NikonGear'23

Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: Arild on August 08, 2017, 22:05:07

Title: D750 and metering
Post by: Arild on August 08, 2017, 22:05:07
Do you use Center weigh or Matrix??
On my nikon d750

What is most similar to F3 ?
I shot with F3HP for 14 yrs, from 1984--1998

Why do I feel center weigh is most plesant /correct for me??

Please feel  free to say somthing nice about the photo. Taken today, Aug 8 2017
Title: Re: D750 and metering
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on August 08, 2017, 22:25:29
Nice bog with Narthecium ossifragum .... Seems well enough exposed on my monitor although sky is a tad pale.

Centre-weighted metering works pretty well on the modern Nikons. Matirx metering might d o a tad better, but usually it is required to add a small correction to the "zero" point (I tend to set my cameras to -1/6 EV. NB: this adjustment will not show up anywhere in the EXIF later, only accessible through the Custom Menu setting).
Title: Re: D750 and metering
Post by: pluton on August 09, 2017, 04:11:14
The 12% center weight *should* mimic the F3 meter, at least on paper.  I prefer full average metering, but most apparently do not.
Title: Re: D750 and metering
Post by: MFloyd on August 09, 2017, 04:23:38
Picture looks well exposed. For my type of photography (action / sport) center weighting seems to work out the best. As a more general comment, picture seems to be taken with the lens slightly tilted backwards (to the sky); may be you should consider some perspective correction.  A lot of chromatic aberration in the left upper corner.  😉
Title: Re: D750 and metering
Post by: David H. Hartman on August 09, 2017, 04:52:32
In days of old I metered Tri-X and Super-XX with a Pentax Digital Spotmeter with total confidence. I was never as confident about center-weighted with Kodachrome but when I bracketed the normal exposure was frequently the best. My biggest failing was looking at a scene thinking the range was too long. Taking the photo anyway and tossing it in the trash when it came back from Kodak. If only life was as easy as shooting B&W. I didn't take jobs that required transparencies for one of events. I like to think this was more about knowing my limits than cowardice.

I've been shooting Matrix with my D800 and D300s and wondering if I wouldn't do better with center-weighted. I'm a slave to the histogram and the blinkies and don't like it. I've thought of giving the Pentax Digital Spotmeter a spin.

I'm going to say center-weighted with a modern dSLR is more like center-weighted with a Nikon F3. I think that's a no brainier and I have ... well never mind.

Dave Hartman
Title: Re: D750 and metering
Post by: Akira on August 09, 2017, 05:02:38
Hi, Arild, I think this is my first time to respond your post.  So, welcome to NG!

I hadn't used center weighted metering mode in my D750, but I felt that the matrix mode had a tendency to overexpose the highlight.  The amount of overexposure varied according to the size and possibly the amount of the brightness of the highlight area.  So, there was no fixed value for the exposure compensation to work universally.

I used use and loved F3 with its center-weighted meter whose concentration was stronger (with 80%) than the normal center-weighted meter (60%).  So, you may need to look for the response of the meter closest to that of F3 by adjusting the size of the metering area in the custom setting menu.
Title: Re: D750 and metering
Post by: richardHaw on August 09, 2017, 05:07:07
i prefer center-weighted to be frank. matrix usually underexpose a bit more to my taste. by .3 stops  :o :o :o
Title: Re: D750 and metering
Post by: David H. Hartman on August 09, 2017, 05:57:46
Why do I feel center weigh is most plesant /correct for me??

If you shot center-weighted for years and got the results you wanted. If you felt confident with center-weighted then you owe it to yourself to try center-weighted with your D750. Maybe center-weighted works better for you than Matrix.

Dave
Title: Re: D750 and metering
Post by: Arild on August 09, 2017, 17:05:56
This is shot some four hours later in the afternoon.
F750 on center weight and 24-120 my ever best favorite lens (Despite its small....shortcomings...) besides the best lens ever made for my use, the 105 micro.

I am a bit uncertain -- did I overdo the red tint on this cottage?
Looking at my Instagram photo, the color was a bit dull grey red but that might well be the smartphone camera flaw.

I often feel this fancy new camera is wayy over my head, giving me too many choices.

But then, when images like these, that yellow bog and this cottage and that orchid -------- I LOVE this camera.
never got such photos on Kodachrome 64 back in the 80ies with my F3HP !

Alas -- I had only one lens back then -- the 55 micro -- remember that one?

So, any input regarding mastering this lovely, magically digital image machinery from Nikon,'
will be properly noted in my diary and put to good use in the field.
Title: Re: D750 and metering
Post by: David H. Hartman on August 09, 2017, 18:06:06
A photograph is only a representation of reality. "A photograph never lies." is only a half truth. If you want the photograph to be a "straight" photograph then you do your best to make it look as it did to you when you were standing there. To do that you use memory and experience.

Traditionally a straight photograph might be quite enhanced. Ansel Adams photographs were a representation of what he saw but also of what he felt. Monolith the Face of Half Dome with the use of a deep red filter was intended to convey the grandeur he felt as he stood there. If memory serves me he made one exposure with a yellow filter and realizing it would not covey what he felt he made another with a deep red filter which made the sky darker than reality.

Since we can't really compare the LCD image in sunlight to the scene before us we use our memory to make the image reflect what we saw or perhaps heighten it some with LCH (lightness, chroma and hue) or curves or whatever we use. Even if the photograph is unchanged from the camera as a SOOC (straight out of camera) these things are changed as a photograph to look natural to us on a 2D method of display. The shadows and highlights are compress to give natural looking mid tone contrast. The camera, the film, whatever method we use, this has always been the case.

Make the subject look to the best or your abilities like what you saw or what you felt or process it as you like. This is not forensic photography. Process it or let the camera process it as you will.

Best,

Dave Hartman
Title: Re: D750 and metering
Post by: OCD on August 09, 2017, 18:29:03
David:  Amen!
Title: Re: D750 and metering
Post by: CS on August 09, 2017, 18:46:27

I am a bit uncertain -- did I overdo the red tint on this cottage?
Looking at my Instagram photo, the color was a bit dull grey red but that might well be the smartphone camera flaw.

First, that question assumes that anyone viewing the image is doing so on a calibrated display, and I would not make that assumption. Color management is decidedly non-trivial, and you only have control of it on your end.

Second, what was your intention WRT presenting the image? Photographers are like painters, they can take artistic license to show whatever please them. There is no rule that the color has to be 100% authentic when it comes to the hue of that red, unless that was your intention.
Title: Re: D750 and metering
Post by: Arild on August 09, 2017, 19:19:59
 Thank you !
Title: Re: D750 and metering
Post by: Peter Connan on August 10, 2017, 20:38:07
Three lovely photos!

I have been using Matrix metering exclusively, primarily because very often I "focus and re-compose", and thus I feel the light-meter would be "pointing at the wrong place" if I used one of the more concentrated modes.

But, a while ago I adjusted the "zero point", as described by Bjorn, but to a much larger extent: 2/3rd stops. The reasons are that over-exposure cannot really be rescued, but with the D750 shadows can be lifted with relative impunity.

I have found that, as a result, my colours seem much richer, my photos less flat...
Title: Re: D750 and metering
Post by: Arild on August 11, 2017, 00:34:30
Thats custom menu b6 we are talking about?

What about b5 -- should I change to wider or smaller area?


Today, I realized something was missing;

The rubber eyecup -- is gone, lost somewhere in the mountain, and I have never removed it intentionally.

Thats why I cant bring along any small extra items like that flash cover gadget :-)

And thus I have to source eBay for a new one, is there any good 3d part or do I buy original Nikon?
Title: Re: D750 and metering
Post by: OCD on August 11, 2017, 03:19:28
hot shoe cover $6.99  https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00J2I9Q7E/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

b6 is where you can fine-tune the exposure settings.  I'm leaning toward a -1/6 for Matrix...maybe...haha.  The Rorslett Rules are usually solid.  (smile).



Title: Re: D750 and metering
Post by: OCD on August 11, 2017, 19:56:22
Interesting comment from Thom Hogan's D750 User guide:

D750 Guide 100
Before leaving the matrix metering, we need to discuss one other thing: brightness. One relatively common complaint that began with the launch of the D3 and D300 was that the new Nikon cameras “overexpose.” But if you look at some of the images these people are objecting to, they are not actually overexposed (i.e. the highlights aren’t blown out).

Nikon’s interpretation of mid-range brightness changed with the D3 in 2007. The Standard Picture Control has a default Brightness setting of 0. But this produces mid-range tonalities that are somewhat higher in value than the D2 series and other earlier Nikon DSLRs produced. Where a D2x might have placed a value at 122,122,122 the D750 models place that same value at something more like 128,128,128, which appears visually brighter. Meanwhile, highlight and shadow values didn’t change. Thus, to some this looked like “more exposure.” It isn’t. It’s just an adjustment curve. If you shoot NEF (raw) you’ll be able to override that. If you shoot JPEG, you’ll have to learn about the Picture Control settings to adjust this.

The reason for discussing this with the metering system is that you need to be careful to assess exposure separately from tonal placement when you’re trying to figure out the metering system. Picture Control settings are a little tricky, and interact with exposure settings in how mid-tones are visualized.

The matrix metering system in the D750 has a tendency to produce images that don’t strongly blow out any highlights, though this can sometimes make the image look a bit dull and underexposed. The simplest way to deal with such images is to change the linearity using a Curve in Photoshop. Another way is to alter the camera’s settings; in particular, you can use a Custom Curve or change in Brightness in your Picture Control  Yet another method is to use Active D-Lighting.

© 2016 Thom Hogan All Rights Reserved


I'm a JPEG shooter, so I typically use Active D-Lighting on Auto when using Matrix metering.  When using center-weighted or spot I turn off Active D-Lighting.  I'm of a mind to use exposure compensation rather than adjust the metering system using the b6 setting.  --OCD
Title: Re: D750 and metering
Post by: David H. Hartman on August 12, 2017, 06:45:40
Who here can rub there stomach and pat their head at the same time? How about use the AF-ON button, exposure lock and squeeze off shots all at the same time?

When I used center-weighted metering I always used the exposure lock with aperture Preferred. I don't think I can do that with AF-ON. This shouldn't be a problem with manual exposure and AF-ON. I'm thinking it over.

Dave who can't juggle two tennis balls
Title: Re: D750 and metering
Post by: Arild on August 12, 2017, 10:26:05
 I think I need an english summary for the last two posts. Something important is said, alas my brain cannot process all that info.
Title: Re: D750 and metering
Post by: chambeshi on August 12, 2017, 12:47:56
Who here can rub there stomach and pat their head at the same time? How about use the AF-ON button, exposure lock and squeeze off shots all at the same time?

When I used center-weighted metering I always used the exposure lock with aperture Preferred. I don't think I can do that with AF-ON. This shouldn't be a problem with manual exposure and AF-ON. I'm thinking it over.

Dave who can't juggle two tennis balls
my 6 pence worth - with AF-On enabling Back-Button focus set the Fn button [front bottom right] to AE Lock. Don't have a D750, it's under f1 on the D500 and dedicated to f4 on the Df.
I can work both on my Nikons, even though I reconciled decades back that i lacked the genomic payload to play a stringed instrument :-)
Title: Re: D750 and metering
Post by: charlie on August 12, 2017, 15:55:23
I can't comment on the D750, but with the D800 in matrix mode I find it puts far to much weight on the position of the single focus point/spot meter position in the view finder at the time the picture is taken. In your picture of the red house for example, had the focus point been in the shadow area of the house the image would have over exposed. Had it been on the sunlit front of the house it would have given a similar exposure to the picture posted.

That behavior is more like spot metering than it is judging the scene as a whole, which I was under the impression that is what matrix metering was useful for. I find center weighted metering does not have this issue and often provides more accurate results.
Title: Re: D750 and metering
Post by: CS on August 12, 2017, 17:01:30
So go out and shoot a some scenes with matrix and center weighted copies, then compare the results. You know they say a picture is worth a thousand words........
Title: Re: D750 and metering
Post by: OCD on August 12, 2017, 20:48:50
For AE-L:  configure the shutter button to lock exposure on a half-press.

I shoot center-weighted the same way.  AF-ON, shutter button half-press to lock exposure, recompose and shoot.  I also use easy exposure compensation so I can adjust exposure with the back command dial without having to press a button.  So...the only buttons you're pressing are AF-On and the Shutter Release.

: )

Title: Re: D750 and metering
Post by: Matthew Currie on August 13, 2017, 02:11:48
For AE-L:  configure the shutter button to lock exposure on a half-press.

I shoot center-weighted the same way.  AF-ON, shutter button half-press to lock exposure, recompose and shoot.  I also use easy exposure compensation so I can adjust exposure with the back command dial without having to press a button.  So...the only buttons you're pressing are AF-On and the Shutter Release.

: )

I do the same, with AE lock on the half pressed shutter.  Once you're used to it, it allows focus, metering and shooting to be separated with a minimum of total buttons. Other people prefer other buttons when they're available, but I got used to the shutter button on a D3200, where it was the only option, and prefer it now. 

Of course all these things are a matter of taste.  I, for example, rarely use center weighting and when matrix doesn't work I usually go to spot and hunt for a mid-tone target that may or may not even end up in the picture, rather than exposure compensation, in part because on the D7100 I find the ISO button too easy to get wrong, so I have mine set for "easy ISO" rather than "easy exposure comp."
Title: Re: D750 and metering
Post by: Jakov Minić on August 13, 2017, 02:56:37
I believe that it all depends on the circumstances and in what kind of light you are shooting.
Matrix is what I use most. Sometimes I swap to spot metering or I simply use exposure compensation in matrix mode to my liking.
No to mention the amount of stops you can gain in post processing...but of course you would want to get it right as much as possible from the camera.
Title: Re: D750 and metering
Post by: David H. Hartman on August 13, 2017, 03:51:29
I'd replace it with an original.