NikonGear'23

Gear Talk => What the Nerds Do => Topic started by: Erik Lund on September 26, 2017, 08:29:19

Title: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Erik Lund on September 26, 2017, 08:29:19
I have given in to chipping the 55mm f/1.2 with a Dandelion CPU,,, There are not much room for the block but fortunately the light baffle is integrated with the F-Mount so gives an opportunity to use it as an fixation base for a cut down Dandelion block.


There will need to be cut into the rear lens element similar to the cut for the aperture lever, so not into the image circle, out of focus Bokeh highlights will be unaffected ;)


Here shot of work in progress on the 55mm f/1,2


Will try and fix Bjørns broken 50mm f/1.2 in a similar fashion since it hopefully will be stronger than the first attempt at cutting up the Dandelion for these super fast lenses,,,
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on September 26, 2017, 09:02:27
You are indeed a brave man, Erik !! Kudos also to Chris for being willing to sacrifice his lens ...

There is even hope for a chipped future for my broken 50/1.2 - better and better.
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: chris dees on September 26, 2017, 09:39:30
 nah.... not sacrifizing. I have more than enough faith in Erik's craftmanship. ;D

Looking very good!
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: richardHaw on September 26, 2017, 10:08:10
 :o :o :o
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 26, 2017, 11:11:45
We wait in awe, but I am sure there will be enough cooling liquid to make it work ... 8)
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: rosko on September 26, 2017, 12:56:50

Clean and net job, as usual... :D

Bravo, Erik !

Looking forward a next Get together : my 55mm f/1.2 is patiently waiting for such a surgery ! :P

My micro nikkor 105mm f/4, Voigländer 90mm, 300mm f/4,5 you chipped with Björn are still working like breeze... :)

We wait in awe, but I am sure there will be enough cooling liquid to make it work ... 8)

Indeed ! :)
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Erik Lund on September 27, 2017, 11:43:50
Thanks for the encouragements! Unfortunately the first Dandelion died at some point due to too heavy modification and or handeling etc. trying to fit it in the almost none existing space,,,


I have plenty more so I'll continue, I now know a little more about where I can shave off excess material on the Dandelion block, and where I need to back off,,,


The rear of the last lens group is now just clearing the rear of the Dandelion,,,


No images - Sorry - I was too pressed for time to finish other project before the trip to The Hague ;)
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Erik Lund on December 05, 2017, 09:33:58
Been on and off this little gem with the Dremel/Proxxon for some time now, so i'm excited to report that it now works as intended  ;D


The Dandelion is trimmed down, in the appropriate areas as well as the F-Mount, The Dandelion is seated within the 'light-baffle' part of the mount itself - Nicely held in place and well protected.


The rear elements and the mount differ from the 50mm 1.2 Ais in all ways and shapes, but I'll take the same approach when reinstalling a new Dandelion in Bjørns Lens ;)
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on December 05, 2017, 12:47:22
You did it again. Hadn't it been you I wouldn't have believed this was possible.

My hopes for my 50/1.2 are growing.
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Fons Baerken on December 05, 2017, 12:53:52
Great!
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: chris dees on December 05, 2017, 13:19:36
Indeed great.
I'm looking forward to put it on my Df. It will be a great combination. :D
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Erik Lund on January 15, 2018, 22:47:29
Had to replace the Dandelion again twice, one just died and one had sticky pins,,, long story short, it’s working now ;)


Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Erik Lund on May 07, 2018, 11:57:34
You did it again. Hadn't it been you I wouldn't have believed this was possible.

My hopes for my 50/1.2 are growing.


Returning to inserting a new Dandelion into your 50mm 1.2 Ais turned out to be a wark in the park, cleaned up the mount cut the slit for the Dandelion to be seated in and a bit of two component glue to make it stay there. Worked in first try :)


Only the programming of the Dandelions is still an mental torture,,,


Anyway, it's ready and waiting for you to drop by and pick it up ;)
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Birna Rørslett on May 08, 2018, 00:58:37
Super. Will do.

See you next Saturday :D
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Pistnbroke on September 16, 2018, 09:50:52
I would be interested to see a drawing of where you can and cannot cut into the dandelion block …….
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Seapy on September 16, 2018, 11:06:22

Only the programming of the Dandelions is still an mental torture,,,

I admit I have little knowledge of what programming is involved, but is it not possible to pre-prepare, indeed perhaps have a library of different programs for different lenses and flash the pre-prepared code across to the chip?
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Erik Lund on September 16, 2018, 20:35:41
I would be interested to see a drawing of where you can and cannot cut into the dandelion block …….
Yes, what I found out is that the Dandelions are not equal size, they differ in height especially, along the lens axis.You can trim the ends, you can trim the back curve and round off the corners.Then you can trim off more or less all martial between the pins, but hen you need to replace it with epoxy gule.
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Erik Lund on September 16, 2018, 20:37:28
I admit I have little knowledge of what programming is involved, but is it not possible to pre-prepare, indeed perhaps have a library of different programs for different lenses and flash the pre-prepared code across to the chip?
All the Dandelions are pre-programmed to 45m f/2.8 i believe,,,
They are not designed like B's CPU's,,,So my guess would be no,,,
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Seapy on September 16, 2018, 22:33:23
So my guess would be no,,,

 :(
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: acgiannopo on February 12, 2019, 14:58:47
Erik, i am interested in chipping a 50mm f/1,2 ai-s and a 85mm f/1,4 ai-s. Since Bjørn Rørslett's cpu chips aren't currently available and as i saw you used the dandelion ones, how much can you trim of the chip and still be usable and safe to install? 85mm has more space than the 50mm but still it's a challenging process. Thank you inadvance.
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Erik Lund on February 12, 2019, 15:29:02
My recommendation is to buy a handful of Dandelions and use the trial and error approach.


It's a few tenths of a millimeter you can remove from the rear, keeping the radius parallel front and rear, if you get too far the springs pop out, you stop just before that, when the plastic gets thin, feel it with a nail carefully.



The 50mm and 55mm 1.2 both needs trimming of the rear element all the way to the 'rear aperture' painted circle to clear, the rest you have to shave off the Dandelions rear, study the images. This is a great risk since you will be removing the aluminium that is holding the rear lens element in place.


Good luck, you will need it!



Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Erik Lund on April 13, 2023, 09:39:09
I just stumbled over this image in my folders; Dandelion decay,,,
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: golunvolo on April 13, 2023, 12:36:22
Oops, I have a couple of lenses with good chips installed by you but the 16mm 3.5 has a dandelion. Crossing my fingers
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: chris dees on April 13, 2023, 14:39:07
Mine is still working, but I don't use it everyday.
It's the only Dandelion chip I have, all others are "real" chips.
I could use a few regular chips though.  ;)
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Erik Lund on April 13, 2023, 14:51:31
Thank you for taking great care of it ;)
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Hugh_3170 on April 13, 2023, 15:19:18
Me too.  With the Ukraine situation, even finding Dandelions will be increasingly problematic.

................
I could use a few regular chips though.  ;)
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Thomas Stellwag on April 13, 2023, 15:26:50
what I´ve seen (without personal experience), Andrey Kuryanov is shipping from Slovenia and offers programming for you, if you give him the exact lens spec before ordering in ebay
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: mxbianco on April 24, 2023, 20:52:02
what I´ve seen (without personal experience), Andrey Kuryanov is shipping from Slovenia and offers programming for you, if you give him the exact lens spec before ordering in ebay

It was from Slovakia, not Slovenia, he lives just across the Slovak border. With the war, now it's difficult for him to cross the Ukraine-Slovakia border, so he ships from Ukraine (outside EU), and there's some customs fee, but he's very kind on the value declaration. I just happen to have bought 4 chips from him. It's true that he will do the programming for you, and you can always change your mind and reprogram the chip for another type of lens. Not a big deal, programming can be done from most digital Nikons, except D1-D1H-D1X and D2X-D2H. Haven't tried programming with a Nikon Z camera, fearing the FTZ adapter would kick in in an adverse fashion, if anyone is brave enough to try it, I'll stick to programming with a D600 or a D7000.

Ciao from Massimo
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Hugh_3170 on April 25, 2023, 03:01:44
Thank you Thomas & thank you Massimo.  Good to know.
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Snoogly on April 25, 2023, 09:53:08
I vaguely remember programming a dandelion with a Z and ZFC. I think it’s worth the risk.

My problems were sticking the buggers to a lens in such a way that it didn’t mangle the contacts.
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: mxbianco on April 25, 2023, 21:13:48
I vaguely remember programming a dandelion with a Z and ZFC. I think it’s worth the risk.

My problems were sticking the buggers to a lens in such a way that it didn’t mangle the contacts.

According to my notes, you have to check the diameter of the internal baffle of the lens you want to chip, if it's between 34.62 mm and 36.22 mm you can glue the chip without further work, if the diameter is above 36.22 mm you have to dremel out some metal (to reach the above range), if it's below 34.62 mm you have to add some shims, or the pins won't make contact. Probably the lens you were trying to chip was having a baffle diameter above 36.22 mm, and it was too tight on the contacts, eventually breaking them. A safe value is about 35.2-35.4 mm, about midway between the minimum and maximum diameters.

Ciao from Massimo


 
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: mxbianco on April 25, 2023, 21:32:58
Now that you mention it... It's not a bad idea to program the chip using a Nikon Z camera, in case you damage the contacts, you damage them on the cheaper FTZ adapter instead of a costly camera. I'll try the programming with the Viltrox NF-Z adapter which costs about half of an FTZ/FTZII (best price found: 114,44€, from Viltrox France) , so the risk is even lower (and you can have a good look at the contacts from the rear of the FTZ/NFZ) 

Ciao from Massimo
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Roland Vink on April 26, 2023, 03:21:13
I wonder if it would be possible to create an FTZ adapter (Nikon or third party) where you could dial in the lens focal length and aperture. Instead of adding a CPU to the lens, the adapter could tell the Z camera which lens is mounted. The drawback is that you would need to remember to reset the adapter each time you change lenses, but it would mean there is no need to add a CPU to every lens.
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: mxbianco on April 26, 2023, 09:20:07
I wonder if it would be possible to create an FTZ adapter (Nikon or third party) where you could dial in the lens focal length and aperture. Instead of adding a CPU to the lens, the adapter could tell the Z camera which lens is mounted. The drawback is that you would need to remember to reset the adapter each time you change lenses, but it would mean there is no need to add a CPU to every lens.
My dream FTZ adapter is one with an Ai feeler and an encoder passing the aperture to the Z body, and maybe a small screwdriver motor to allow AF for the AF-D lenses. No need to have a battery inside the FTZ, it could be powered from the camera's battery.

Unfortunately, the possible customer base is very small compared to mainstream customers, and Nikon probably will concentrate on other, more profitable projects. Maybe an independent developer...

Ciao from Massimo
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Erik Lund on April 26, 2023, 09:26:29
The first lens I chipped I used a CPU from an AF 35-70 mm f/3.3-4.5 and installed it in a Micro Nikkor 55mm f/3.5

I simply shorted the circuit at the 55mm zoom setting, that had an aperture setting equal to f/3.5  8) This was back in the F4 and F5 film camera days  :o

Yes one could make an focal length selection zoom ring on an adapter.

We have made, Birna's idea, a couple of switch operated solutions with several CPU's in an adapter and focus mounts, this is a simple way that could be done with multiple custom CPU's as well.
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: mxbianco on April 28, 2023, 15:38:07
I wonder if it would be possible to create an FTZ adapter (Nikon or third party) where you could dial in the lens focal length and aperture. Instead of adding a CPU to the lens, the adapter could tell the Z camera which lens is mounted. The drawback is that you would need to remember to reset the adapter each time you change lenses, but it would mean there is no need to add a CPU to every lens.

What you're thinking about just duplicates the Non-CPU Menu present in most  digital cameras except early and basic ones (not present in: D1, D1H, D1X, D70, D70s, D3xxx D5xxx D7xxx series), all Z series cameras have the NON-CPU menu, except the Z50. Haven't read the Z30 manual yet.

It does not solve the major problem  of the non-CPU menu: if you forget to change lens type, the EXIF will reflect previous lens data.
The addition of dandelion allows a series of benefits:

I think the benefits are worth the 30 extra €/$ you spend on each lens.

Problem still unsolved: you can only dial in a single value for a zoom lens. the EXIF will report that value as the focal length used (same as with the non-CPU menu). Not a big deal, but if you chip for example the 200-600mm/9.5 or the 50-300/4.5 there's a huge difference if you describe your lens as 50 and shoot at 300. I prefer NOT to chip my zoom lenses, and change the non-cpu type menu on the fly (dedicated button on Z bodies).

Ciao from Massimo
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Birna Rørslett on April 28, 2023, 16:32:29
Z30 and Z fc both have the non-CPU menu
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: mxbianco on April 28, 2023, 18:19:13
Z30 and Z fc both have the non-CPU menu

I had just read the Z30 manual (have the Zfc and it's the most obvious one having the non-CPU menu, being a DX "clone" of  the Df), so the only one CPU-menu-less camera is the Z50.

For me it was a simple choice between Zfc and Z50, with all the non-CPU lenses I have (above 100, after I chipped another 20), the obvious choice was the Zfc 8)

BTW, the Viltrox NF-Z adapter has arrived, it has a USB-C connector for reprogramming the firmware, and a black velvet lining of the inner tube, weighs only 10g more than the FTZ. (114,44€ vs about 300€). I tried programming with my Z7, and the 1"-6"-1" sequence lets the attached dandelion lens enter programming mode. Voilà!

AF works on the 8-15 fisheye-Nikkor, I'm certain it will AF on all my other lenses. Will have to try it on Sigma Art 24/1.4, it wouldn't AF on my D810, it did on D600 and D7000 (but I haven't tried upgrading the Sigma firmware on its programming docking base) . Another nerdy task!


Ciao from Massimo
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: mxbianco on April 30, 2023, 17:12:03
Good news, I tried the Sigma Art 24/1.4 with FTZ and NF-Z, and I got the following results:

With original FTZ (latest firmware upgrade, v.1.10): does NOT AF (a clear sign that Nikon couldn't care less about compatibility with competitors' lenses :(   )
With NF-Z: it DOES AF, and is perfectly compatible.

Please note that the reported firmware is the same (v.1.10), both for FTZ and NF-Z, but the Viltrox works and Nikon doesn't.

Food for thought...

Ciao from Massimo
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Snoogly on April 30, 2023, 23:04:45
Strange. I am ordering some chips right now, and just got this, after I said I would program using z6 and FTZ.

Has this always been the case?

I still have a D750 though :)
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: mxbianco on May 01, 2023, 09:37:47
Strange. I am ordering some chips right now, and just got this, after I said I would program using z6 and FTZ.

Has this always been the case?

I still have a D750 though :)

Good that he mentioned this, I didn't know!

The focus trapping feature is a toggle, and depending on the camera you're going to use your lens, you can enable it or disable it.
Andrey recommends to disable it for Z cameras, and he knows better.
What you'll receive is a chip programmed with the following:
2.8 maximum aperture
45mm focal length
focus trapping disabled
Optimal focus point on position 9
22 minimum aperture

So, if for example you want to enable focus trapping (starting fom the DISABLED status), you'll do the following:
Set your camera to manual exposure mode, 1/3 stop increments, and MF, and shooting always enabled (even in the absence of a memory card, even if out-of-focus)
Turn on the camera. Shoot @ 1", dial 6" and shoot again, dial 1" and shoot again.
After these three shots, on your top LCD display you'll see the f-stop indicator cycling (starting at 2.8, 4.5, 5.6, 10, 20, 40, 60, 90). You have successfully entered programming mode!
If you do nothing, after three entire cycles  through the above f-stops, the display stops cycling, and you've exited programming mode (having done nothing!)
For toggling the focus trapping, you have to wait until you see 5.6 on the top LCD, and shoot a 1" exposure. Focus block changes state (from disabled to enabled). Turn off camera before changing anything else.

If you don't remember the status of your camera, you can restore it to factory default, by the following sequence:
1"-6"-1" sequence
Wait until 90 is displayed (= RESET TO FACTORY DEFAULT)
Shoot a 1" exposure
Now the chip is reset to 45mm/2.8-22, focus trapping disabled, optimal focus on position 9. Turn off camera to consolidate.

You can do it as many times as you want

This small explanation does not go into detail of the other programming steps (max aperture, ...), but you'll receive complete instructions, so I don't want to duplicate Andrey's efforts...

Hope it's clear enough, Ciao from Massimo
 
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Snoogly on May 01, 2023, 09:45:52
You are a guru!

He did offer the option of focus trapping on or off, for Z, but I said no as I had no idea what it means.
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: mxbianco on May 01, 2023, 09:49:09
Another observation:

After trying Dande programming on Z cameraz, I find that the top display has smallish figures compared to D-series top display. I think my future Dandelion programming will be with a D-series Nikon (better view of what you're doing!), or using the Z's rear display (pressing the DSP switch until all shooting parameters are displayed), not the Z's top display (TOO SMALL)

Ciao from Massimo
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: Erik Lund on May 02, 2023, 10:00:24
...

If you don't remember the status of your camera Dandelion chipped lens, you can restore it to factory default, by the following sequence:
1"-6"-1" sequence
Wait until 90 is displayed (= RESET TO FACTORY DEFAULT)
Shoot a 1" exposure
Now the chip is reset to 45mm/2.8-22, focus trapping disabled, optimal focus on position 9. Turn off camera to consolidate.
...
Hi, thank you for the update on Dandelion programming! I believe you meant Lens, not camera?
Title: Re: Chipping 55mm f/1.2 Dandelion
Post by: mxbianco on May 09, 2023, 10:11:14
Hi, thank you for the update on Dandelion programming! I believe you meant Lens, not camera?
Yes, remove the word camera altogether!

I tried the Viltrox on Sigma 35/1.4, perfect AF, nogo on original FTZ

Ciao from Massimo