NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: mncorrado on January 07, 2019, 20:55:28
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I have a bit of a puzzle to work through. I currently shoot with a D7100 which works fine for me. I also have a decent collection of AI/AIS lenses from my film days many years ago. I am at an age where I might be down to my last camera body purchase. More so from the standpoint of it being able to do all of the things I have an interest in plus coupled with my limited dollars.
Other than some point and shoots... I only have used two camera bodies. A Nikon FE that I loved and still have and now the D7100. Perhaps I crave a full frame camera for all of the wrong reasons but yet I do. At times the shallower depth of field would be extremely nice for me. In addition, it would be nice to have a deeper ISO range coupled with more megapixels in general compared to my D7100 and finally perhaps a better viewfinder.
For me the D850 end all camera is completely out of reach financially. The D810 seems to be in a sweet spot for me at the moment. I can stretch a bit and likely get one with less than 5K snaps on the shutter here locally. I might not be able to financially make it happen sometime in the future. Life happens. Also of course the longer I wait the more likely there will be less 810's with lower shutter counts or less beat up generally. I have looked at the D610 and of course the D750. When I got the D7100 new I stretched a bit from say a 3000/5000 series camera. In hindsight I am glad I did.
I have no plans to dump the D7100 as I like it and it would be a nice camera for my daughters to learn on if they so choose to sometime soon. Though I have my doubts.
What I struggle with is this... should I make the leap sooner rather than later on a D810 while I can vs. wait for the prices of D850's to fall on the used market? I suspect my dollars will have more power with a D810 at the moment vs. waiting for a D850 into the future. I also have looked at the D500 and while a huge upgrade from my D7100 is not full frame.
Perhaps I am looking at all of this from an upside down perspective. I don't know. Any nudges one direction or another will help me. My intuition suggests I should just get the D810 locally with less than 5K snaps and call it good equipment wise related to camera bodies. While perhaps not ideal... my collection of generally well respected older Nikon glass can get me started with the D810 for the moment. The other glass options into the future I can figure out as I go or as needed. Much of the shooting I do does not require auto focus... as in sports. If so I would just continue to use my D7100 for that type of thing for the near future.
Finally the price for the D810 locally is $1300.
Thanks!
Jeff
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D810 is a lot of camera and if you feel the price is right, don't procrastinate on a good deal.
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Thanks! It really is a lot of camera. Does it do everything perfect... of course not. Though for me from a technical perspective it would give me very large toolbox to work from. The price seems right for at the moment. I will go check it out tomorrow and see how it feels and looks. :)
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I plan to watch responses as they are somewhat related to the question I posed just a few days ago. Good luck with your decision!
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Jeff, that's a very good price for a lightly used D810. I stretched a few years ago to buy one (refurbished, which brought the price down, though not to that level). I'd love to upgrade to a D850 for the focusing system, which sounds as though it's a significant step up from the D810. However, used prices are still way up around $3000 and I'll be surprised if they come down anywhere close to your $1300 D810 opportunity for many, many years. Anyway, I can affirm that the D810 is a really capable camera. There's nothing it does badly.
Cheers, and good luck whichever way you go - John
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I'm fortunate enough to have several cameras. The D810 is reserved for for slow photography on a tripod, usually with manual focus lenses, focusing in magnified live view, and standard techniques to minimize vibration. I'm trying to use all the resolution the camera has. I've been very pleased with this camera, and any shortcoming in my results have been due entirely to the user.
However, it's a large camera and I prefer something smaller for walk-around photography. I also prefer the Df for manual-focus lenses when I'm not using a tripod.
The first camera I bought was an FE, and like you I loved that camera for a long time.
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I wonder if it would be possible for you to hire a D500 and a D810 and trie them side-by-side for a weekend?
Both are great cameras, but to me the D500 is a better choice for action, although primarily because of the faster AF system, which may not apply to you.
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So I headed across town to look at a couple of D810's. One of the bodies had 30K naps on it. The other body only had 3,200 plus it included the MB-12. It was priced at $1400.
There is a small glitch or not even sure what to call it. It seemed to have a Type E focus screen in the camera body. I want the default of normal screen in the camera. So not sure what to do about that.
Otherwise I was wowed with the larger viewfinder image compared to my d7100. Super impressive. While bigger than my D7100 it felt fine even in my small hands.
If I go forward with the purchase any suggestion what I should do about the focus screen not being the one I want? I was going to suggest to them they just swap out the screen with the other body they have there.
I am pretty close to making the leap but need some additional feedback one way or another!
Jeff
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1400€ including the grip seems a pretty fair deal given the low shutter count. For the same price you can get a D500 with grip and low shutter count which I would prefer. Check it out in the same shop with the same lens. Great view finder.
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Yes... I will go back either way and also check out the D500.
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The 'E' screen can be quite useful for precise framing and composing a picture. I would have kept it.
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It still is in there... is it expensive or difficult to get the original screen for the camera plus installed?
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Installation of a focus screen is a flick of a clip and it's out, although they can be a little fiddly to install if you aren't used to doing it.
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It still is in there... is it expensive or difficult to get the original screen for the camera plus installed?
it is easy to change focussing screens. I did just change the D850 screen, I did change the D70 screen and the D70s screen, I should have changed the D600 screen too but was too lazy, lost some shots to misfocusding manually that way. No need to change the D500 screen. The D500 features a F6 screen like the D7200 but the view finder is much brighter and larger and better. In fact, after changing the D850 screen to a F6 derivate I sometimes mistake the D500 for the D850, both being quite similar ergonomically too.
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...The D500 features a F6 screen like the D7200 ...
Where do you have that information from with respect to the D7200 and F6 derived screen? I thought the D7100 and D7200 had exactly the same viewfinder and screen. The one that came with the D7100 was way to transparent to provide good manual focusing compared to the KatzEye screen I eventually got for it. I am also curious about the D7500 screen.
BTW I always see D500 mentioned here, while it seems that a D7500 in many respects could be a good alternative and a lot less cost (refurbished bodies widely available and getting down towards $800) and less weight/size , provided that one does not need to use non-chipped manual focus lenses. Personally I am still on the fence with regards to upgrading D7100 though...
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try the D500 and you will see, Øivind
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The 'E' screen can be quite useful for precise framing and composing a picture. I would have kept it.
I agree with this.
However, assuming the D810 carries over most functions from the D800 I'm familiar with, it is possible that the D810 you examined had the grid pattern switched on in the menus. Focusingscreen.com does not presently offer an E screen to install into a D810.
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try the D500 and you will see, Øivind
Frank, I was referring to the D7200 screen that you inferred was of the same matte quality derived from F6 screen as the one in D500. Where does this information come from?
I have checked out the D500 viewfinder in stores a couple of times so I am well aware of how good it is...
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the D7100 & D7200 have the same focussing screen as the F6 as you can see in Nikon's website under specification.
The D500 VF has other constructional advantages, possibly a better Prism. Original Listing price of more than 2700€ with grip which I paid allowed for superior construction
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the D7100 & D7200 have the same focussing screen as the F6 as you can see in Nikon's website under specification.
The D500 VF has other constructional advantages, possibly a better Prism. Original Listing price of more than 2700€ with grip which I paid allowed for superior construction
I am not convinced regarding the statement "same as the F6 screen". This is what I find:
D7100: Type B BriteView Clear Matte Mark II screen
D7200: Type B BriteView Clear Matte Mark II with AF Area Brackets (grid lines can be displayed)
D7500: Type B BriteView Clear Matte Mark II with AF Area Brackets (grid lines can be displayed)
D500 : Type B BriteView Clear Matte Mark II with AF Area Brackets (grid lines can be displayed)
D200: B-type Bright View Clear Matte II (from DPreview, Nikon no longer have specs for the screen on their web site)
F6: Nikon B Focusing Screen for F6 - Standard Matte Screen with AF Marks & 12mm Center Circle (Replacement) (this one was from the B&H web site)
Type B just means it is an all matte screen for normal lenses. The F6 is not listed with the "mark II" specification as far as I could find. Besides that the F6 screen is too big for the DX bodies... So I am not sure where the saying that D500 has an F6 screen comes from, nor that there is no need to change that screen with a more matte one for manual focusing, while the other bodies will need so (according to spec the screens are the same...). The larger viewfinder certainly is nice, but I have been using a DK 17M with my D200/D7100 which probably provides about the same magnification, if not brightness.
Perhaps there are variations hiding behind the Type B BriteView Clear Matte Mark II designation?
The D500 with the latest offering is still about 2x the cost of a refurbished D7500. Is the better viewfinder and AF worth that much?
On the low side is no mode dial with U1/U2, worse battery performance, Larger size and weight (loading my tracker more), battery orientation limit ability to shift sideways on L-bracket (for balance adjustment on the tracker) and still be able to access battery.
An importantly: How does it perform at really low temperatures? During my last evening dog walks at -36°C, my D7100 performed without problems and battery change through the walks. (The D5100 flunked out halfway at 10°C warmer temperatures, which makes me wary of this issue. While it is possible to swap with warm batteries, it is an operation that usually requires taking gloves off...).
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"Focusing screen: B-type BriteView Clear Matte Screen II,
interchangeable with six other optional focusing screens"
from the F6 spec sheet PDF available here:
https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/filmcamera/slr/f6/
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OK, thanks, I did not notice the .pdf. Then it is established that the designation is the same for all of these cameras. (The 5000 series differs though with "Type B BriteView Clear Matte Mark VII screens".) It is still a question if this means that all the Mark II screens are optically the same. Experience tells me that the D200 screen was way too transparent for comfortable manual focusing. So why has the screen for D500 then been praised for being god for manual focusing and not needing replacement? It sure would have been interesting if someone did a photographic comparison between a 7000 series screen and that of the D500, like I did with the Katzeye screens way back, http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?topic=539.0 (http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?topic=539.0).
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I only ownwd a D7000 and the screen was bad for manual focussing because the view finder was too dark and the matte not coarse enough to give this "snap in" feel that tells my eyes "sharp now". That is what I get using the D500 builtin screen as well as the D850 using the F6J replacement from focussingscreen.com.
Yes, the D200 was bad for manual focussing without katzeye. Corseness? Could it be different within the series? I frankly do not know. The D850 without replacement screen was bad IME for manual focussing.
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Well, the original D850 screen does have a different designation, "Type B BriteView Clear Matte Mark VIII with AF Area Brackets (grid lines can be displayed)".
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Well, the original D850 screen does have a different designation, "Type B BriteView Clear Matte Mark VIII with AF Area Brackets (grid lines can be displayed)".
IIRC the Df and the D850 feature the same original screen...
I tried them all. Of the selection seen here the D810 was the best. I replaced the D3 with the D500 (better in every single respect) and the D600 with the D850 (Ditto)
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So I went back to the camera store. I ended up walking out with a nearly new D810. The camera came with all of the original things from the purchase plus the MB-12 battery holder/grip. It had both the carrier for AA batteries and the lithium ion battery. The camera itself seems to be nearly brand new from an exterior point of view. More so as the shutter only has 3,200 snaps on it.
The downside for me is that I don't have any current or relatively current FX glass to mount on the camera. What I do have is a pretty decent collection of AI/AIS glass from my film days. Yes, I know those lenses may not eek out the last bit of theoretical resolution on the camera body but there is a strange "warm-feeling" for me when I mate up that old Nikon glass with a modern digital camera body. On the other hand I rarely shoot sports or action photos... when I do they are usually of my daughters in their sports... distance running and tae kwon do. I can get good photos of them using my D7100 and my kit 18-140 lens. It does the job... at least for me. Is it super easy to do... at times no but it works for me and I am willing to accept the limitations of the D7100 and the glass I have for it.
With my age, skills, and spending dollars... I "suspect" the D810 will be my final camera body from Nikon. Not that I have purchased that many camera bodies before. As I said before I started with a Nikon FE (new purchase), had a number of small point and shoot digital cameras, and made the leap to the D7100 (new purchase) a few years ago. In some respects the FE body was similar to my D7100. A nice body but not top of the line at the time... it got my feet wet and did everything I wanted to do with it. The D810 just gives me pretty much all of the capacity that is missing from the D7100.
Being someone with a background in things technological I probably overthink some things. One thing of course being the megapixel capacity of a camera. Trying to future proof things that I currently don't even use to their maximum potential. Worried about printing a picture yet not really doing so.
When I was a child a few times a year my parents would do slide show night. They would load up the slide projector and we would enjoy photos of the family and places we had been. Mostly just memories. As I type and think out loud I guess perhaps what the best I can hope for is that to happen again at some point in the future. All of those old 35mm film slides have been digitized with my Nikon CoolScan V. Non of my "great" digital shots have been printed yet. My wife is open to a couple being printed and hung up at home. I just need to do it.
Maybe a bit fatalistic in a way but perhaps that might be the best I can hope for with my small little hobby... the slide show once in a while as I enjoyed when I was growing up. Of course the slide show will not be on a big screen in a dark room with a fan running from the projector. It will be images shown on some monster monitor that displays super HD version whatever. Perhaps in a nostalgic way my Nikon FE or some ancient D1700 or now D8100 sitting on a shelf as the tangible connection to the past and the person. The images a hint to what that person was and family.
Everything is in the moment now... captured for a fleeting moment and then purged to oblivion. Capturing images and video from what I call idiot boxes. Don't start me on the "cloud" or other things related to the transitory nature of many things. Maybe the DSLR is doomed to oblivion perhaps not. One thing I have noticed when I have been out in the "field" taking night photos from a busy area of the city that is quite popular... tons of people taking photos with their phones of course... yet at the same time marveling at a simple tripod and my D7100 mounted to it... that I must be some amazing photographer and how much better the images will be compared to their phones. A fair bit of the time someone will say they wish they could do something like that and that it looks like a fun activity. Or some will say that looks too hard to do. I just say it is indeed fun and not hard to do and not too insanely expensive either. It is a great hobby that anyone with some technical skills... which anyone under 50 generally has... can produce amazing images... and be connected to the experience in a way no phone ever will.
Off of my soapbox and blathering... sorry!
So I ended up with a essentially new D810. I suspect it will take me as far as I can go with my hobby. While a stretch to make it happen financially... I am glad I made the leap.
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congratulations. Reward us with some images from your D810 with AI(-S) lenses...
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Mncorrado,
Don't apologize for the "soapbox". I thoroughly enjoyed reading what you had to say. I share many of the same feelings and I wish you all the best with your new investment. Share pictures when you can.
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The D810 is a good camera and they are still being sold new here in Australia.
Your Ai/Ais lenses will work fine on the D810 and this site has a lot of members that still use such glass most creatively on their modern DSLRs and mirrorless cameras - some of the more venerable F-mount lenses being used are nearly 60 yo and older non-F mount lenses also get used quite often by people on this site. ;D - so you most definitely are not alone!
Epson make affordable digital projectors suitable for home use if you have a large enough wall to project onto. On the other hand, slides on a large modern TV are the other way to go - as you point out.
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OK, thanks, I did not notice the .pdf. Then it is established that the designation is the same for all of these cameras. (The 5000 series differs though with "Type B BriteView Clear Matte Mark VII screens".) It is still a question if this means that all the Mark II screens are optically the same. Experience tells me that the D200 screen was way too transparent for comfortable manual focusing. So why has the screen for D500 then been praised for being god for manual focusing and not needing replacement? It sure would have been interesting if someone did a photographic comparison between a 7000 series screen and that of the D500, like I did with the Katzeye screens way back, http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?topic=539.0 (http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?topic=539.0).
A little update, a test of viewfinder images of D500 compared to two Katzeye screens in D200/D7100 is found here:
http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,539.msg137205.html#msg137205 (http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,539.msg137205.html#msg137205)
Interestingly, the D500 stock screen is less transparent/more matte than the D200 Katzeye screen with Optibrite , providing better background blurring. This is quite unexpected as manual focusing improved from the D200 stock screen when the Katzeye screen was installed, and the D200 stock screen has the same designation as the one in D500.
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When the D850 was launched, a lot of people scurried to sell off their 810 cameras. I availed myself of the price drop to buy brand a new D810 from my dealer's stock which with VAT deduction cost me less than the second-hand offerings. It was put straight into my studio for focus stacking and high-magnification work and worked flawlessly for these tasks. I now augment it with a Z7, likewise purchased cheap. All the remote control stuff and A/C supplies are interchangeable.
The D810 is much better than the predecessor D800 for focusing manually. It also has a superior Live View capability again seen against the D800.
Enjoy your D810.
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I have yet to really work with the camera body. I did end up purchasing the Nikkor 28-105mm f3.5-4.5d lens for my one walking around lens... all of my other FX lenses are AI/AIS manual focus types. For the extremely brief amount of time I had the 28-105 mounted on the 810 to see if it worked... I have to say I liked it. I then mounted it to my 7100 and it seemed to work fine there as well.
I have to get outside and start clicking more. There was record snowfall here in the Twin Cities of Minnesota this month. No excuses but the winter has been hitting me hard this year.