NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Other => Topic started by: CS on September 05, 2018, 20:01:12
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This is a question about getting a good A/S compatible monopod head. So basically it's a RSS vs Kirk monopod thread, because I believe they are the top choices. So, I'm looking for remarks from those with experience, which I hope will keep me from buying the wrong one. As it stands, the Kirk looks to be the better choice, and the least expensive to boot. But, I have not used either brand, my only experience is with the Bogen/Manfrotto swivel, which is rated for light gear only (no big lenses), and it's not A/S compatible as it comes.
A review that I read on Amazon complained that the RSS had no drag friction, it was either open or locked. The same review said that the Kirk was better in that regard. Let the comments begin. ;D
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Hi Carl, I have the RRS monopod head for over a decade now and still very pleased with it.
To my knowledge both the RRS and Kirk heads have one knob to set the drag friction and to lock it whereas most of their tripod heads have separate knobs for locking and setting the minimum drag.
The RRS head has built in arca plate on the bottom so it can be used as a poormans alternative for a Wimberley head when mounted on a tripod head where you can combine the panning function of the tripod head and tilting function of the monopod head.
Lately I've changed my tripod head to one with a limited tilting range, the monopod head can be used to extend that range sideways for portrait mode (when you forget the l-plate) or to shoot straight up or down. Attached a quick snapshot of a possible setup for portrait mode.
Whichever head you decide to buy my advice would be to get one with a screw clamp and have the security screws mounted on your lens or camera plate. On the first NG safari my 200-400VR was hanging on one of the little security screws because the RRS lever clamp couldn't keep the 200-400VR with RRS plate in place when I was walking around with the monopod swung over my shoulder :o :o Needles to say I replaced the lever clamp with screw clamp shortly after the almost fatal event.
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Sunwayfoto makes one. It is basically RSS copy, so maybe it is not for a purist (lol), but is more affordable. I haven't used one, but I have used a small ballhead, two panning plates, a universal long rail and a universal rail with the clamp, and they are all well made. All mentioned here are A-S compatible.
http://www.sunwayfoto.com/e_goodsDetail.aspx?gId=1259
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For tripod work I have the Arca-Swiss B1 w/RSS lever clamp, and I'm 100% satisfied with it. But for my monopod I need a swivel head which I prefer over alternative heads. I had a Bogen, which has pulled a Houdini since our move last year, but it was inadequate anyway. So I'd rather have a good quality head and not need it, than to need it and not have it. My solution is to try buying right to begin with. On occasion, I do rent larger lenses, and that rules out another Bogen/Manfrotto.
I have not tried my 70-300 VR AF-P DX on a monopod yet, so I dunno what to expect since it mounts on my D7200 that has no way to turn off VR. Does anyone have any experience with that setup? At almost 80 yrs old, I'm finding tripods and monopods to be more my speed than in my younger years. There's a mama dove and baby living in a bush beside my place and I think a monopod may be my best bet for getting decent shot.
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Thanks for the tip about the lever vs knob clamp lock for the monopod head, JA. Besides, it's also less expensive. :)
Thank you too, Akira-san. To tell the truth, I dunno much about the RSS/Kirk alternatives, and I just want to play it safe with the first purchase. That's pretty much why I've not included other brands. Not that there aren't any worthy ones out there, but more that I don't wanna have to return and re-purchase. ;)
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If your main purpose is to use AF-P 70-300 VR on a monopod, you would be just fine with the B1 on the monopod? With the B1 slightly loosened, you should be able to follow the subject easily and freely while supporting the rig.
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Carl, I have had a RRS monopod head for a while. Out of the box, it was very nice except for one thing. There was quite a bit of side-to-side play at the pivot when the lock was loosened. I ended up using a pair of nylon washers to take up the slack. After sanding the washers to the correct thickness, I cut a segment out of the washers so they would snap onto the shaft like an "e-clip." Not really elegant, but they still work.
The lock itself came with nylon washers already installed for braking. It has a big knob that is easy to adjust. It is not like a fluid head, but I disagree about it being only locked or loose. I hold the camera whenever I use the knob anyway, as a monopod user would be doing already.
The first attachment shows one of the "hacked" washers, there is another on the other side.
The pivot shaft is located behind the logo seen in the second attachment. A panning base or a rotating center column make it into a tilt & pan of sorts. I have also used the dovetail on the base clamped onto a ballhead to make a downward shot.
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I would recommend the Kirk MPA 2
https://www.kirkphoto.com/kirk-mpa-2-monopod-head.html
And i am not carrying a supertele- camera combination mounted on the monopod by just grabbing the pod
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If your main purpose is to use AF-P 70-300 VR on a monopod, you would be just fine with the B1 on the monopod? With the B1 slightly loosened, you should be able to follow the subject easily and freely while supporting the rig.
No, that's not at all my main purpose for using my monopod. I only asked because I don't yet know how the 70-300 AF-P performs on a monopod with the VR still turned on. Normally, I would have a much shorter zoom or prime on the monopod. I'm also not sure how close I can get to those doves, so the 70-300 might be needed.
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Carl, I have had a RRS monopod head for a while. Out of the box, it was very nice except for one thing. There was quite a bit of side-to-side play at the pivot when the lock was loosened. I ended up using a pair of nylon washers to take up the slack. After sanding the washers to the correct thickness, I cut a segment out of the washers so they would snap onto the shaft like an "e-clip." Not really elegant, but they still work.
The lock itself came with nylon washers already installed for braking. It has a big knob that is easy to adjust. It is not like a fluid head, but I disagree about it being only locked or loose. I hold the camera whenever I use the knob anyway, as a monopod user would be doing already.
The first attachment shows one of the "hacked" washers, there is another on the other side.
The pivot shaft is located behind the logo seen in the second attachment. A panning base or a rotating center column make it into a tilt & pan of sorts. I have also used the dovetail on the base clamped onto a ballhead to make a downward shot.
I have to admit that needing to add washers to take up slack at those prices is a turn off for me. Thanks for the response anyway, Sam.
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I would recommend the Kirk MPA 2
https://www.kirkphoto.com/kirk-mpa-2-monopod-head.html
And i am not carrying a supertele- camera combination mounted on the monopod by just grabbing the pod
Thanks Wolf, this looks like the stronger candidate to me.
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It is very strong and can lock the heaviest Superteles
I second Jan Annes recommendation for a screw clamp not a lever clamp. There are tolerances in plate that can make the latter a nuissance with the required readjustments
The screw clamp is too small for my taste, my Burzynsky-modified Manfrotto is better in this aspect but this head is too weak
Did not go for the RRS because it appears to be a less compact construction
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I have to admit that needing to add washers to take up slack at those prices is a turn off for me. Thanks for the response anyway, Sam.
It was for me too! :)
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ProMediaGear HM1 Monopod Tilt Head might also be an option: http://www.promediagear.com/HM1-Monopod-Head--Tilt-Head_p_218.html
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using the sunway since 3 years now (not very often) , I can say it works without problems.
You need normally only a 90° rotation, to switch from camera mounted plate to lens mounted plate with your monopod, but have never seen this.
Thus I use as well sometimes a 360° rotation by Sunwayfoto.
On the other hand, using a Swiss Monostat with its super foot, in most cases I do really not need to use the head, as the foot allows enough tilt angle.
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using the sunway since 3 years now (not very often) , I can say it works without problems.
You need normally only a 90° rotation, to switch from camera mounted plate to lens mounted plate with your monopod, but have never seen this.
Thus I use as well sometimes a 360° rotation by Sunwayfoto.
On the other hand, using a Swiss Monostat with its super foot, in most cases I do really not need to use the head, as the foot allows enough tilt angle.
Thank you, Thomas. That is an interesting design, but I'm unable to source it here in the US. B&H, etc, simply list the brand as "No longer available".
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Carl, I use monopod a lot for motor racing, for many years I used the monopod mounted directly onto the lens collar via a Manfrotto RC2 plate on either the 300 f/2.8 or 400 f/4, even today when I have heads to spare I don't use them on a monopod for rare occasions I need portrait mode I rotate the lens in it's collar. I wouldn't dream of mounting a body on a monopod via a swivel to portrait mode, it would throw the whole assembly way out of balance to one side, you would be constantly battling against the imbalance.
Quick word on the Area type dovetail plate clamps, some of the clamping screws have twin start threads, which are quicker to fully release or take up the slack but don't clamp the plate as well as the single start screw. In fact, less than 50% less grip for a given tightness, because the pitch is double that of a single start thread. My expectation would be a greater tendency to work loose too.
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Carl, I use monopod a lot for motor racing, for many years I used the monopod mounted directly onto the lens collar via a Manfrotto RC2 plate on either the 300 f/2.8 or 400 f/4, even today when I have heads to spare I don't use them on a monopod for rare occasions I need portrait mode I rotate the lens in it's collar. I wouldn't dream of mounting a body on a monopod via a swivel to portrait mode, it would throw the whole assembly way out of balance to one side, you would be constantly battling against the imbalance.
Quick word on the Area type dovetail plate clamps, some of the clamping screws have twin start threads, which are quicker to fully release or take up the slack but don't clamp the plate as well as the single start screw. In fact, less than 50% less grip for a given tightness, because the pitch is double that of a single start thread. My expectation would be a greater tendency to work loose too.
Thanks, Seapy, I do appreciate your reasoning when it comes to mounting on a monopod, but my reasoning is different. I'm using the monopod for support, and to carry the weight of the gear, which I find beneficial as I age. Here's a very short video from RRS that shows the main difference between ball heads and tilt heads on a monopod. I don't find tilt heads restrictive for my shooting, YMMV.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbwKJ6EWVek
I am curios about your remark concerning the A/S plate clamps. You say some have twin start threads while some don't, and you lost me there. It looks like the single start screw is preferred, but I am not sure which clamps, RRS, Kirk, etc, have which screws. Can you elaborate on that with some particular models?
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Hi Carl, During the creation of my 'Pano Head with a Difference' I bought various Arca style clamps and bases, until now I have stuck with Manfrotto CS2 clamps because they are very quick and easy to assemble one handed if needs be. However I can see some benefits from the Arca style clamps, it seems I may have to run the two side by side...
However, as I do, ::) I dismantled some of these clamps to modify them, I ran into problems because some of the clamps use a twin start thread, you can't tell from the outside unless you know what you are looking for. The pitch angle is double that of the single pitch, so for one turn of the screw, it travels 2mm. instead of 1mm., the threads are 6mm diameter, 1mm. pitch is standard.
I feel although the double thread is faster, the clamping force is at best halved. Also the faster, double thread could be susceptible to working loose in use due to wriggling in the clamp.
Identifying makes may not help because there are so many out there. I doubt if many people realise there are the two types, all I can do is raise your and others awareness of the differences. With mail order in the UK you can return goods easily if you don't like them for whatever reason. One of the single start clamps is marked Andoer, I machined off the makers mark on the twin start clamp during my mods, so I don't know the make of that one.
I don't know if the 'better' makes use twin start screws or not, some may. Easy way to tell is to turn the screw one turn and check if the clamp moves 1mm it's single start and if it moves 2mm. it's twin start.
I agree about the cam lever clamp not being ideal, especially after some time you may accumulate various different makes of clamp, all slightly different, requiring adjustment when mounting different combinations of clamp and plate.
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Hi Carl, During the creation of my 'Pano Head with a Difference' I bought various Arca style clamps and bases, until now I have stuck with Manfrotto CS2 clamps because they are very quick and easy to assemble one handed if needs be. However I can see some benefits from the Arca style clamps, it seems I may have to run the two side by side...
However, as I do, ::) I dismantled some of these clamps to modify them, I ran into problems because some of the clamps use a twin start thread, you can't tell from the outside unless you know what you are looking for. The pitch angle is double that of the single pitch, so for one turn of the screw, it travels 2mm. instead of 1mm., the threads are 6mm diameter, 1mm. pitch is standard.
I feel although the double thread is faster, the clamping force is at best halved. Also the faster, double thread could be susceptible to working loose in use due to wriggling in the clamp.
Identifying makes may not help because there are so many out there. I doubt if many people realise there are the two types, all I can do is raise your and others awareness of the differences. With mail order in the UK you can return goods easily if you don't like them for whatever reason. One of the single start clamps is marked Andoer, I machined off the makers mark on the twin start clamp during my mods, so I don't know the make of that one.
I don't know if the 'better' makes use twin start screws or not, some may. Easy way to tell is to turn the screw one turn and check if the clamp moves 1mm it's single start and if it moves 2mm. it's twin start.
I agree about the cam lever clamp not being ideal, especially after some time you may accumulate various different makes of clamp, all slightly different, requiring adjustment when mounting different combinations of clamp and plate.
Thanks again, Seapy. I will call the manufacturers and inquire about their screws, and I had no idea that there was a difference. Indeed, I should know by now not to expect industry standards with things like this. I do recall that back some time ago RRS had a warning about mixing their clamp gear while using the RRS lever clamp with Kirk plates due to a size difference. Thus they recommended the screw clamp instead.
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Thanks Carl, will be interested to know if they do use twin-start threads.
I checked out getting a twin-start tap and die, they aren't common and quite expensive, I could have bought several clamps for the price of a set of twin-start taps and a die. I damaged the threads on one of the clamps because the screws are glued (Locktite?) into the clamps and I forcefully removed it and damaged the threads in the process! LOL I kinda fixed up the threads and glued it back in, it works OK. ;D
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Thanks Carl, will be interested to know if they do use twin-start threads.
I checked out getting a twin-start tap and die, they aren't common and quite expensive, I could have bought several clamps for the price of a set of twin-start taps and a die. I damaged the threads on one of the clamps because the screws are glued (Locktite?) into the clamps and I forcefully removed it and damaged the threads in the process! LOL I kinda fixed up the threads and glued it back in, it works OK. ;D
My results are limited to Kirk and RRS screw clamps. I called Kirk and they said they use double start screws with a "marshmallow" type of grease on the threads that "helps to keep it from coming loose". Really Right Stuff, OTOH, said that they use single start screws. Both Kirk and RRS clamps are well rated here, although I have not seen any response from a Kirk owner.
I wonder if the side play issue that Sam encountered with his RRS head was an anomaly, and even if it wasn't he was happy with the head. Cost wise, RRS screw clamp head is $40 more than the Kirk head, and has the advantage of employing the single start screw. That vs the Kirk design advantage of having the Allen wrench needed for changing the registry of the clamp as a built in accessory. I admit to being impressed by that feature because retrieving a little wrench of that nature when needed is normally an adventure for me.
All said and done, I guess the RRS clamp takes top honors. Of course if anyone has a better alternative, I'll give it a few days before I order, just in case. ;)
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I also considered the RRS MH-02 because of the "Clamp can be positioned in any one of four indexed stops without tools" feature. I eventually decided to go with the bare MH-01 and use the RRS clamp that I already owned. Also wanted to cut some cost.
The lever release clamp has never given me any reason for doubt. I do use lighter weight equipment than some others though. They are claimed to be self adjusting and I sort of assumed there is a stack of spring washers keeping tension on the cam portion of the lever as it toggles into the locked position. They do strongly advise using a plate from the same manufacturer. I have and like their "Pro" screw clamp as well.
As far as the end play on the hinge, they have a reasonable return policy anyway. I mentioned it only because it is something of which I would have wanted to be made aware. Would be interested to know if mine is an anomaly, when you get a chance to examine one.
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I also considered the RRS MH-02 because of the "Clamp can be positioned in any one of four indexed stops without tools" feature. I eventually decided to go with the bare MH-01 and use the RRS clamp that I already owned. Also wanted to cut some cost.
The lever release clamp has never given me any reason for doubt. I do use lighter weight equipment than some others though. They are claimed to be self adjusting and I sort of assumed there is a stack of spring washers keeping tension on the cam portion of the lever as it toggles into the locked position. They do strongly advise using a plate from the same manufacturer. I have and like their "Pro" screw clamp as well.
As far as the end play on the hinge, they have a reasonable return policy anyway. I mentioned it only because it is something of which I would have wanted to be made aware. Would be interested to know if mine is an anomaly, when you get a chance to examine one.
Thanks, Sam. I have the lever clamp on my A/S B1, and it's always maintained good purchase on my gear. OTOH, that's not quite the same as carrying that gear about on a monopod head, which could subject the gear to being suspended at less upward facing angles. The screw clamp would give me more peace of mind under such conditions. Considering the amount of time that I'd likely use the setup as a lens mount, I'm not going to need the speed of the tool-less re-indexing feature of the high end lever clamp. It will be setup as a body mount 99%, or more, of the time.
I will check for any undue play when I get a chance, and let you know. I done so much reading about these clamps that things are becoming a blur. For instance, it seems to me that I read where one should order rubber covers for the locking knob because the bare knob van be hard on fingers. But now I can't remember which head they were talking about, or for sure who said it. I think it was Thom Hogan, but I'm not betting the farm on that memory, and I don't recall seeing any rubber covers offered for knobs. :-\
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Some of my knobs have like thin rubber tyres with a fine pyramid style grip, others have metal only knobs with six lobes.
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Having a foot mounted heavy lens pointing straight down is a different matter entirely. When friction is the only thing holding the load, you want a mighty tight pinch. :)
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Having a foot mounted heavy lens pointing straight down is a different matter entirely. When friction is the only thing holding the load, you want a mighty tight pinch. :)
Perzactly! ;D
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RRS is really bomb proof design and that goes for the monopod head as well, it just works ;)
However, most of their designs have plenty of room for modifications and areas where one could shave off material to save weight and bulk :)
It's about time the camera and lens designers adapt the arca swiss design and incorporate them directly into the cast camera body and lens feet, as it is now its archaic with all these Inch 1/4" 3/8" screw interconnections, ridiculous an a industrial world the current state of affairs - There is something rotten in the state of Denmark :o ::) 8)
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RRS is really bomb proof design and that goes for the monopod head as well, it just works ;)
However, most of their designs have plenty of room for modifications and areas where one could shave off material to save weight and bulk :)
It's about time the camera and lens designers adapt the arca swiss design and incorporate them directly into the cast camera body and lens feet, as it is now its archaic with all these Inch 1/4" 3/8" screw interconnections, ridiculous an a industrial world the current state of affairs - There is something rotten in the state of Denmark :o ::) 8)
Good observations, Erik!