. However, the Df with a split prism screen is very hard to beat, even for the Z cameras. Low light in combination with wide-angle lenses is a challenge for the EVF.
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A used Df could be an answer 8) For those who used the E2 matte screen on film cameras, the original screen of the Df is quite "good enough" for manual focusing even without looking at the "green dot" ;)
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The D810 is a wonderful camera, greatest incarnation of Generation IV. The D5, D500, D850 are a big leap forward in a lot of areas, esp WB and AF. The D810 is IMO worse for manual focussing than the D500, unless you buy and install a replacement screen like the F6J from focussingscreen.com. We have discussed it earlier, that the D500 Viewfinder is better than many others featuring the same focussing screen.
And yes, a Z6 could be a great solution for you too but the price performance and ergonomics speak for a D500 or D810. The plasticky D750 with the ugly actuation sound was not for me.
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I´m going to have to give a big yes to the d750. It has been my main camera until the z6 came along and I still plan on using it. AF is very good, general speed I have used and it is enough even for live shows. ISO capabilities and post processing better than the d500 -although it is a beast for action- Manual focus...I´m so bad at it that can´t really comment. Green dot and specially live view has come in handy when needed. 24 mpx is a sweet spot for me as well. Refurbished or 2nd hand prices are excellent now.
d500 if speed is a priority
d810 if resolution
Can´t really go wrong.
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Hi, Mike, welcome to NG!
Another vote for D750 which I had been happily using for around two years along with AF-S50/1.8G. The NEF yeided from it is very pliable and easy to work on in the post process.
I also think that 24MP is a sweet spot for the digital image. And I feel that D750 is the first nikon DSLR whose AF accuracy is well balanced with the pixel density of the sensor. The tilting screen is an added bonus.
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Thanks guys!
I guess if there was an easy answer, Nikon wouldn't make so many models...
The price on those focusing screens gave me a small heart attack until I googled Taiwan dollars... Doesn't see so bad now! Do you ship them the camera? Or install the screen yourself?
I think the Df gives up a little too much for manual focus, and the new Z's are a little too pricy for me. Maybe I'll see if I can handle a D500/D750/D810... There seem to be solid votes for all three, and all for reasons I can appreciate!
Frank - you seem to be the biggest proponent of the 500. How much of a difference is there for WB/focus? I thought the 750/810 were already considered decent - is this something that I'm going to fight every fifth shot, or is this something that matters 1% of the time - worth it if you're being paid to shoot, maybe not if I just shoot for fun? I know "is it worth it" is tough to answer, so just trying to get an idea of how much convenience I'm giving up!
For TC's, I'm specifically thinking of using it with the 300 2.8. Especially if I go to FF, I'd like to keep something longer than 300. Thoughts?
Thanks again everyone!
Michael
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first: yes, all three are good choices.
second: 5the generationAF performance is out of this world compared to 4th generation. My 1.4/24 was glacial on the D600 and only slightly faster on the D750. But: I could do AF tracking at 10 fps with it on the D500. Different league!
IQ wise the D810 and D750 are similar with the D750 a tad more forgiving in post, the D500 has the steepest learning curve, ppwise
If you shoot in good light, WB is no problem for all three, when it comes to mixed light the 5th gen Exspeed is the first Nikon chip that does not cast orange or green sauce over the picture that is very difficult to get rid of.
third: you install the screens yourself. The D500 screen works great for me, no replacement necessary
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PS: try the cameras before you buy. For me the tactile and acoustic encounter is decisive
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I use the Df but I do use it less now since I've got the Z6 recently.
What you have to decide first, is the format you want. you have already 3 DX bodies.
It's time now to go for a FX format, don't you think ? So, you can enjoy the genuine focal length of your prime lenses.
The Df is full frame/FX. In addition, size wise, is closer from you Fuji body you want to replace. AF is perfect (at least for my use) for moving subjects. I never had difficulties to focus with my manual lenses, thanks the clear viewfinder. And you can mount old Non AI/auto Nikkors which are now very cheap.
Tele converter : I was happy with the TC14 (with AFS 300mm f/4, now sold) as I never noticed much degradation. I tried the TC17, but I re-sold it quickly... ??? :)
I am using now a modified TC16 with my 500mm AIP which gives AF facility to any manual focus lens.
Good luck in your choice ! ;)
Francis.
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Thanks again guys!
PS: try the cameras before you buy. For me the tactile and acoustic encounter is decisive
I agree! I feel like wanting full frame just to have full frame is a little silly... But I want my 135 to be 135! I want my 85 to be 85! I don't really care about my 40... But you know what I mean!
Having had a chance too look around at used prices a little more, I think the Df and D500 are off the table for now. I'd considered just getting a D700 and waiting... if I can find one cheap enough, I may still do that... But they seem to be a big enough percentage of the price of a D750 that I think I've given up on that idea!
For now, I've settled on finding a good price on a used 810 and, eventually, adding a little XT30 or something for travel. If I have a little travel mirrorless (maybe even a fixed?), I'd probably say the better build quality and flash sync would put the 810 > 750 for me.
Thanks again for all the advice! If I find a great price on a Df/D500/D750, I may change my mind yet... Feel free to change my mind with any more advice!
Michael
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Well that did not post correctly...
I agree with what I ended up quoting, too, but I meant to highlight this!
What you have to decide first, is the format you want. you have already 3 DX bodies.
It's time now to go for a FX format, don't you think ? So, you can enjoy the genuine focal length of your prime lenses.
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I agree! I feel like wanting full frame just to have full frame is a little silly... But I want my 135 to be 135! I want my 85 to be 85! I don't really care about my 40... But you know what I mean!
For now, I've settled on finding a good price on a used 810 ..., I'd probably say the better build quality and flash sync would put the 810 > 750 for me.
Michael
You cannot go wrong with a D810, wonderful camera for the current price, much better price performance IMO than the D750...
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That’s the case also for me :D
I am currently switching from DX To FX most probably for the old als lenses I wand to use 20,28,55,105 and the wonderfull bokeh you can achieve using FX
For sure I will lose the reach for my 150-600 but you can’t have everything!
So I go for D750 from 7200 not a dig change except from the format
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That’s the case also for me :D
I am currently switching from DX To FX most probably for the old als lenses I wand to use 20,28,55,105 and the wonderfull bokeh you can achieve using FX
For sure I will lose the reach for my 150-600 but you can’t have everything!
So I go for D750 from 7200 not a dig change except from the format
The bokeh is a lens property, it does not change with the crop. Crop is just you take the middle part of the sensor.
Bokeh is a lens quality: how a lens renders the unsharp parts of a picture...
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The bokeh is a lens property, it does not change with the crop. Crop is just you take the middle part of the sensor.
Bokeh is a lens quality: how a lens renders the unsharp parts of a picture...
OK I refrase
...and the limited depth o field you achive in FX with the same lens due to the lower distance for the same field o view...
Any way I call it bokeh
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DOF is a function of magnification. Same lens, same magnification, same DOF.
BOKEH is the rendering of the unsharp parts of the picture, caused by aperture form and glass elements and coatings.
DRAWING is the style of rendering of a lens as a whole, mostly caused by not engineering out "faults" .... even if a lens is next to perfect or APO as some call it this "analytical style" is a form of drawing. What the lens adds or does not add to the picture.
TRANSITIONS are the way the sharp and unsharp parts connect, hard transitions, soft transitions, confusing rough or magic...
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the camera adds noise, changes the relations of colors and contrasts, has more or less resolution, gives you more or less leverage in post
I sum up the quality of a D3/600/750/850 as more "film like" and the quality of a D500 or D810 as more "clean" or "linear"
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DOF is a function of magnification. Same lens, same magnification, same DOF.
Thank you Frank your definitions are all right but it’s not what am I talking about
Same lens, Different field of view, different distance to cover the same object, different DOF
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Thank you Frank your definitions are all right but it’s not what am I talking about
Same lens, Different field of view, different distance to cover the same object, different DOF
theoretically my D850 with 85mm at f/2 and my D500 with 58mm at f/1.4 should be "equivalent" but they are not. Some of that is due to camera properties, some due to lens properties. I gave the definitions to make the distinction easier and not to raise false expectations.
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A smaller sensor always produces more DOF at the same focal length. You loose a stop, going DX, (Half Frame,) from FX. There is a longer dispersion distance of light from the lens' rear element to the corners of a 35mm sized sensor, thus the allowance of more pronounced Bokeh.
I also don't ever understand; "I need to capture wildlife at a distance, therefore I need a smaller sensor." Larger is always better as long as the lens is suited for the task.
That's why professional photographers years ago used 110 film cameras instead of 35mm for football and auto racing.
<humor>
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A smaller sensor always produces more DOF at the same focal length.
Did you mean 'field of view' instead of 'focal length'?
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Hi guys!
Just a quick update in case anyone else is reading this and contemplating the same things!
First off - don't ignore the D500! I had originally written it off since I'd seen it selling used for $1600 at a number of places, but I've since seen it from a reputable shop and from a couple reputable sellers for $1000 used!
As for what I did... Since I'm pretty sure I'll go the route of the 810, but they seem to be fluctuating in price quite a bit right now, too (maybe as people decide what post Z era DSLR's will be worth?), and I haven't landed on any sales at quite the right time, I picked up a D700 in good shape with extras like a RRS tripod attachment locally for half of what I've seen them going for... I figured at that price, I'd try FF for a year and recoup that cost in the depreciation of whatever I go for.
Thanks again for all the advice!
Michael
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First off - don't ignore the D500!
Hi Michael, I didn't. Just got one last week to replace my pretty old D300.
I have had limited chances to use it but like what I see so far.
I shoot more wildlife and sport than wideangle, so was reluctant to go FX.
Being forced to move to Capture NX-D hasn't been so pleasant however (no desire for PS-CC), but I'm sure I'll eventually learn to love it.