NikonGear'23

Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on October 22, 2018, 08:48:36

Title: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on October 22, 2018, 08:48:36
Found those lenses sold after a the US company NYE OPTICAL was dissolved after the owner and inventor Robert Nye deceased.

This one is a rather special f1.1/90mm catoptric mirror lens (i.e. no glass involved, only mirrors), Cassegrain design.

I had written about that before here: http://forum.mflenses.com/lyman-alpha-f1-1-90mm-catoptric-lens-t47139,highlight,%2Blyman.html (http://forum.mflenses.com/lyman-alpha-f1-1-90mm-catoptric-lens-t47139,highlight,%2Blyman.html)

Now some first results after proper (infinity reaching) conversion on my Panasonic GH4, images selected for the special bokeh it has...

#1
(http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201810/455_Nye_P2410050_c_1.jpg) (http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201810/big_455_Nye_P2410050_c_1.jpg)

#2
(http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201810/455_Nye_P2400511_c_1.jpg) (http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201810/big_455_Nye_P2400511_c_1.jpg)

#3
(http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201810/455_Nye_P2400809_c_1.jpg) (http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201810/big_455_Nye_P2400809_c_1.jpg)

#4
(http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201810/455_Nye_P2400681_c_1.jpg) (http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201810/big_455_Nye_P2400681_c_1.jpg)

This lens allows to be used even below 200nm in UV (hence the name LYMAN ALPHA as this is the Hydrogen 121nm line), so more will follow
about the use in UV...
Title: Re: Lyman Alpha Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on October 22, 2018, 09:52:44
And here about that rather unusual bokeh...

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1927/31615530658_6058c6eac5_o.jpg)

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1933/31615530508_46fa4ae406_o.jpg)

(one for Toby, I guess...)
Title: Re: Lyman Alpha Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Birna Rørslett on October 22, 2018, 09:57:15
Our dear Jakov would go wild with such a lens.
Title: Re: Lyman Alpha Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: John Geerts on October 22, 2018, 11:38:24
Really exceptional, especially the last one ;)
Title: Re: Lyman Alpha Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Akira on October 22, 2018, 12:14:45
Look like soap bubbles rather than doughnuts!  :D

Amazing tool for the exstreme abstraction!
Title: Re: Lyman Alpha Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Jakov Minić on October 22, 2018, 12:21:27
Birna, you are right, I am craving!!!!
That is what I call a bokeh, I love it!
I am really impressed!
Title: Re: Lyman Alpha Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Frank Fremerey on October 22, 2018, 12:28:30
Never seen anything like that before. Interesting, but not for me. Happy to see you grow on this lens. More results?
Title: Re: Lyman Alpha Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Thomas Stellwag on October 22, 2018, 15:26:12
quite ashonishing pictures, Klaus, your sensor must get seasick  :)
the first and the last are my favs
Title: Re: Lyman Alpha Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: golunvolo on October 22, 2018, 15:57:59
That´s an interesting way to see reality  ::)

  Thanks Dr. Klaus for yet another one! I like them all
Title: Re: Lyman Alpha Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on October 22, 2018, 16:39:07
Thanks guys! Indeed, quite an extreme lens this is...

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1965/44575205265_319f2194cf_o.jpg)

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1918/45437540412_fdd18385ea_o.jpg)

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1911/44763706094_59424ef172_o.jpg)

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1918/44763707464_b47c351239_o.jpg)



Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Erik Lund on October 24, 2018, 09:58:30

Must be quite intersting to look through the viewfinder ;) great images!


On a side note,,,A glassless lens, I wonder if this is what initiated all this I hear about mirrorless,,, ::)
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on October 24, 2018, 21:46:26
Must be quite intersting to look through the viewfinder ;) great images!


On a side note,,,A glassless lens, I wonder if this is what initiated all this I hear about mirrorless,,, ::)

Thanks Erik! Well it is not "glassless", as those two mirrors inside are made of a block of Schott ZERODUR
from what I know, which still is a special glass...
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on October 30, 2018, 00:40:58
Some images in reflected UV (300-400nm) taken with it:

(https://a4.pbase.com/o10/08/747708/1/168315514.elr2cAK1.Nye_LymanAlphaII_UV_P1740580a_c.jpg)

(https://a4.pbase.com/o10/08/747708/1/168315516.ow9t1jSu.Nye_LymanAlphaII_UV_P1740579a_c.jpg)
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on November 12, 2018, 12:14:12
late Autumn... [beware if you have vertigo...]

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4840/44025579640_645d343199_o.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4902/45117488174_115bb9bd15_o.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4917/44025583370_f1b0b1a427_o.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4803/45117483514_389634b95d_o.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4821/44025576180_509394cf3c_o.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4860/31971224908_61d56a46f3_o.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4896/44929336725_a02414d10d_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 12, 2018, 13:08:25
The last one is particularly striking. Well deserving the vertigo warning.
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Frank Fremerey on November 12, 2018, 14:30:57
Very very different effect. Very interesting. Any idea what to do with it apart from the "special effect". Any serious use?
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Airy on November 12, 2018, 14:49:12
can you show us the lens ? (not needed - I overlooked you provided link)
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on November 12, 2018, 16:13:57
Very very different effect. Very interesting. Any idea what to do with it apart from the "special effect". Any serious use?

Yes, of course: UV photography!!
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on November 14, 2018, 19:11:25
The last one is particularly striking. Well deserving the vertigo warning.

Thanks Birna!

Here focused and defocused in comparison:

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4896/44929336725_a02414d10d_o.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4805/31971222408_c126dce231_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Erik Lund on November 14, 2018, 19:26:04
Spectacular effect, really striking ;)
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Termite on November 17, 2018, 10:28:40
Your pictures really show that smooth beautiful bokeh isn't the only kind of bokeh worth exploring. I'd like to see many more photographs with these lenses -- what will it look like if you use them for portraits?
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on November 17, 2018, 14:26:24
Spectacular effect, really striking ;)

Thanks Erik! Very unique indeed!

Your pictures really show that smooth beautiful bokeh isn't the only kind of bokeh worth exploring. I'd like to see many more photographs with these lenses -- what will it look like if you use them for portraits?

Look at my albums I have on flickr about those special mirror lenses, there is much more to see:

Lyman Alpha II f1.1/90mm: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums/72157702692038345 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums/72157702692038345)

Lyman Alpha I f2.8/200mm: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums/72157699470528922 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums/72157699470528922)

Here is a portrait with the f1.1/90mm:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4833/44929343365_9260067703_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Termite on November 17, 2018, 23:58:34
Thank you for the links! I used to believe that the most desirable bokeh was the one the Otus lenses give, smooth and creamy, but now I'm beginning to realize that bokeh is just one more tool for artistic expression.
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Gary on November 18, 2018, 03:52:26
I absolutely need one of these!
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on November 18, 2018, 10:20:16
I absolutely need one of these!

Sorry, but the inventor passed away in 2012 and there won't be any anymore...
except you find a used one :-)
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Gary on November 18, 2018, 16:38:27
Sorry, but the inventor passed away in 2012 and there won't be any anymore...
except you find a used one :-)

 :(
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: golunvolo on November 18, 2018, 21:40:18
Striking images Dr Klaus. You have us spoiled
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on November 18, 2018, 22:31:20
(http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201811/455_P2460438_c_1.jpg) (http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201811/big_455_P2460438_c_1.jpg)

Red Amber Tree leaf...
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: golunvolo on November 18, 2018, 23:19:44
Inter-dimensional lens... 8)

   I love it
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on November 19, 2018, 09:27:00
Inter-dimensional lens... 8)

   I love it

Very unique indeed, never seen similar ;-)
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: John Geerts on November 19, 2018, 10:59:15
Yes, love it.

Is such a lens easy to 'reproduce' ?
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on November 19, 2018, 12:45:18
Yes, love it.

Is such a lens easy to 'reproduce' ?

If you are willing to grind mirrors and have them coated, sure ;-)
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on November 19, 2018, 12:46:21
Btw. here is a video I took a while ago using this lens: https://youtu.be/9H2xTk7z7rI (https://youtu.be/9H2xTk7z7rI)
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: John Geerts on November 19, 2018, 13:07:07
 :)   Thanks for the link. Really looks 3 dimensional.

Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Termite on November 19, 2018, 15:17:02
Thanks for the video! I'd like to see you walk down a street with this lens, to see what it would do to houses and people.
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on November 19, 2018, 18:09:19
Thanks for the video! I'd like to see you walk down a street with this lens, to see what it would do to houses and people.

Difficult, as DOF is razor thin, and I don't have a follow focus...
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Termite on November 20, 2018, 21:49:21
Quote
Difficult, as DOF is razor thin, and I don't have a follow focus...

Ah, I  meant what houses and people would look like if you shot them similar to the pictures above.  I wasn't expecting perfect follow focus   ;)
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on November 21, 2018, 08:36:06
Ah, I  meant what houses and people would look like if you shot them similar to the pictures above.  I wasn't expecting perfect follow focus   ;)

Have a look, here is some in there: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums/72157702692038345 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums/72157702692038345)
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on November 22, 2018, 00:08:55
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4898/45905506962_16747b7603_o.jpg)

Amber tree (aka American Sweetgum) in late autumn
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Robert Camfield on November 24, 2018, 00:39:09
Klaus,

Very, very interesting...I don't have a sense of the optics, and why the out-of-focus areas are rendered circular, rather swirl-like.

Thanks much...Robert
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on November 28, 2018, 00:36:46
Klaus,

Very, very interesting...I don't have a sense of the optics, and why the out-of-focus areas are rendered circular, rather swirl-like.

Thanks much...Robert

It is this special mirror lens construction which causes a bent field, as there are no field flatteners, as in other mirror lenses.
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on November 28, 2018, 16:10:08
(https://a4.pbase.com/o10/08/747708/1/168458969.FmiU6FW0.UVNikkor_105_vs_Nye_90mm_2a_c.jpg)

Its does UV, too. A rather "unfriendly" comparision of its f1.1 to the UV Nikkor 105mm at f4.5 (left) [UV-Nikkor 105mm with Baader-U front filter, Lyman Alpha II with rear UG11+S8612 filter stack]
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Robert Camfield on November 30, 2018, 03:42:39
Klaus,

Thanks for clarifying the point regarding the bent field...The comparison with the Nikkor - an orchid perhaps - provides further evidence of the capabilities of the UV 105.

Tks, Robert   
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on December 04, 2018, 16:02:22
Klaus,

Thanks for clarifying the point regarding the bent field...The comparison with the Nikkor - an orchid perhaps - provides further evidence of the capabilities of the UV 105.

Tks, Robert

Indeed it does, yet those mirror lenses also have their merits, as there is no focus shift over a very wide field, deep-UV to far-IR for instance and there are quite longer focal lengths available, too. And not to forget their high speed (low f-stop) like this f1.1 lens (effective about f1.4 due to the central obstruction)
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Frank Fremerey on December 04, 2018, 19:26:46
(https://a4.pbase.com/o10/08/747708/1/168458969.FmiU6FW0.UVNikkor_105_vs_Nye_90mm_2a_c.jpg)

Its does UV, too. A rather "unfriendly" comparision of its f1.1 to the UV Nikkor 105mm at f4.5 (left) [UV-Nikkor 105mm with Baader-U front filter, Lyman Alpha II with rear UG11+S8612 filter stack]

I do understand right: there is no aperture mechanism to create a comparable DOF? can it be built into a shutter with aperture mech like a Copal?
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Akira on December 04, 2018, 20:48:08
Now that I've seen amazing images shot with the m4/3 camera, my interest has been shifted to the original purpose of the lens.

Apparently, it has a very tiny image circle, it one looks at it as an image making lens.  Is it designed for a tiny sensor, or purely for the "detection" of the 121nm spectrum coming from the deep space?
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on December 06, 2018, 17:26:21
Now that I've seen amazing images shot with the m4/3 camera, my interest has been shifted to the original purpose of the lens.

Apparently, it has a very tiny image circle, it one looks at it as an image making lens.  Is it designed for a tiny sensor, or purely for the "detection" of the 121nm spectrum coming from the deep space?

It was designed to be used not just for a tiny sensor, it was advertized and sold for 24x36mm full format cameras AND image intensifiers with 25mm image diameter (mft has 24mm), so since I used it on a mft camera, it is very close to what it was once made for.

It was not JUST made for the 121nm Hydrogen line, but to ALSO be able to image in deep UV, so it reaches actually very far into UV (as per the makers ads). For me I only use it in the 300-700nm range...
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Akira on December 06, 2018, 18:47:30
It was designed to be used not just for a tiny sensor, it was advertized and sold for 24x36mm full format cameras AND image intensifiers with 25mm image diameter (mft has 24mm), so since I used it on a mft camera, it is very close to what it was once made for.

It was not JUST made for the 121nm Hydrogen line, but to ALSO be able to image in deep UV, so it reaches actually very far into UV (as per the makers ads). For me I only use it in the 300-700nm range...

Thank you for the detail, Klaus.  So, by its design, the image intensifier should be placed so close to the lens that it is impossible even on a mirrorless camera (because of its shutter mechanism, AA filter and UV/IR cut filter)?
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on December 10, 2018, 17:43:29
Thank you for the detail, Klaus.  So, by its design, the image intensifier should be placed so close to the lens that it is impossible even on a mirrorless camera (because of its shutter mechanism, AA filter and UV/IR cut filter)?

The back focal of these lenses is ADJUSTABLE for any given use (Image Intensifier, DSLR, mirrorless camera, ...) so it should be optimized for that. Huge benefit other lenses do not have!!
Title: Re: Lyman-Alpha II Experimental f1.1/90mm mirror lens
Post by: Akira on December 10, 2018, 21:59:54
The back focal of these lenses is ADJUSTABLE for for any given use (Image Intensifier, DSLR, mirrorless camera, ...) so it should be optimized for that. Huge benefit other lenses do not have!!

Wow, that is amazing!