NikonGear'23

Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: Nikkor Shooter on December 31, 2018, 15:42:42

Title: Thoughts
Post by: Nikkor Shooter on December 31, 2018, 15:42:42

   Photography is a wonderful discovery,
   a science which occupies the highest intelligences,
   an art that sharpens the most shrewd minds
   and whose application is within the reach of the last of the fools!”
                  — Félix Tournachon, aka Nadar (1857) —


During a class for photography enthusiasts of college and university
levels, I explained that the very best and the very worst cameras are
of the “point and shoot” type. Best because they are ready at any ti-
me and worst because they produce rather lousy pictures.

So, if one wants to achieve higher quality photographs, greater invest-
meets must follow; providing extended everything from dynamic range
to ISO through brighter lenses, very fast shutter speeds, longer and so
much faster frame rates, auto-focus, etc, etc, etc. All the technical re-
finements must be included.

“Yes, I understand what you say but doesn’t that lead to ever more com-
plicated cameras?” asked a student.

“We all agree that photography is a science which occupies the higher
intelligences; it is those users that need all that stuff to accommodate
the artistic intents of their sharp, shrewd minds.” I answered.

Another asked: “Ok, let’s say that you have in front of you the flagships
of several cameras manufacturers which is the first and most important
feature you will be looking for, even trigger an eventual purchase?"

"All sections in the menus should have enough flexibility for me to confi-
gure all shooting parameters so it will behave like a good point & shoot!"
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Kenneth Rich on January 01, 2019, 02:41:11
How about:"The camera should have enough flexibility for me to confi-
gure all shooting parameters so it will behave like a good film camera!"
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Nikkor Shooter on January 01, 2019, 03:54:03
… so it will behave like a good film camera!"

Sorry Kenneth but no film cameras can outperform
a DSLR when it comes extreme shooting conditions.

HNY to you :P
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Kenneth Rich on January 01, 2019, 04:40:15
Well, I often think of my Df as my film camera. HNY2U2.
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Nikkor Shooter on January 01, 2019, 04:43:40
Well, I often think of my Df as my film camera. HNY2U2.

It might have the body but not the soul!   8)
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Peter Connan on January 01, 2019, 07:23:08
I am a bit weird. I tend to rely on my camera's technical abilities, rather than my own artistry, since I don't have much of that.

I don't want my camera to behave like a point and shoot. I find them incredibly frustrating.

But I do want to be able to configure it to suit my needs for the particular photo I am taking.

The marvel of the modern high-end DSLR is probably just that. The fact that, with a bit of effort, it can be configured to suit almost every user, and every type of picture one can imagine.

Happy new year!
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 01, 2019, 10:00:28
It might have the body but not the soul!   8)

Many Df users would strongly object to that description :D

A camera that brings back enjoyment to one's photography is not to be written off in that manner ...
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Nikkor Shooter on January 01, 2019, 10:25:57
I am a bit weird. I tend to rely on my camera's technical abilities, rather than my own artistry, since I don't have much of that.
It is well after the ABC that children may discover
their talent for poetry expression with words.

I don't want my camera to behave like a point and shoot. I find them incredibly frustrating.
Peter, I wrote "behave" and not "perform" like a P&S.  8)
With the combo you have, it must be clear to you!

But I do want to be able to configure it to suit my needs for the particular photo I am taking.
Exactly, right on. As image hunter, I will not back off
when things get out of control if I control the camera.


HNY, Peter!
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Nikkor Shooter on January 01, 2019, 10:30:34
Many Df users would strongly object to that description :D

A camera that brings back enjoyment to one's photography is not to be written off in that manner ...

Hi Birna,
I said "the" soul not "a" soul!

HNY! :)
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 01, 2019, 10:41:45
I read what you wrote and I heartily disagree.
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Nikkor Shooter on January 01, 2019, 10:58:12
I read what you wrote and I heartily disagree.

I got that… but in what do you disagree?
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 01, 2019, 11:17:04
That the Df lacks "the soul". Of course. I have been using each and every Nikon camera made for decades and Df has more soul than virtually any of them. It lines nicely up with the F and F2, though, but for being digital. It might even equal or surpass my previous all-time favourite, the Nikon F2 Titan.
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Nikkor Shooter on January 01, 2019, 11:31:13
It lines nicely up with the F and F2, though, but for being digital.

Yes, it has something with my old FM2 as well… but this is
not in my proposition. In short, it has the looks (for sure)
but not the readiness to extreme image hunting.
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 01, 2019, 11:34:18
On the contrary, the Df is the ultimate picture machine. In my view. The looks are just circumstantial evidence. Put on say a 105/2.5 and experience true synergy in your shooting.
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Frank Fremerey on January 01, 2019, 11:41:09
with this quote up front, the last topic connected to it seems to me hardware.

The means are within reach of everyone. I type these words on a camera phone with capabilities far beyond the point and shoot cameras of my youth.

Yet to make a fool of oneself one can use such a device or a top shelve flagship camera.

The real point is how to use the tools at hand and not make a fool of oneself and the answer lies in the first part of the quote: make it an art or a science or both like Michael Erlewine...
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on January 01, 2019, 13:37:26
On the contrary, the Df is the ultimate picture machine. In my view. The looks are just circumstantial evidence. Put on say a 105/2.5 and experience true synergy in your shooting.

It is true. I spent the day with that lens in front of a Z6 and while it works just fine, it does not have the same soul as on the Df. I may work with the Df tomorrow just to be sure.
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Frank Fremerey on January 01, 2019, 13:53:41
Df Df Df ... for me the good tool disappears in my hands, blends into my body, becomes an extension of my mind and soul. The camera itself does not need soul imo, it needs the reliability of a tool that helps me make pictures of my ideas.
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: John Geerts on January 01, 2019, 14:31:58
On the contrary, the Df is the ultimate picture machine. In my view. The looks are just circumstantial evidence. Put on say a 105/2.5 and experience true synergy in your shooting.
Exactly.  Other camera's can't match that experience.
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Fons Baerken on January 01, 2019, 15:02:00
I prefer to think as little as possible taking pictures, taking pictures is beyond thinking.
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Jacques Pochoy on January 01, 2019, 17:38:04
I prefer to think as little as possible taking pictures, taking pictures is beyond thinking.

I agree with that "Zen and the picture taking" experience... 8)
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Nikkor Shooter on January 01, 2019, 17:49:23
I prefer to think as little as possible taking pictures, taking pictures is beyond thinking.
I agree with that "Zen and the picture taking" experience... 8)

I second you both and that's why the combo
should perform like a proper high end P&S.
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Matthew Currie on January 01, 2019, 20:18:23
I figure the main difference is that the P&S camera's settings are made by someone else.  Although sometimes I want to play around with settings, most of the time I want just to pick up the camera and shoot with little or no added input, but I want the starting settings to be mine.
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Frank Fremerey on January 02, 2019, 10:08:15
my smartphones allow for manual everything. With f/2.0 typical and dual camera bokeh effects I do not see anything missing except for RAW and exchangable lenses
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 02, 2019, 10:47:26
The f/2 aperture has little impact on the image as the focal length is miniscule ... Bokeh and depth of field are functions of physical aperture size (and magnification).
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Seapy on January 02, 2019, 10:53:58
I do not see anything missing except for RAW and exchangable lenses

A nice large sensor, that's what's missing.  (Using a 'smart'phone camera) It's like looking at the world through a pinhole.

I long for the day we can have a 10" X 8" sensor, a nice big lens, a lovely heavy tripod and a back cloth to compose the image under ...and movements of course!

Just my idea of a dream camera, spend half a day composing and taking one photograph. (Rather than having the camera rattle off fifty and it select 'the best'.)

Point and shoot is what you do with a gun.
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Eddie Draaisma on January 02, 2019, 11:43:49
The f/2 aperture has little impact on the image as the focal length is miniscule ... Bokeh and depth of field are functions of physical aperture size (and magnification).

The bokeh of dual-camera smartphones is 'computed', and as such has not a lot to do anymore with physical aperture size and magnification.
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 02, 2019, 11:46:35
Even worse. A total surrender to the whims of the engineers.
Title: Re: Thoughts
Post by: Frank Fremerey on January 02, 2019, 16:16:32
Even worse. A total surrender to the whims of the engineers.

,😁😂😁🤣🤣 engineering art