After all this time, all of this waiting and expectation, what do we get? We get an announcement announcing the development of the Nikon D850, with no details.
Personally, I am disappointed once again. We don't even get a timeline, price, or details, just the news that the D850 is the successor to the D810. Well, duh, we knew that, just not what the name would be! Talk about a "Nothing-Burger."
I am looking to see if the Sony A9R (when it arrives) will be what we are looking for, but I have to say, this Nikon announcement was one more little shock from a company I used to depend upon.
Hopefully more details will be forthcoming.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Roland Vink on July 25, 2017, 09:01:42
Patience Michael, I'm sure the new camera will impress. Better to wait a little longer for Nikon to get it right, than rush out a flawed product don't you think?
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Michael Erlewine on July 25, 2017, 09:06:27
Patience Michael, I'm sure the new camera will impress. Better to wait a little longer for Nikon to get it right, than rush out a flawed product don't you think?
well, I do think on occasion. I just feel that Nikon could do better than they have of late. Just my opinion. I will wait. I have no choice in the matter, or not much. Nothing else looks any better.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: chris dees on July 25, 2017, 09:47:57
It's more or less the same procedure as with Canon's 5DS/R Announcement of announcement, then after 2 months the real announcement and after again 2 months it hit the stores. So with a little luck before Christmas. :)
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Pistnbroke on July 25, 2017, 09:51:24
Well I cannot say I knew this would happen but about 2 months ago I bought another D810 for £1600. so they can bring out what they want when they want I aint buying.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Hugh_3170 on July 25, 2017, 10:24:15
For me, it will all depend on just how great the technological gains of the D850 are over the D810.
If the technological gains are huge, then it may make sense to go with the D850 at some point; however if the gains are only incremental, or if they don't beneficially impact the work that an individual photographer does, then it may be better to slip one full product cycle and run with the "D8XX" in 3 years time as a more cost/beneficial buying option.
Time will tell.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: David H. Hartman on July 25, 2017, 11:08:54
Come on Nikon! We have a date with an asteroid in 2030. After that those who survive will be shooting wet plates if they're lucky. We need the D850 before the sun comes up!
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: chambeshi on July 25, 2017, 11:50:50
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Erik Lund on July 25, 2017, 12:13:15
If your into time lapse the D850 is obvious upgrade looking at the video! Maybe stacking is possible looks like the video has a motor powered dolly motion.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Ethan on July 25, 2017, 12:14:27
OK. Got this one.
I will go now visit Nikon UK and meet with the GM to advise him that some people are disgruntled about the announcement and they better shape up and deliver on point.
Oh, I have a better suggestion, maybe they sign up all this whinging crowd as "ConSultants" a la Hassy Ming Thein "pay as you talk" job. What an utter disaster, Nikon announced a new body dvlpt instead of delivery!
Ohh, the infamy! How dare they?
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Erik Lund on July 25, 2017, 12:29:47
Moderation:
Ok let's keep to the topic of the camera and stop the clever jokes. Thanks.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: armando_m on July 25, 2017, 12:50:32
I personally prefer seeing direction from Nikon rather than rumors even if it has even less info than the rumors
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Akira on July 25, 2017, 13:26:26
32K time lapse may suggest the the reduced pixel count? :P
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on July 25, 2017, 13:59:39
32K time lapse may suggest the the reduced pixel count? :P
Remember that video has an aspect ratio closer to 2:1 than 3:2. Thus 8K time lapse would require somewhat higher resolution sensor, 40MP or 45MP depending on which 8K standard it follows.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Ron Scubadiver on July 25, 2017, 14:18:09
I am disappointed in that I was hoping for a product announcement with deliveries beginning in September. Nikon really hasn't told us anything.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Akira on July 25, 2017, 15:23:47
Remember that video has an aspect ratio closer to 2:1 than 3:2. Thus 8K time lapse would require somewhat higher resolution sensor, 40MP or 45MP depending on which 8K standard it follows.
Okay, if the 9:16 8k video (7680x4320=33177600) frame uses the full width of the sensor, the full pixel count should be roughly 40MP.
So, the sensor of D850 is not the same one as used in Sony A7RII? Or is the sensor cropped also horizontally for the 8k time lapse video?
I'd assume that sensor is a minimum of 7680 wide. Which would make height 5120. 39.3 megapixels. But I think you are correct that there is a possibility that it could be wider and cropped for 8k format. At least we know it will be >39Mpx.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: benveniste on July 25, 2017, 16:54:10
I am disappointed in that I was hoping for a product announcement with deliveries beginning in September. Nikon really hasn't told us anything.
On the contrary. It tells us that they didn't have their act together enough have anything ready to go for their 100th anniversary.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Ron Scubadiver on July 25, 2017, 17:20:45
Well, they did say it is a successor to the D810. It's high resolution, that's a given. It would have been nice if they told us how many MP. I wonder what they mean by high speed. Of course one would expect the frame rate to increase, but how fast is high speed. A likely release date would have been nice, but I suppose they have a lot of D810's in inventory which need to be cleared out.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: MFloyd on July 25, 2017, 17:39:28
On the contrary. It tells us that they didn't have their act together enough have anything ready to go for their 100th anniversary.
These type of statements are just no more than left guessing. Look at the previous main announcements (e.g. D5): not different.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: chambeshi on July 25, 2017, 17:53:36
Agreed :) WRT to the rumours before official announcement and then release of the D5.... One can only wait. And the D810 inventory will probably take months to clear - like the D4s
These type of statements are just no more than left guessing. Look at the previous main announcements (e.g. D5): not different.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on July 25, 2017, 18:09:28
Product development takes its own time and the launch is when everything is ready, not before or after. I don't see any reason to delay or hurry a launch of a major product to coincide with company 100 yr celebration.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Hugh_3170 on July 25, 2017, 18:34:31
Neither do I - much better to get the product fully ready for when it goes to market than to have subsequent recalls and the associated reputational damage and negative reactions from the customer base. Especially on what is to be a premium grade camera body.
Product development takes its own time and the launch is when everything is ready, not before or after. I don't see any reason to delay or hurry a launch of a major product to coincide with company 100 yr celebration.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: CS on July 25, 2017, 19:05:37
Neither do I - much better to get the product fully ready for when it goes to market than to have subsequent recalls and the associated reputational damage and negative reactions from the customer base. Especially on what is to be a premium grade camera body.
Well, they have had 100 years to get it ready. ;)
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: benveniste on July 25, 2017, 20:36:08
Product development takes its own time and the launch is when everything is ready, not before or after. I don't see any reason to delay or hurry a launch of a major product to coincide with company 100 yr celebration.
Those previous "non-annoucements" weren't connected with a major anniversary date. Nor, if I remember correctly, did they come with a splashy "Coming Soon" web page with zero details. Nor is it true that Nikon launches "when everything is ready," unless you think it's coincidence that so many Nikon announcements take place at major trade shows.
Yes, product development takes time. But marketing opportunities like a 100th anniversary don't come around very often. Nor do they exactly come as a surprise. Especially after the DL debacle, Nikon needs all the good press and it can get. Not having a major product release is one thing. Not having anything but a non-story is a management failure.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on July 25, 2017, 21:04:44
Those previous "non-annoucements" weren't connected with a major anniversary date. Nor, if I remember correctly, did they come with a splashy "Coming Soon" web page with zero details.
The D5 pre-announcement was very much alike, with very little detail, only that they're working on it, and it supports a new type of wireless flash. The D5 was announced at a trade show but more importantly the real deadline was the Rio Olympics.
Quote
Nor is it true that Nikon launches "when everything is ready," unless you think it's coincidence that so many Nikon announcements take place at major trade shows.
Actually Nikon seems to launch stuff pretty randomly through the year and the announcements usually do not coincide with trade shows. Nikon announced 105/1.4 some time before Photokina and 70-200/2.8 and 19mm PC just after it. Customers get their information from the internet these days, not at trade shows. The 8-15mm, 28/1.4, 10-24, 70-300 AF-P, D7500, also announced not at any trade show I'm aware of. Of course it's possible that there was some trade show in some country I never heard about but the thing is that trade shows no longer have much impact on annoucement of products for Nikon. Or Canon for that matter.
Quote
But marketing opportunities like a 100th anniversary don't come around very often. Nor do they exactly come as a surprise. Especially after the DL debacle, Nikon needs all the good press and it can get.
I would be suspicious if a major product was launched at a 100yr birthday. It would indicate that either a) Nikon may be rushing things to meet a calendar deadline, which is never a good thing, or b) they've been holding up a product that has been ready for a while just to announce it at a birthday that occurs every 100 years (losing money not selling it while the product is at its most relevant). I think random announcements throughout the year is the healthiest sign because it shows that they are launching products on their own terms and do not let external pressure influence the launch.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: CS on July 25, 2017, 21:15:25
I would be suspicious if a major product was launched at a 100yr birthday. It would indicate that either a) Nikon may be rushing things to meet a calendar deadline, which is never a good thing, or b) they've been holding up a product that has been ready for a while just to announce it at a birthday that occurs every 100 years (losing money not selling it while the product is at its most relevant). I think random announcements throughout the year is the healthiest sign because it shows that they are launching products on their own terms and do not let external pressure influence the launch.
You cannot be serious. 100 years is not enough time to coordinate the release of a 100th anniversary product? What is suspicious about celebrating 100 years of products with a 100th anniversary product? That is not the way that the Marketing Department looks at things, I promise you.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: MFloyd on July 25, 2017, 21:15:39
I couldn't agree more with Illka: July 25th happens just to be Nikon's 100th anniversary; nothing more. (Crossed Carl's comment :-\)
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: David H. Hartman on July 25, 2017, 21:25:55
Product development takes its own time and the launch is when everything is ready, not before or after. I don't see any reason to delay or hurry a launch of a major product to coincide with company 100 yr celebration.
+1
The same sort of teasing came before the release of the Df. There will be more teasing on the anniversary I'm sure. It's time to hurry up and wait.
I'm sure Nikon has a target date. It's not going to be fixed. It's more likely to be reset later than earlier. Rushing it for the 100th Anniversary date would be foolish. Nikon might hold a release a week or so to meet a specific date. Rushing it a week or so might invite serious problems. It's time to hurry up and wait.
So development takes its own time and release is when everything is ready. Write your letters to Santa now...
Dave Hartman
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: CS on July 25, 2017, 21:30:33
I couldn't agree more with Illka: July 25th happens just to be Nikon's 100th anniversary; nothing more. (Crossed Carl's comment :-\)
So the 100th anniversary is just a "keep moving, folks, nothing to see here" non-event? We will have to agree to disagree about that. Particularly in a shrinking market, any reason to blow your own horn attracts attention, which in turn attracts consumers. Staying silent when you have a legitimate reason to create traffic to your brand is exactly the wrong move.
The three basic rules for success in business are "Early to bed, early to rise, work like Hell, and advertise!". ;)
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Ron Scubadiver on July 25, 2017, 21:38:32
I would be suspicious if a major product was launched at a 100yr birthday. It would indicate that either a) Nikon may be rushing things to meet a calendar deadline, which is never a good thing, or b) they've been holding up a product that has been ready for a while just to announce it at a birthday that occurs every 100 years (losing money not selling it while the product is at its most relevant). I think random announcements throughout the year is the healthiest sign because it shows that they are launching products on their own terms and do not let external pressure influence the launch.
No offense, but you're thinking like an engineer. "External pressure" is an odd way to describe revenue and market share, since that decides whether a company lives or dies. Product cycles are very real. Time to market is very real. Seasonal purchase patterns are very real. And the need to get your marketing message out is also very real. Canon didn't seize and hold the #1 position from Nikon by superior engineering, it did it by superior marketing.
I might agree with you about being suspicious if a major product was shipped on a red-letter day like the 100th anniversary. But announcements with an expected ship date aren't as rigid. If Nikon doesn't have any significant product at that stage in the development pipeline at this point, things are even worse than I thought. I don't see the D4s nor the D5 as marketing successes, BTW. Nikon is currently fighting with Sony for the #2 position in full-frame cameras rather than fighting with Canon for #1.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: BEZ on July 25, 2017, 22:14:52
Strange thread ....the D810 replacement is not overdue. The pro and semi-pro cameras normally have a 3 - 4 year lifespan.
What has Nikon's hundred year anniversary got to do with the release of a D850. I can not think of any connection whatsoever.
I would like Nikon to release a special edition digital SP, or other camera significant to the anniversary though. Fingers crossed.
Cheers
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: MFloyd on July 25, 2017, 22:26:47
Strange thread ....the D810 replacement is not overdue. The pro and semi-pro cameras normally have a 3 - 4 year lifespan.
What has Nikon's hundred year anniversary got to do with the release of a D850. I can not think of any connection whatsoever.
The D810 was announced in Jun 2014, so it is already three years old. Also, it was not really an all-new camera, it is an upgraded D800 which goes back to early 2012, so the basic model is over 5 years old. On that basis, you could say it is overdue for replacement.
However, I acknowledge the sensor and camera is still one of the best on the market. Digital imaging technology is maturing so the pace of change and improvement is slowing. The market is now smaller since cameras have passed the point of sufficiency for most users. Together this means camera companies may need to keep models in production for longer to recover the production costs, so we may see cameras with a longer life-span than previously.
I think Nikon wanted to have something significant to announce on the 100th anniversary. In the current upgrade cycle, the D850 was the best fit so that is what was announced. But I agree with BEZ and Ilkka, Nikon should release products when they are ready, and not to meet some anniversary or trade show deadline.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on July 26, 2017, 06:18:33
So the 100th anniversary is just a "keep moving, folks, nothing to see here" non-event? We will have to agree to disagree about that. Particularly in a shrinking market, any reason to blow your own horn attracts attention, which in turn attracts consumers. Staying silent when you have a legitimate reason to create traffic to your brand is exactly the wrong move.
The three basic rules for success in business are "Early to bed, early to rise, work like Hell, and advertise!". ;)
I've spent much of my working career in technology companies which live or die by releasing products as quickly as they are ready. In those companies, people do worry about seasonality and hitting the buying seasons, but they care almost nothing about releasing a product on some arbitrary anniversary. Nikon is still a technology company, and the recent discussions all focus around capabilities and features, not really what year it is released. I'm surely not alone in my bemusement over some commemorative editions. They are generally hideous and useless. I'm glad to see engineers are working instead of marketeering.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: chambeshi on July 26, 2017, 12:19:37
Not everyone gives out/receives their birthday gifts on the explicit day of the anniversary. Often the most treasured gifts, such as special parties, visits to priceless sites etc are so often timed by logistical realities to occur later.
These are the ones really worth the wait.
In the case of the Nikon D850, we could hear soon - "I was told that selected dealers already had presentations on the details of the D850 and we should start receiving information soon. Stay tuned."
Currently, B&H lists the Nikon D850 with only two features: FX-Format CMOS Sensor 8K Time-Lapse Video
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Hugh_3170 on July 26, 2017, 14:31:32
I am picking that there will be some initial stock at full price for the fanboys, followed by much larger quantities of stock in time for the lead in to the Christmas/New Year sales period.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Ron Scubadiver on July 26, 2017, 15:32:34
I signed up at B&H to receive notification of the D850's availability, thus assuring NAS nirvana.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: OCD on July 26, 2017, 16:40:27
Poor 'ol Nikon, no matter what they do they can't please everybody. (smile). That said...it seems critical that whenever the D850 is released that they get it right. The D750 is on it's third recall and there's been issues of one sort or another with most their recent camera body releases. I think this announcement was a success, it has Nikon folks pretty fired up, and it helps build anticipation, which puts even more pressure on Nikon to nail this one.
I agree with Roland, sensor and image quality has leveled out. Seems to me that camera body updates are more about improving and updating "feature sets" than anything else, which of course can be very meaningful to some people, and to other people maybe not so much.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on July 26, 2017, 17:08:31
there's been issues of one sort or another with most their recent camera body releases.
Most means "> 50%". Let's take a look:
D7500 (2017): no known issue, just released D5600 (2016): no issue D3400 (2016): no issue D5 (2016): no issue D500 (2016): no issue D7200 (2015): no issue D810A (2015): no issue D5500 (2015): no issue D750 (2014): flare issue for those who intentionally shoot to cause flare (other cameras exist that are worse but not recalled probably because their users are smart enough to use the camera properly); shutter recalls D810 (2014): initial thermal noise issue fixed quickly D4s (2014): no issue D3300 (2014): no issue Df (2013): no issue D610 (2013): no issue D5300 (2013): no issue
How far back do you want to go? Did I miss some issue on most cameras, really?
Okay, I didn't include snapbridge, it doesn't work with many phones but I am not counting it here since pretty much no one expects it to. Let's just look at features which are expected to work.
D500 got a firmware "fix" for faulty UHS-II cards but those are card manufacturer issues not Nikon and solved by replacing the card.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Hugh_3170 on July 26, 2017, 17:42:54
Ilkka, you did not mention that there was a certain fraction of the early D600 cameras that had oil splatter issues on the sensor that Nikon was extremely slow to respond to. The D610 is essentially the D600 built correctly with no oil splatter and a very good performance record.
Fortunately Nikon seem to have learnt their lesson from the D600 debacle and have handled the D750 issues very well. Credit where it is due, even if a threatened legal Class Action over the D600 was involved in the background.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: OCD on July 26, 2017, 17:51:52
Also...the D500 has battery issues, among other things: http://www.dslrbodies.com/cameras/the-d5d500-blog/second-week-d500-problem.html https://www.nikonimgsupport.com/ni/NI_article?articleNo=000004779&configured=1&lang=en_US
D600 oil issue on sensor was significant.
It's a fair list, although several of those camera bodies are super-incremental releases (D5300/D5500/D5600 and D3300/D3400) and nothing really significant differentiates them.
Anyway, the criticism to Nikon is fair, which is another reason the D850 announcement has struck a nerve. Let's hope the D7500 is an example of how new product releases will go in the future....nice and smooth.
: )
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: chambeshi on July 26, 2017, 18:41:31
Likely the first authentic photos of the D850 - leaked off press release apparently. Similarilies in ergonomics to the D500, which many of us will welcome :-)
Canon didn't seize and hold the #1 position from Nikon by superior engineering, it did it by superior marketing.
Have you forgotten the Canon envy years? Canon's super telephotos in particular during those years? Sports photographers in particular had to switch as Nikon could not compete with auto focus. Nikon was habitually five years behind. Full frame or 36x24mm? I don't remember how many years but Nikon was behind here. I believe Nikon fell behind because of late technology.
Dave Hartman
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: D800Dominic on July 26, 2017, 19:40:13
I understand that there is a high probability of a Hybrid EVF-Optical Switchable Viewfinder. I am further aware that many know/think that the Nikon sample 8K Time-Lapse promotional video for the Nikon D850 can already be done with software and the existing out of production D800/D810. Wonderful, moreover, Nikon has hopefully, temporarily lost its mind by using customers as their, for its profit, beta test force. Silly me believes that the 100th Anniversary has significant value to the Japanese culture and that Nikon will use their opportunity to reclaim both the luster and the stage spotlight that they have forfeited in recent memory. I fully expect that while not an Über camera, the Nikon D850 will be traditional game-changer as was the the Nikon D800 series and that was a beautiful thing.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: MFloyd on July 26, 2017, 21:12:27
I wish this is true .... https://youtu.be/wSdnVVswrQ4
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: chambeshi on July 26, 2017, 21:17:38
invoking this patent of 2013... one can only hurry up and wait for reliable news
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: pluton on July 26, 2017, 23:24:37
It appears to NOT have a built-in flash(OK with me) and why is the 'BKT' button where the flash button used to be? If bracketing has been moved to the former flash button area, what is the new control in the 'Four Kings' in the former rewind knob position?
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: David H. Hartman on July 27, 2017, 00:07:24
Have you forgotten the Canon envy years? Canon's super telephotos in particular during those years? Sports photographers in particular had to switch as Nikon could not compete with auto focus. Nikon was habitually five years behind. Full frame or 36x24mm? I don't remember how many years but Nikon was behind here. I believe Nikon fell behind because of late technology.
Dave Hartman
Not at all. Nikon had already lost the #1 position by then. Remember the "Image is Everything" campaign? All of those AE-1 and AE-1 Program bodies Canon sold created the cash flow and corporate support to take on Nikon and win.
Nikon's venture into autofocus was a primarily a marketing mistake, which was that they believed that professional photographers "didn't need" technologies such as autofocus and VR and absolutely, positively wanted to hold on to the F-mount at any cost. Even so, their R&D department beat Canon and Minolta in producing an AF SLR, had the first lens with a CPU, and was the first to put VR into a consumer camera. After the F3af failed, the next batch of Nikon AF cameras and lenses were targeted at amateurs. They used Series E designs for two models and didn't bother with professional favorites like the 80-200mm f/4 or 105mm f/2.5. Even now, 30 years later, people express anger at Canon for switching mounts, but history has shown it was the right choice.
As a microcosm of Nikon's poor marketing, consider, if you will, the F3 flash system. By the time the F3 came along, it was pretty clear that hot shoes were becoming the industry standard, and Nikon took a major technological step forward by adding TTL to the F3. Yet not only did Nikon carry forward the "over the rewind" approach, but when it introduced F3P to add a hot shoe, they didn't include TTL in that design. Then something like 18 years later, they finally introduced the AS-17, even though the F4 had been out for a decade. Believe it or not, Nikon USA still lists the AS-17 as a current product.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: chambeshi on July 27, 2017, 18:40:15
Latest update on the D850 on NR. Still subject to official confirmation
Improved low and high ISO, and particular the Low ISO. If it remains as it is with the D810, that is fine with me. If they can improve it, wonder full, but if it goes "tacky," no deal for me.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Jan Anne on July 27, 2017, 21:00:41
If the potential - best of both worlds - OVF/EVF hybrid rumour is true it is a clever move from Nikon:
Downside is that only Nikon F mount lenses will fit and none of the new mirrorless only lenses designed for a much shorter flange distance, nor Leica M mount, Canon FD, Canon EF, etc. For most of NG this doesn't matter though :)
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Akira on July 27, 2017, 21:25:32
I think this "Angry Photographer" missed one critical point. The distances of the focusing screen and the EVF put on the front of the pentaprism from the finder eyepiece are different. So, either image will be out of focus when looked them through the ocular.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: aerobat on July 27, 2017, 22:22:03
A hybrid view finder sound very appealing to me. Already when the first Nikon Df teaser videos were shown a few years ago, I though it could feature a hybrid view finder. This looks like a logical next step to me.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: pluton on July 28, 2017, 06:14:37
I think this "Angry Photographer" missed one critical point. The distances of the focusing screen and the EVF put on the front of the pentaprism from the finder eyepiece are different. So, either image will be out of focus when looked them through the ocular.
Unless the diopter adjustment could accommodate the range necessary?
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Akira on July 28, 2017, 06:57:34
Unless the diopter adjustment could accommodate the range necessary?
Even if the difference of the distances are within the range of diopter adjustment, it should be totally inconvenient if you have to re-adjust the diopter every time you switch between OVF and EVF. The automatic adjustment in the ocular can make the pentaprism bigger and complicated.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: arthurking83 on July 28, 2017, 09:21:17
by that reasoning then, it'd make more sense to add a translucent EVF screen on the same plane as the focusing matte, most likely after it along the optical path, ie. sandwiched between the matte and the prism. It would then lose a small amount of light transmission in the OVF system having a clear/transparent LCD type screen in the way too.
Surely tho, if there as indeed a switch for an EVF, that the switch would also act on a refocusing mechanism to account for any focus discrepancies. Alternatively the EVF LCD component could be made deliberately unfocused to take into account that focus distance issue, thereby making in focus at the ocular.
For them to remove the built in flash, the implication must surely be that the prism is probably going to be larger in some way.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: MFloyd on July 28, 2017, 18:37:26
No EVF or hybrid viewfinder according to NikonRumors https://nikonrumors.com/2017/07/28/nikon-d850-updates-no-evf-or-hybrid-viewfinder-even-faster-than-8-fps.aspx/
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: jhinkey on July 28, 2017, 18:38:00
Apparently it will just have a plain old OVF . . . according to the latest rumors.
No big innovations in this camera - just the same evolutionary feature/design changes one would expect.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Alaun on July 28, 2017, 19:24:18
Well, if that mirror goes up, how does it black out the pentaprism?
As it seems, Nikon is working on an adapter, to use lenses for mirrorless cameras on cameras with a mirror box, so I assume they also are developing mirrorless cameras:
I think the third mentioned patent there on nikonrumors is quite interesting about “Another converter lens patent - probably for a fix lens camera”. It is about a relay lens, which enables to use a lens, which would interfere with a mirror box, on a camera with a mirror box ….
US2017192209 (A1) ― 2017-07-06 Inverted Equal - Magnification Relay Lens And Camera System
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Ron Scubadiver on July 28, 2017, 22:14:42
I am very happy with an OVF. Nikon has had almost 60 years to prefect it. Meanwhile, we keep getting tidbits. 8fps+.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: MILLIREHM on July 28, 2017, 22:34:33
Visited Nikon Austria today
Their officials were talking about the D850. Findings:
10 fps (without battery pack) together with fast AF this will be a sports capable camera with 46 Megapixels resolution (appears to adapt something of the D500 concept for FX) NOT compatible with MB-D12, there will be a new dedicated battery-pack They expect the first samples to be available in October Pricing will be about 1000 Euros above the D810 which will remain available in parallel
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Akira on July 29, 2017, 01:01:26
I see a tendency of Nikon to sacrifice the low-ISO dynamic range for the high-ISO performance and faster frame rate (data readout) on the newer models (D500/7500 compared to D7200 as well as D5 compared to D4s). According to the comparison of the DR performances of D810 and D810A, they seem to know how to tune the sensor.
Hopefully they don't do that on D850 compared to D810.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: tommiejeep on July 29, 2017, 07:26:10
Wolfgang, that last line is a bummer. I thought maybe the D850 and D500 would work for Soccer. The 46MP taking the place of a TC1.4 on the 300 f2.8. Finally retire the D3S but the D3S is good enough when it comes to money. Have sold more gear (and still more to go) so will wait and see :) . Tom
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: MILLIREHM on July 29, 2017, 09:28:56
Forgot to mention: D850 will use EN-EL15 batteries but there is a new version out now (the third one) the EN-EL15a. Nikon gave me three of them to replace my old 01 versions that do not fully support the D500
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: chambeshi on July 29, 2017, 13:48:46
I see a tendency of Nikon to sacrifice the low-ISO dynamic range for the high-ISO performance and faster frame rate (data readout) on the newer models (D500/7500 compared to D7200 as well as D5 compared to D4s). According to the comparison of the DR performances of D810 and D810A, they seem to know how to tune the sensor.
Hopefully they don't do that on D850 compared to D810.
It will most interesting to see how the dynamic range performs, especially at slowest ISOs. Perhaps the D810 may remain the optimal solution for landscapes and closeups.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: chambeshi on July 29, 2017, 13:49:40
The leaked photos confirm similarities to the D500, in all this intrigue... Hope a 3rd version of the EN-EL15 will also work in the D500!
Their officials were talking about the D850. Findings:
10 fps (without battery pack) together with fast AF this will be a sports capable camera with 46 Megapixels resolution (appears to adapt something of the D500 concept for FX) NOT compatible with MB-D12, there will be a new dedicated battery-pack They expect the first samples to be available in October Pricing will be about 1000 Euros above the D810 which will remain available in parallel
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Akira on July 29, 2017, 17:00:59
The leaked photos confirm similarities to the D500, in all this intrigue... Hope a 3rd version of the EN-EL15 will also work in the D500!
EN-EL15a is essentially the same as the "Li-ion20" version of EN-EL15 that addressed the compatibility issue of the first version (Li-ion05) with D500. Then Nikon changed the model name to that with the suffix "a" and the color from darker gray to lighter gray to make the incompatible and compatible versions more discernible when they released D7500. So, no worries.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: MILLIREHM on July 29, 2017, 17:07:34
The leaked photos confirm similarities to the D500, in all this intrigue... Hope a 3rd version of the EN-EL15 will also work in the D500!
As Akira said - dont worry Successfully used a new EN-EL15a in my D500 today First version was the 01 (not 05), followed by 20, "new" EN-EL15a is still 20 but gray instead of black as been mentioned alrady
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Ron Scubadiver on July 29, 2017, 21:12:46
"Pricing will be about 1000 Euros above the D810 which will remain available in parallel"
Now, that's bad news on the price, but good news the 810 will hang around.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: MILLIREHM on July 29, 2017, 22:48:46
It will hang around for a while but they did not say how long the D850 and D810 will be both available. I guess it wont be unlimited but they need to sell of the remaining production of the D810. Not sure if there might be substantial price drops of the D850 at a later stage.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Ron Scubadiver on July 29, 2017, 23:28:22
It will hang around for a while but they did not say how long the D850 and D810 will be both available. I guess it wont be unlimited but they need to sell of the remaining production of the D810. Not sure if there might be substantial price drops of the D850 at a later stage.
Pricing is always a bit uncertain and exchange rates have a lot to do with it. I would like to hang around for a while, but it won't be unlimited even if there no more Ron Scubadivers in inventory. Perhaps a price drop on the 810 when the 850 ships.
Title: Re: Nikon D850 Announcement of an Announcement of Development
Post by: Akira on August 01, 2017, 00:13:19