NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Processing & Publication => Topic started by: MFloyd on February 15, 2017, 19:43:42
-
Casual portrait, during a party, of the daughter of a friend. She has a virtual perfect skin. Nevertheless, I used it for a Ps postproduction exercice using the "frequency separation" technique.
Frequency separation allows you to separate the texture (high frequency) from the image from the tone and colour (low frequency). By doing this you can work separately on the texture, or the skin beneath.
(1) edited image
(2) 2k x 2k crop
(3) Base RAW unedited (2k x 2k crop)
(4) side by side of (2) and (3)
Picture was made with a D610 and the standard provided kit lens i.e. Nikon 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5
If there is interest, I will be happy to provide more information.
This is a technical exercise. I'm not looking for whether this type of edit is "good or bad"; just to show what is possible. ;)
-
I have used this technique to process portraits, I think it is good to create very smooth skin,
today I try to mix it with the original in order to leave some texture in the skin
This editing can take a long time to complete and often it is not appreciated
somewhat as how HDR was a few years ago
All that matters is that you and the model like the results :)
-
Thank you Armando 😊 to have taken the time to reply. Normally, I put the transparency lower than 100% in order to have a less sanitized (Playboy / Vogue style) look. This style is probably more appreciated by the adolescent model than by the photographer, the latter often not mastering, even knowing the time consuming technique.
I was somewhat surprised to have to wait for the first comment after about 60 visits. Your parallel with HDR is very appropriate; I'm using the latter from time to time in aviation photography where I have to combine interior and exterior of a plane, and this with quite naturaL looking results. It's again a matter of nuance, by not pushing the PP handles too far.
As mentioned in my opening statement, it's a technical demonstration, not one of style 😏
For the interested (?), here an excellent tutorial by Aaron Nace (PHLearn) a professional Ps editor https://youtu.be/ldhG9fmgC7o
-
I think many read, but just didn't know what to say without thinking for a while.
It is certainly an interesting technique, but the results are a bit too extreme for me to want to spend time on. In a time where we have such things as alternate facts, changing a person's face like this seems like just a little more propaganda.
However, all photography is. The lenses select, filter and distort, the camera stretches or compresses time, the photo-editor processes and adjusts, all in the interest of a story. The story told in this photo is a fantasy. Not an uncommon tale for the photographer.
-
I have not taken a single portrait where the subject have prefered the retouched version over the natural look. But the time spent on the on the job is lightyears apart. I guess people here are still able to see them selves in the mirror and recognize themselves. That said, I dont think your picture is overcooked, but I would have expected the subject to prefer an intermediate variant :)
-
Frankly, I was trying to avoid answering your thread.
The secret sauce of FS is the amount of blur in the LF. You miss that and you miss the boat like in your example.
The second common error is retouching on the LF.
In the case of this pic skin detail in some areas have been lost and uniformity of skin texture namely on the nose arch - cheeks and chin.
The give away of having retouched color on the LF is the false contouring whereby a brownish patch is on both sides of the forehead and repeats on the cheeks/jaw line. The skin texture under her lower lip is completely obliterated
The non uniformity of skin color is emphasized on the neck.
The final retouch on brightening and sharpening of the eyes and teeth creates a visual distortion against the smoothed skin. In other words, you went too far in brightening and sharpening.
All collaborate in the common error of using FS the way it should not be used.
The main issue on her face seems to be a hair issue from the eyebrows upward.
While this can be cured with FS, I would have rather worked on the red channel to mask the hair and lighten the hair.
The issue with using FS in this case is the fact of replacing skin areas with other skin areas and this is an art by itself as you have to respect luminosity - skin orientation and so on. This portrait retouch seems easy and simple but it is not.
It is a hair issue and not a skin issue.
I hope this helsp.
-
Thank you Jack and Ethan for having taken the time to react.
@Ethan: don't apologise for your critics; I'm not here to grab kind / polite comments but to have feedback which is close to the bone. With regard to the LF part; the blur has been quite moderate 7 to 8 px for a 24 Mpx image; there were no "skin replacements" but some local additional Gaussian blurs added at around 24 px; some small local adjustments were made at the HF part. There were no colour adjustments, let's forget channel corrections, as the latter is beyond my expertise.
Eyes and theets were also exaggerated but under Lr; I do a first edit under Lr and, for the 5 or 10% of the cases, an additional processing with Ps.
Again, I re-emphasize this was a technical exercise, in a certain way, to find the boundaries of what is acceptable. And as I'm doing FS about two times a year, I'm not a specialist, and advice, as yours, is more than welcome.
In any case, if you or someone wants to have a trial, here is the link to the raw file https://www.dropbox.com/s/vkmun1bf1jk1m3b/_6101357%20copie.NEF?dl=0
And to end on a more humorous note (from the same series, and without FS): ;)
-
I didnt see this thread before and only happened upon it when I opened the Processing forum tab. So sorry I missed it too.
For me Armando summed it up quite well. While I appreciate FS (and have done it) - for me it is a schlep and I get just as good results with other methods in my workflow. I am not sure how my versions will compare to FS - so maybe my comment is a bit unfair. Apparently FS is a preferred method by many top end guys - or so I am lead to believe.
Whether your version is overdone or underdone is not the point really - because you can adjust it anyway you like till it suits your taste.
-
Thank you Elsa 😊. Your contribution is always valued.
I have hereunder a more subtle (I hope so) application of FS:
(1) edited picture
(2) crop & comparison: edited FS (L) and without FS (R)
-
Mr FLoyd
I think is would be unfair to comment on the last comparison as the purpose of FS here isnt realistic (in my opinion of course)
Skin smoothing with FS is not something I believe would ever be done or be necessary to be done on male portraits. SO it looks out of place for me. Also - any skinning - including all methods of blurring and FS - should be fitting for the type of photography. In other words, doing holiday scrap book photos should not be skinned at all, whereas fashion undoubtedly should be. Skinning goes together with the style and purpose of a portrait. If the subject is a natural looking non make up person walking on the beach in swimwear, it might not fit the image nor her personality. If however you do touch up for Ramp, magazines etc, you could lay as much as you see fit, as it suits the occasion.
-
I think that pretty much sums it up. Use common sense. 'Fingerspitzgefühl' if I remember my German correctly should also be apt.
-
I think you both miss the point. Next time, I will CAPITALIZE the purpose: SHOW WHAT IS TECHNICALLY POSSIBLE. Nobody was asking - and certainly not the subject - for skin smoothing. OK, next subject .....☹️ Probably flowers or bugs 🐜....
-
My apologies for expressing my thoughts correctly - let me try re-fraze if possible.
I absolutely like what is possible. And I do believe FS does a great job - it is used by many in the high end industry exactly because of what is possible. It is not new, and I have used it as well, I just don't have the need for it in what I do - so I don't use it.
I think is would be unfair to comment on the last comparison as the purpose of FS here isnt realistic (in my opinion of course)
To explain this better - I (think I) know what you were trying to show - but using a male for the purpose of the demonstration doesn't help to show exactly how useful FS can be. Skinning just doesn't fit on a man so it makes it "uncomfortable/difficult" to "judge" as it just seems wrong. This is why I said it would be unfair of me to make a comment on the method because I am distracted by the fact that the subject is a man. Yes I know I might be blonde :) but as I also said - it is my opinion. Others may feel differently. I did not mean to suggest you do FS on your male portraits in general and that I disagree with you about that.
I hope I made it a bit more clear what I meant and I had no intention of offending you or your methods
-
First, I'm blond too. Correction: I used to be, my blond hairs becoming silver grey in my late thirties.... With regard to the subject, I digged in some portraits, and my son's best friend hasn't the smoothest skins in the world, but he has absolutely no problem with this. But it was a good occasion for me to expriment FS, certainly not at his demand, nor at mine. 😊 In the meantime I found my next subject: "how to make grey hairs blond again" 😜
-
Okey well if you find a cure for turning silver gray back to black - let me know. I am in need ;D ;D
(only my brain is blond)
(I DO understand you used the male portrait as an example and didn't mean it to be what you usually do - although I have been known to skin some males in the past ;D ;D ;D . )
Seriously I am just too lazy to do the FS method - (maybe in my next life I have more energy)
-
Winters are long here; and at the bottle neck of the Geneva Lake, mist is clogging up in the valley for about 3 months... so plenty of time for some darkroom - euh lightroom - experiments...
-
Met some photographer guy the other day - he had an accident and was stuck at home for months - so he learned Photoshop. Always an upside to anything :)
-
With regard to the LF part; the blur has been quite moderate 7 to 8 px for a 24 Mpx image; there were no "skin replacements" but some local additional Gaussian blurs added at around 24 px; some small local adjustments were made at the HF part.
For this pic. 7/9 px are just he upper limit.
If I understand correctly. You did a second FS on some areas at 24px?
or you used the same one and increased some areas to 24px?
24px is too high for this image
Eyes and theets were also exaggerated but under Lr; I do a first edit under Lr and, for the 5 or 10% of the cases, an additional processing with Ps.
Her eyes and teeth are pretty sharp in the original file. I would have just emphasized her make up. corrected her eye brows and slightly whitened her teeth.
Again, I re-emphasize this was a technical exercise, in a certain way, to find the boundaries of what is acceptable. And as I'm doing FS about two times a year, I'm not a specialist, and advice, as yours, is more than welcome.
Quite clear that it is an exercise. It is a very important exercise as technique put aside. This particular image does not have any skin issues to be addressed with FS but she has facial hair issues needing a different approach.
All is good.
[quote author=MFloyd link=topic=5443.msg86907#msg86907 date=1487236284
In any case, if you or someone wants to have a trial, here is the link to the raw file https://www.dropbox.com/s/vkmun1bf1jk1m3b/_6101357%20copie.NEF?dl=0
And to end on a more humorous note (from the same series, and without FS): ;)
[/quote]
I did download your image and really like the second one. As you might know. Portraits are very much last century in the fashion world and now we have a new pompous name for it: Active Portraits. Don't laugh as I personally think it is hillarious but very true. We do not pose people anymore in terms of facial expression and only correct extreme body postures. It is more snapshot photography designer standard if this means anything. Conclusion it is Marvel comics translated on live subjects.
It sounds easy but in fact is much more difficult to nail the shot.
Which means you score higher on your second pic.
The eyes double lid- eye brows and teeth were retouched. Skin was corrected and replaced. B/G nilled as the bloke in the backgrund is intrusive.
Tonality of the pic whether brighter or darker or contrast can be changed at will based on the photographer style.
No FS was used.
Original:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/Duke_1/_6101357--MF-Loyd_zpsuczzdh1q.jpg)
Processed:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/Duke_1/_6101357--MFLoyd_zpsxxpru5yc.jpg)
-
Hello Ethan. Thank you for having dedicated a part of your Saturday morning on editing my picture. Excellent result ! Yes, the "hair" problem is to a large extent attributable to her Italian roots I believe 😊. And I didn't put a lot of effort into correcting it; eyebrows are not too difficult; but I was some discouraged for the upper-lip part 😏
The 24px Gaussian blurs where directly put on the LF mask. I should rater have used the stamp tool, but I didn't.