NikonGear'23

Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Frank Fremerey on February 09, 2018, 20:22:03

Title: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Frank Fremerey on February 09, 2018, 20:22:03
http://info.meyer-optik-goerlitz.com/somnium_ii_presale
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on February 09, 2018, 20:45:28
Let's hope this is not vapourware :D

From the description it seems a Jakovian optic !!
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Jakov Minić on February 09, 2018, 20:52:19
It looks promising, Frank.
Looking forward to your results.

Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Frank Fremerey on February 09, 2018, 23:43:57
It looks promising, Frank.
Looking forward to your results.



In the summertime...
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Frank Fremerey on February 09, 2018, 23:44:43
Let's hope this is not vapourware :D

From the description it seems a Jakovian optic !!

I bought from them before. They make good products but sometimes ship late
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: JKoerner007 on February 10, 2018, 00:58:46
http://info.meyer-optik-goerlitz.com/somnium_ii_presale

I expect a full review ... photos, MTC, 6000 words minimum ... all for free of course :D
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Frank Fremerey on February 10, 2018, 07:19:06
I expect a full review ... photos, MTC, 6000 words minimum ... all for free of course :D

They say shipping in August 18. As I know them a bit already fall time seems more realistic. They seem to focus more on quality than sticking to time tables....
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Frank Fremerey on February 10, 2018, 07:21:17
PS. I immediately fell in love with the rendering. 1000 instead of 2000 did help...
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Erik Lund on February 10, 2018, 10:27:32
Looks like a real old school rendering  ;D
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Fons Baerken on February 10, 2018, 10:30:07
May think a 85mm f/1.8 H or K, will get ye similar results.
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: MFloyd on February 10, 2018, 11:22:59
Nearly all Meyer Optic projects were financed through crowd funding. They receive very bad comments from Kickstarter funders https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/meyeroptik/awaken-the-legendary-soap-bubble-bokeh-trioplan-f2/comments which, apparently, made them move to IndiGoGo. So I would be very cautious ...

Link to IndiGoGo: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/return-the-lost-treasure-create-the-p-75-ii-f1-9-camera-photography#/
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: gryphon1911 on February 10, 2018, 14:01:26
I've backed my fair share of Kickstarter campaigns.  I have noticed that there are quite a few vocal people there that back projects and then have unrealistic expectations, then go absolutely nuts in the comments.

So far, every project I've backed has delivered.  I'm still waiting on 2 to finish up, should have cameras from them sometime late spring/early summer.
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: MFloyd on February 10, 2018, 15:06:02
I've backed my fair share of Kickstarter campaigns.  I have noticed that there are quite a few vocal people there that back projects and then have unrealistic expectations, then go absolutely nuts in the comments.

So far, every project I've backed has delivered.  I'm still waiting on 2 to finish up, should have cameras from them sometime late spring/early summer.

So I did and these all finished to my entire satisfaction.  One question remains: how can you do crowdfunding by tapping different platforms ?
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: pluton on February 10, 2018, 19:26:43
May think a 85mm f/1.8 H or K, will get ye similar results.
The Russian 85/1.5 Helios produces extremely similar results, bokeh-wise.  The ergos look odd...the focusing ring appears flush with the lens barrel.
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Jakov Minić on February 10, 2018, 23:23:33
The Russian 85/1.5 Helios produces extremely similar results, bokeh-wise.  The ergos look odd...the focusing ring appears flush with the lens barrel.
Yes, I am a proud owner of the 85/1.5 Helios (Zenit).
It costs about 200$ and the results are very similar.

Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Erik Lund on February 11, 2018, 10:06:00
He he, nice one Jakov! Very graphic appealing - somehow the image just vibrates :)
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Frank Fremerey on February 11, 2018, 17:07:57
Yes, I am a proud owner of the 85/1.5 Helios (Zenit).
It costs about 200$ and the results are very similar.

Looks like being take through buble glass!!!
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Frank Fremerey on October 04, 2018, 14:35:47
Looks like a real old school rendering  ;D

currently there is a delay in delivery and also a delay in reimbursement. I got a message that basically says the founder and manager has had a severe accident and the cannot even say how project management is to deal with reimbursements or withg finishing projects they have begun. The say customers should wait until end of October for further notice.
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Toby on October 05, 2018, 17:40:40
I funded the Nocturnus and am not expecting to see either the lens or my money.
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: MFloyd on October 05, 2018, 21:04:20
Net SE, the holding company behind Meyer Optik Görlitz, and other filed for bankruptcy. I guess that all the cash raised through crowdfunding burned in the car crash of its founder, Stefan Immes ...

https://petapixel.com/2018/08/10/the-company-behind-hit-lens-revivals-on-kickstarter-is-on-life-support/

Last annual accounts date from September 2016:

http://www.netag.de/investor-relations/berichte-und-downloads/

Forget it. BTW, impossible to order something: the shopping card doesn’t work (anymore).

(https://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2018/08/netsebankruptcyfeat.jpg)

I also quote following comments:

“Globell B.V., net SE’s main operational subsidiary (it’s a software editor and distributor, net SE’s original business), renamed ColorTec B.V. as of 24 October 2017, was declared insolvent as of 7 November 2017 and liquidated and dissolved as of 29 May 2018, some two months before Dr Immes’s alleged ‚traffic accident‘.
https://www.crediteurenlijst.nl/nl/Insolvencies/Details/5245
https://drimble.nl/bedrijf/venlo/16451244/globell-bv.html
This could have been the main cash drain, temporarily ‚patched‘ by the lens crowdfunding projects.”
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Frank Fremerey on October 05, 2018, 22:39:31
fraud???

seems so. Then there is something to do about it.
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: MFloyd on October 05, 2018, 23:20:36
fraud???

seems so. Then there is something to do about it.

You might look into the possible liabilities of the crowdfunding platform, as there is probably more to grab than with netSE or it subsidiaries.

“Financial Crime: Recently issued by The Securities and Exchange Commission, Title III of the Jumpstart of Business Startups (JOBS) Act has established new regulations for crowdfunding platforms. In sum, crowdfunding platforms must exercise due diligence, monitor transactions, and implement anti-fraud measures on all businesses seeking to advertise for and receive funding through their website. Essentially, a crowdfunding platform can be exposed to risk in the event of any sort of financial crime.”
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Frank Fremerey on October 05, 2018, 23:48:59
SE is a 1€-GmbH
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: MFloyd on October 05, 2018, 23:53:42
You should also look into this https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/accountability-on-kickstarter?lang=en

I don’t want to discourage you, but there is little chance that you recover your funds or the item ordered. Unless fraud is proven, it’s a normal business risk. And even with the former, difficult to recover funds where there are none.  :-[
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Frank Fremerey on October 06, 2018, 09:02:58
"Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?

Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill"
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Toby on October 06, 2018, 15:39:27
Frank keep us posted on this please.
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Frank Fremerey on October 06, 2018, 16:14:16
Frank keep us posted on this please.

My hope is small.

Yet: In the case of fraud the people responsible in the fraudulent company are personally responsible and liable with their private assets.
Currently we have a case of "insolvency" and an attorney specialized on these cases has taken over the responsiblity. You can compare this to "Chapter 11" in the USA.

ONE possible outcome it that the company is bankrupt, meaning that the dept cannot be served by assets and income in the forseeable future.

ANOTHER possible outcome is restructuring and size reduction and continued production.

In case of "insolvency" the workers still come to work and work what is possible with the materials, rooms and other ressources left to them, which might well be all. The wages are partly paid by the social insurance to alleviate the burdon on the insolvent company a little.

In case of "bankruptcy" all assets are converted into money and the dept is paid following some complicated regulation. After that the company is gone, although brand names can be sellable assets, so: even if the company is gone the brand names and products can live on in other companies. Also the workers are not gone, they might even keep to work on similar projects under new ownership. In that case the probability that the new company will cater to the contracts of the old company is small though.

SO: keep you fingers crossed.
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Frank Fremerey on October 25, 2018, 13:57:11
now I have written word from the insolvency administrator's office. I need a lawyer to check what to do.
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Kenneth Rich on October 25, 2018, 17:15:53
Did you use PayPal?
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Frank Fremerey on October 25, 2018, 19:17:48
Did you use PayPal?

yes. does that help me?
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Macro_Cosmos on October 26, 2018, 12:14:22
yes. does that help me?
Paypal entitles you to refunds within 180 days of purchase (very insane imo). So you can potentially abuse this and let them (paypal) refund the money.

Call the company up and get it sorted.
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Frank Fremerey on October 26, 2018, 12:21:53
I sent 949US$ on 9 Feb and 180.31$ on 14 Feb through Paypal. Both are more than 180 days ago
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Macro_Cosmos on October 26, 2018, 12:34:10
I sent 949US$ on 9 Feb and 180.31$ on 14 Feb through Paypal. Both are more than 180 days ago

Hmmm, I don't know the specifics but there still is hope.
Since it's kickstarter, it might be different. The 180 days is when you have received the item I think, and you didn't.

Regardless, it's a good idea to call them up. They almost always side with the buyer.
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Frank Fremerey on October 26, 2018, 16:38:47
OK. I will try.
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: MFloyd on December 13, 2018, 00:56:15
Meyer Optik Görlitz nach Insolvenz wiederbelebt durch OPC Optics
OPC Optics erwirbt Markenrechte an Meyer Optik Görlitz nach Insolvenz der Koblenzer net SE
Einstieg für OPC Optics in den Endverbrauchermarkt
Marke soll schnellstmöglich wieder mit Leben gefüllt werden
Produktion & Produkte werden optimiert, sowie das Portfolio verschlankt
Verkauf über klassischen Vertrieb – kein Crowdfunding, keine Vorverkäufe
Übernahme von net SE Altlasten sind leider nicht mözglich

Bad Kreuznach, 12. Dezember 2018 – OPC Optical Precision Components Europe GmbH mit Sitz in Bad Kreuznach erwirbt die Markenrechte an Meyer Optik Görlitz von der insolventen net SE bzw. der SEMI Verwaltung GmbH. Der Spezialist für asphärische und sphärische Glaslinsen erschließt für sich, mit der Übernahme von Meyer Optik Görlitz, nun auch den Endverbrauchermarkt. Mit Hilfe des eigenen technologischen Knowhows und Synergien im Bereich der Objektivfertigung, sollen vorhandene Produkte optimiert, Produktionsabläufe professionalisiert und weitere Produkte entwickelt werden. Nach dem unerfreulichen und an einigen Stellen unrühmlichen Untergang der net SE, durch den Meyer Optik bereits als verloren galt, bedeutet diese Entwicklung für die weltweit vielen Meyer Optik Fans eine Fortsetzung der beliebten Objektivserien – wie z.B. Trioplan.

„Es war bedauerlich mit anzusehen wie Meyer Optik Görlitz, nach dem erfolgreichen Neustart im Jahr 2014, durch Qualitätsschwankungen, die vielen, teilweise parallelen Crowdfunding-Projekte über diverse Plattformen, Vorverkäufe unveröffentlichter Objektive über die eigene Internetseite und andauernde Lieferverzögerungen, immer mehr Reputation am Markt verloren hat. Nichts desto trotz sehen wir für uns nun die Chance, eine deutsche Traditionsmarke der Fotografie professionell und erfolgreich zu etablieren“, sagt Timo Heinze, Geschäftsführer OPC Optics. „Dazu werden wir einen definitiv anderen, eher konservativen, Ansatz verfolgen und keinerlei Crowdfunding betreiben oder Vorverkäufe von Produkten anbieten. Man muss sich als Hersteller einfach die Zeit nehmen eine solche Marke wachsen zu lassen, sodass die eigenen Kapazitäten entsprechend mitwachsen können und eine gleichbleibend hohe Qualität sichergestellt werden kann.“

Optimierung des Vorhandenen und Änderungen der Produktion

Das bisherige Portfolio der Meyer Optik umfasste zuletzt ca. 12 Objektivserien. Dieses, für einen Nischenhersteller, recht große Portfolio wird analysiert und entsprechend verschlankt. Es ist davon auszugehen, dass beliebte Modellreihen wie das Trioplan 100 oder das P58 (Typ Primoplan) fortgesetzt werden. Ob die von der net SE lediglich angekündigten Objektive wie das APO-Plasmat 105 oder das Nocturnus DSLR jemals umgesetzt werden ist derzeit unklar. Als Spezialist für hochpräzise asphärische und sphärische Linsen wird OPC Optics, aber auch die als gesetzt geltenden Objektivmodelle untersuchen und weiterentwickeln.

„Durch unsere eigene technische Expertise ist die Weiterentwicklung ein naheliegender Schritt und absolut logisch. Zunächst werden wir eine Ist-Analyse der vorhandenen Konstruktionen und Designs durchführen. Dank absoluter Highend Mess- & Fertigungstechniken sind wir dann in der Lage die zum Einsatz kommenden Linsen mit absoluter Präzision zu produzieren und so die optische Performance zu verbessern. Die Fertigung der mechanischen Bauteile und der Zusammenbau der Objektive werden weiterhin in Deutschland bleiben, um eine bestmögliche Qualität sicherzustellen“, erklärt Heinze.

Klassischer Vertrieb – Kein Crowdfunding, keine Vorverkäufe

Im Gegensatz zum bisherigen und nun insolventen Anbieter der Meyer Optik Objektive, wird OPC Optics mit Meyer Optik eine klassische Vermarktung anstreben. Weder Crowdfunding noch Vorverkäufe unveröffentlichter Produkte werden zum Geschäftsmodell gehören. OPC Optics setzt zukünftig auf den eigenen Direktvertrieb, sowie auf den stationären Fotohandel. Auf diesem Wege beabsichtigt OPC Optics einen reibungslosen und vor Allem transparenten Austausch mit seinen Kunden.

Übernahme der net SE Altlasten leider nicht möglich

Die Übernahme durch OPC Optics beinhaltet alle Markenrechte an Meyer Optik Görlitz und den dazugehörigen Produkten. Offene Forderungen von Kunden und Lieferanten gegenüber der net SE verbleiben bei der net SE. Somit müssten sich Kreditoren bezüglich dieser Angelegenheiten an den Verwalter der net SE wenden. OPC Optics, als Lieferant hochpräziser Asphären, gehört selbst zu den Lieferanten der net SE die noch offene Forderungen an eben diese haben.

OPC Optics prüft im Zuge der Neuausrichtung der Marke, ob für Kunden der net SE, die ein Objektiv bezahlt und nicht erhalten haben, Preisnachlässe auf den Neuerwerb eines verfügbaren Objektives realisierbar sind. Auf Anfrage würden Kunden dann ein individuelles Angebot erhalten. Wann bzw. ob ein solches Modell angeboten werden kann, steht momentan noch nicht fest.

Über Meyer Optik Görlitz:

Als deutscher Hersteller hochwertiger Objektive blickt Meyer-Optik-Görlitz auf eine lange Historie zurück. Gegründet im Jahre 1896 besteht Meyer-Optik-Görlitz, mit wenigen Unterbrechungen, seit nun ungefähr 120 Jahren. Dank des kreativen Spielraumes, den die Objektive aus dem Hause Meyer-Optik-Görlitz ermöglichen, erfreut sich die Marke – heute wie damals – an weltweit großer Beliebtheit.

Über OPC Optics:

OPC Optics ist ein im Jahre 2016 gegründetes Unternehmen mit Sitz in Bad Kreuznach. Neben technischer Beratung bei Projekten und Auftragsmessungen optischer Komponenten, ist OPC Optics vor allem als Spezialist für hochpräzise asphärische und sphärische Linsen, sowie Doppel-Asphären, Achromaten und Baugruppen bekannt und darf unter anderem Firmen aus den Bereichen Fotografie, Medizintechnik, Automotive und Lasertechnik zu seinen Kunden zählen. Mit seinem Highend-Maschinenpark setzt OPC Optics auf bestmögliche Qualität und Präzision bei der Fertigung von Glaslinsen. Dank vollständiger Dokumentation von der Glasschmelze, über die Verarbeitung des Rohglases, bis hin zur fertigen Linse, vertrauen Kunden aus aller Welt auf OPC Optics.


But no or little chance for seedfunders to recover their money.
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Frank Fremerey on December 13, 2018, 08:43:37
I send the letter to the insolvency attorneys.

I guess we see cases of "Eingehungsbetrug" with net se. Following text on the web of people who have been working for Meyer Optik, they sold lenses they did not even bother to develop. They used the money to fund other projects. If that is the case we see "Insolvenzbetrug" at work  meaning the owners liability would extend into their private funds.
Title: Re: I just bought this lens for half price (ships August 2018)
Post by: Pistnbroke on December 26, 2018, 13:00:21
Half Price ??   I just bought a 24-84 VR for £50 with a mark "under the front element"..turned out to be between the two front elements and inaccessible .
Also had fungus.  Cleaned out the fungus (no etching) got a £20 refund .  A bit better than half price.