NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => What the Nerds Do => Topic started by: Erik Lund on October 13, 2016, 20:40:46
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This little thing came about due to our usual collaboration here on NG - It works with all the new E type lenses - Bjørn mentions this little gadget in our recent Norway thread and I just found this snapshot I took of it while testing my D200 [IR] prior to leaving for the party.
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5333/30269763276_2833fcb747_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/N7Qs3h)_EGL9268 (https://flic.kr/p/N7Qs3h) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr
Below a capture with it on the 105mm AFS 1.4 E
(https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5572/29674211893_6c14bd25c2_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Mdd6mZ)_EGL6620 (https://flic.kr/p/Mdd6mZ) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr
Enigma is that the ring doesn't change focal length in the Exif file like its supposed to - but that is of course handy here since no fl change is happening,,,
On a TC-20E or similar; If you do this hack and need to remove the information ' X teleconverter fuctionality' (that slows down AF speed) you block the rightmost contact on the female end of the 'Extension tube'
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I want one! :)
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It's nice to see how your "AF-S extension tube" looks like. So, you needed some work on the internal part to have enough space for the light flux from the large rear elements of fast lenses? You just can't disassemble the TC and re-assemble it without the optical parts?
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You can unscrew the optical cell,,, but I made it all the way to about the inside diameter of the F-Mount - to make it fit any Nikkor F lens,,,
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You can,,, but I made it all the way to about the inside diameter of the F-Mount - to make it fit any Nikkor F lens,,,
I see. Thanks for the explanation!
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I want one! :)
Me too :)
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Thanks to my good friend, Erik, I got one .... A perfect fit with the AFS 105/1.4 E. Plus probably a lot of other Nikkors.
The added extension brings the magnification of the 105E into a highly useful range, as witnessed by the (admittedly boring) shot of a Campanula latifolia flower on the recent Norwegian trip with Erik. Here I have stopped down a bit, to f/4.5, as the subject itself is 3-D, yet the bokeh of the rather busy background remains commendably smooth. Detail sharpness is up there with the best "macro" lenses.
Only the vestiges of axial colour hint that a non-specialist optic has been deployed. As always, don't think the master lens won't suffer from added extension if such isn't a planned part of the optical design. The claim that extension adds "no glass" is trivially true,; however, the extension in itself alters the conjugate distances and throws them outside the designed range. Since the 105E starts out being such an exceptional lens, it fares pretty well with only small signs of increased field curvature and increased chromatic aberrations.
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I want one!!!!
I fancy to use it with the 300PF mostly.
How much is it?
Can I pay by Paypal?
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sorry, I am confused because the image shows a teleconverter :o :o :o
so the TC-14 is now functioning as an extension tube because the optics were removed? kinda slow today, coffee still brewing. sorry ::)
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A neat adaptation - kudos to Erik.
How many millimetres extension is it from the front to the rear flange surfaces?
One great advantage here is that the body of the tube is metal. Many of the third party extension tubes (e.g. Kenko) that I see being offerred on Ebay have plastic bodies, which don't bode well for use with heavier lenses.
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Does anyone know of Nikon compatible extension tubes with electronic contacts and metal bodies? Many advertisers say that their tubes are made of metal, but it is just the bayonet and lens mount that are actually metal (and often just alloy at that!) - the bodies are poly carbonate if you are lucky.
Thanks in advance.
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A neat adaptation - kudos to Erik.
How many millimetres extension is it from the front to the rear flange surfaces?
One great advantage here is that the body of the tube is metal. Many of the third party extension tubes (e.g. Kenko) that I see being offerred on Ebay have plastic bodies, which don't bode well for use with heavier lenses.
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Does anyone know of Nikon compatible extension tubes with electronic contacts and metal bodies? Many advertisers say that their tubes are made of metal, but it is just the bayonet and lens mount that are actually metal (and often just alloy at that!) - the bodies are poly carbonate if you are lucky.
Thanks in advance.
I use the Kenko one. I will check if it has anything metal in it. so far for general macro use it is more than OK by my standards. very well built. :o :o :o
I know that the majority do not like to use AF in macro mode but I do to counteract the shifts due to the wind, shaky hands and my breath. ::)
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Rick, the contacts are necessary to set the aperture of AF-S lenses and actuate the electric apertures of E lenses.
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Rick, the contacts are necessary to set the aperture of AF-S lenses and actuate the electric apertures of E lenses.
yes, i found out after a cup of coffee that the aim was to have an all metal extension tube with modern contacts :o :o :o
super slow in the mornings these days because of the visiting family and too much work ::)
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I want one!!!!
I fancy to use it with the 300PF mostly.
How much is it?
Can I pay by Paypal?
I use a modified TC-20E for the longer focal length like the 300mm to really make a difference - However not all lenses react equally well to extension! Unit focusing lenses usually works quite well but not most IF designs,,, Voting is still out for the 300mm AFS 4 PF with extension,,,
http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,2077.msg24697.html#msg24697
You send me a TC-14E, TC-17E or TC-20E and pay 100€ plus return post via PayPal ::)
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A neat adaptation - kudos to Erik.
How many millimetres extension is it from the front to the rear flange surfaces?
One great advantage here is that the body of the tube is metal. Many of the third party extension tubes (e.g. Kenko) that I see being offerred on Ebay have plastic bodies, which don't bode well for use with heavier lenses.
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Does anyone know of Nikon compatible extension tubes with electronic contacts and metal bodies? Many advertisers say that their tubes are made of metal, but it is just the bayonet and lens mount that are actually metal (and often just alloy at that!) - the bodies are poly carbonate if you are lucky.
Thanks in advance.
As a basis the extension tube is now the length it has always been, about 24.7mm but as mentioned a TC-17E or TC20E are candidates as well - Beyond that one could cut down these to any size below that, however you will loose the leavers that convey the aperture value, minimum aperture setting indication and the stop down function,,, We did butcher a TC14B for a special project before - The Enigma.
http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,2820.msg37451.html#msg37451
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Many true telephoto designs do not respond well to added extension. One has to experiment to learn whether results are worth the efforts.
However, for lenses that are useful with extension, adding a working TC to the extension is worth while to try out. As to the 105E, one indeed needs something in between in order to make any TC fit.
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Born curious, this morning I ventured outside in the half-light and heavy wind to snap some shots in my front yard. In a corner there is a small Sorbus koehneana (Chinese Rowan) shrub that tends to get nice autumn colours. Not this year though as the temperatures have stayed far above the freezing point so far. Still, an easily available target is handy, and I verified that AF works well with the 25 mm extension Erik made for me, plus with a genuine TC14E.2 in working order attached. Any background simply melts away using such a combination.
Shot at effective f/2.1 with Df at ISO 1600.
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Near by, there is a large Athyrium filix-femina Lady Fern again not getting its autumn colours this year. However, the delicately laced fronds make a good test subject for the AFS 105E with extension and TC14E.2 added to it.
The very shallow depth of field and the manner in which bokeh is imparted to the background makes explorations of these ferns an enjoyable experience.
For the Lady Fern fronds, I stopped down a little more, to effective f/2.8. Df as before.
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I use a modified TC-20E for the longer focal length like the 300mm to really make a difference - However not all lenses react equally well to extension! Unit focusing lenses usually works quite well but not most IF designs,,, Voting is still out for the 300mm AFS
You send me a TC-14E, TC-17E or TC-20E and pay 100€ plus return post via PayPal ::)
I just bought a 20E in mint condition for 186 Euros insured and shipped.
So total costs will be a little north of 300 Euros.
Looking forward to it.
Does it make sense to drive other G and E lenses trough such a long extension?
My 85/1.8 is and IF design IIRC.
What about a future 105E?
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A modified TC20E might be on the longish side for the 105E, but probably will do good service on the 300 mm class lenses.
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IMHO the 300mm AFS 4 PF don't take extension well, see the last posts in this thread:
http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,2077.msg71376.html#msg71376
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If you are in the UK and don't have a lathe I can take out the middle for you ..just get in touch ..no charge.
Personally I find unless you are stacking 3 Kenco tubes there is minimal play,
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If you are in the UK and don't have a lathe I can take out the middle for you ..just get in touch ..no charge.
Personally I find unless you are stacking 3 Kenco tubes there is minimal play,
The thru hole of the third party extension tubes are too small a diameter for most applications.
The shell of the TC is very thin so you need to disassemble it first, you cant just clamp down on it on a lathe.
A complete disassembly is needed to get rid of any chippings also to not cut the flex-board.
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Well the offer is still there if you are in the UK and need something turning. I always buy cheap petal lens hoods ( $4 ) and turn off the threads and bayonet to my Nikon lens . I keep the expensive originals for the re sale.
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....
However, for lenses that are useful with extension, adding a working TC to the extension is worth while to try out. As to the 105E, one indeed needs something in between in order to make any TC fit.
I have a Kenko 1.4x TC that fits and works on the 105 E
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Interesting. Do you have any pictures taken with this combination to share? I assume the optics of the Kenko don't protrude in the same manner as with the Nikon TC 14 then?
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This is the picture "of" the Kenko x1.4 TC:
http://www.kenko-tokina.co.jp/imaging/eq/4961607601273_l.jpg
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I was wondering what the magnification effect would be of a converted 1.4 or 1.7 TC. Initially I could not find the info but after searching again, I found some info. If it is not correct, perhaps someone could provide the correct info.
The basic formula is magnification = total extension divided by focal length (M = TE / F). Without extension tube the total extension would equal the internal extension (IE). Since most vendors list the magnification ratio, this internal extension can be calculation easily: IE = M x F.
When you add an extension tube, the formula would be M = (IE + EE) / F. EE being the length of the extension tube (External Extension).
Examples:
For the Nikon 105 1.4E the given magnification ratio is 1:7.7 or 0.13. So the internal extension (IE) is 105 x 0.13 = 13.65
When you add a TC-14 as tube with a length of 25mm, the Total Extension would be 13.65 + 25 = 38.65mm. Hence the Magnification ratio would become M = 38.65 / 105 = 0.37 or roughly 1:3
Adding the same tube to a Zeiss 135mm (with a magnification ratio of 1:4 or 0.25x) the outcome would be 0.44 or roughly 1:2.2
Hope this helps for other dummies like me. If not, it helped me. ;-) which probably says a lot about my level of knowledge in this field.
source: http://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/5603/how-can-i-calculate-what-the-effect-of-an-extension-tube-will-be
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Modern optics are more complex than what assumed by these simple equations (for the case of a 'thin' lens). They at best give ballpark figures.
It is best to to try with a ruler what kind of magnification you get. Such tests will also show to what extent the increased field of curvature, commonly emerging by adding extension, causes of issues including more chromatic aberrations.
Never fall prey to the widely circulating myth that extension "has no glass hence will not influence image quality". This is entire wrong, simply because the added extension pushes the conjugate distances out of their design range into uncharted terrain as it were. Lowered image contrast, loss of sharpness, more field curvature, spherical and chromatic aberrations, are the usual responses even of high-end lenses. Some do behave better than the pack and in general, the better lens one starts with, the better output will result.
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I have a Kenko 1.4x TC that fits and works on the 105 E
Full AF and Aperture control?
The picture Akira just posted does not show the contact block.
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Full AF and Aperture control?
The picture Akira just posted does not show the contact block.
Frank, you should see the teeny-weeny bit of the contact block on the camera mount side. :)
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Akira. I found a listing at an online photo shop selling tge Kenko 1.4 for Nikon with the contact block visible.
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With the same idea in mind, I bought a AF Vivitar 1.4x and a AF Tamron 2x for cheap some time ago. They both have a 7 contacts block.
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do they support Nikkor-E lenses?
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About the ask the same: for such items to be eligible as candidates for "pass-through" extension, they need to preserve functionality of 'E' lenses. Plus the inner tube has to be wide enough so as not to cause vignetting.
Being robust and securing a sturdy connection to the camera is a given requirement as well.
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The contact blocks of Bruno's TCs have seven contacts. The new TCs by Kenko-Tokina that are compatible with G and E Nikkors (called TELEPLUS HD) have eight contatcts:
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1032981.html
(Frank, sorry, the image of the latest TCs can be found in the webpage linked above. The previous link is for an older TC.)
However, the 300/4.0 FP has ten contacts. :o :o :o
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.... However, the 300/4.0 FP has ten contacts. ...
So has the TC-14E.2 that Erik used as material for the pass-through extension.
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Sorry for the somewhat late reply.
The Kenko I have is the Kenko Teleplus PRO 300 DGX 1.4x AF Teleconverter. The image is not 100% the same one as I have, but very similar. It has 8 pins on the other side.
IMHO it's not usable. AF is ok (on a D500) but IQ is lousy, but I tried only for a few images.
First one is at about 5m, the second about 25m. Both very soft and hazy (it's not the lens nor the camera ;D)
I did not tried the converter with other lenses yet.
Bot images are cropped to about 1800px
@Bjørn - I take it with me the next time we meet
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'Not usable' is apparently an understatement ....
Besides, the internal opening is small and will cause vignetting for lenses with a large exit pupil.
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I don't have an E lens, so can't test but AF and metering do work fine with a 80-400 AF-S on a D750. The inner hole is 34mm on both the Vivitar and Tamron, without Dremeling. Increasing it would require touching the contact block.
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Maybe I missed something, but what is wrong with the Kenko Auto Extension tubes - maybe too narrow?
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Maybe I missed something, but what is wrong with the Kenko Auto Extension tubes - maybe too narrow?
Don't think so, but the quality is marginal and there's movement when coupled with the lens.
Body is soft plastic and locking system is, again, marginal in quality.
I have used two of them to make a PB-5 all electronic connected, thought.
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Don't think so, but the quality is marginal and there's movement when coupled with the lens.
Body is soft plastic and locking system is, again, marginal in quality.
Hope that problem is solved on the new models.
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Can you post a DIY guide on this operation? I am tempted to try my luck disassembling the 14E I got yesterday and making the extension tube myself
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That might turn out to be an expensive learning session.
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Completely disassemble the TC to avoid chips inside.
Drill to cut away the optics, like a Swiss cheese, first with drill of 2mm close to each other, then remove the in-between part drilling with a 3mm.
Watch out for the CPU print board while working on it.
Remove all the rough edges with a half round Needle file.
Apply matt black paint.
Reassemble.
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Ouch. Tougher than I thought.
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Mine is totally disassembled.
Almost all lens taken out but still the front element resist normal unlock.
I know that I can use brute force (may the force be with me), but I'll try to do it by the book.
All process is photo documented, and it has more parts than expected...
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Me too :)
...and me, too.
Apparently Erik would need an assembly line to meet the demand... ;-)
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...and me, too.
Apparently Erik would need an assembly line to meet the demand... ;-)
I just sent him two TCs...
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Here's mine... 8)
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Very nicely done Pedro! Looks good ;)
Looking forward to how you like it,,, ;)
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Used it for testing and a couple of photos.
Works great and the link is a "nikon" fit, not the floppy one that kenko provides.
Really happy, next will be a 20E
:)
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Completely disassemble the TC to avoid chips inside.
Drill to cut away the optics, like a Swiss cheese, first with drill of 2mm close to each other, then remove the in-between part drilling with a 3mm.
Watch out for the CPU print board while working on it.
Remove all the rough edges with a half round Needle file.
Apply matt black paint.
Reassemble.
Just finished the two very nice extension tubes for Frank; TC-14E AF-I version and TC-E20E II
Internal flocking is best applied during assembly for the 20, the 14 just get a bit after assembly.
Also remove the rightmost contact on the 'female' contact block to keep focus speed fast for the 20
Warning:
When removing the 'female' contact block take extreme care!
Especially the 14 is not advisable to remove, better to leave it on and shield it from metal parts while drilling.
The 20 slides out with great care,,,
Reason: The flexible print board are soldered onto the block in situ... :o
Don't ask,,,
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Yesterday I did the same to the TC20.
On this one the entire glass block came out nicely, so no more drilling needed. It has on the rear side two notches that with the right spanner and luck (because the block has glued threads) can be unscrewed.
Erik the print board is not soldered to the block. I know because I've removed it (look at the TC14 photos). But, and it's a big BUT is glued, so great, great care to unglue the thing. I use a special surgical thin blade to work through the glue.
On the TC20 didn't have to, because the glass block came out.
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Pedro, your TC14 was the 14E.mk1, Erik's description was for 14E.mk2.
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Pedro, your TC14 was the 14E.mk1, Erik's description was for 14E.mk2.
uppps... sorry
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The strains from the soldering is very visible inside the cast housing,,, the design of the flexible print board is changed in the later versions I believe.
Anyway, it takes 4 hours to repair it if you break it,,,
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Yesterday I did the same to the TC20.
On this one the entire glass block came out nicely, so no more drilling needed. ,,,,
Then you only get 33.5mm of through hole, If you drill it it's larger
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Then you only get 33.5mm of through hole, If you drill it it's larger
Indeed. Do you think we'll need it larger? I have tried with some lenses and didn't realize any vigneting.
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For large rear element, macro work and long lenses you do need it.
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For large rear element, macro work and long lenses you do need it.
Yes Sir.
Schedule the surgery for tomorrow :)
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Here are some fast Sushi @ high ISO & bad light just testing. The focussing range is very small, so I move back and forth to focus as I often do with macros.
Cannot wait to step outside and try several different lenses in good light!!!
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I have heard a rumour that Nikon will release two new extension tubes with contacts this year as part of the 100 year anniversary,,,
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Erik, I really hope that this rumour is true. If so, these new tubes will be most welcome indeed, even if they are over 20 years too late!
I have heard a rumour that Nikon will release two new extension tubes with contacts this year as part of the 100 year anniversary,,,
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I have heard a rumour that Nikon will release two new extension tubes with contacts this year as part of the 100 year anniversary,,,
This would be very great. I could use a PK-11-size with full contacts!
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After some tests the 14E & the 300PF seem to be a dream combo. The 300PF seems to hold onto its high resolution quite well. I am not sure if I prefer the D600 or the D500 with that combo, but as the D500 AF is not being slowed down, chasing insects seems to be quite an option with this combo after some practice. Here are some examples I took with the D500:
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And here are some with the D600:
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Quite less useful ist the combo of 14E and the Neo-Noct, because there is only a very small range of possible focus. I am more or less fixed to one single subject distance. Also the remaining resolution with extension is not as high as it is with the 300PF. Nice thing is that the lens character provides the option of dreamy flower scapes:
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Do you have the 85 1.8G to try for me please?
I don't know if it's worth to find such extension tubes
Thank you
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I do not like the 1.4s. Tried them extensively. I love the 1.8/85G and can try it if this helps you.
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Yes that's the lens I have, It would be nice to see some close ups from this lens
Thank you
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Will do it within the next week. Lots of work
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Here we go with the extended 1.8/85G, just came back from the wild front garden.
First set @f/1.8:
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Second set at f/8 (3 x same perspective):
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I see the lens is holding good resolution for close ups with an f 4 could be nice, how many mm is the distance added by TC14?
Frank thank you very much!
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The distance is a tad less than with the PK-13, roughly 23mm
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I "had" this Kenko teleconverter, that was not in use.
Inspired by the work by Erik, I thought that I might convert it to an auto extension tube, it worked with the 300mm PF ED, so the signals to control the aperture was ok.
It was rather easy to get the optics out, had to use some bit grabber to get the F-mount of, but it came of and it should be possible to assemble again if one would want it.
Had a small accident with the ribbon cable, but managed to repair it.
Apart from telling the wrong aperture, it still thinks it is a x2 converter, everything seems to work.
The extension is larger than with the Nikon converter 41mm.
Picture taken with Df ISO3200 1/1000S f4
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Very nice ;)
If you disconnect the 'last' pin you will restore full AF speed if you need that,,,
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The last, is it to the left or right when looking at the F-mount?
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Re: Kenko tubes.
Rigidity of 12mm tube+lens is much, much better if you exchange female bayonet on the tube on original Nikon from ring probably 40 years old...
Strait forward job!
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The Kenko tube is unfortunately made of plastic, but the bayonet mounts is metal.
The tube is 41mm, so no need to extend it :)
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Has anyone heard if this rumour has materialised?
I for one hope that it does - hopefully with tubes with all metal barrels and bayonet mounts!
I have heard a rumour that Nikon will release two new extension tubes with contacts this year as part of the 100 year anniversary,,,
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But Kenko actually makes a 3 piece set with AF-S functionality, I guess composite materials are used ;)
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Last pin ;D is the last pin to get into contact so to speak 8) #10
https://nikonhacker.com/wiki/F-Mount
Canon has the same, there it's the two last pins tell the AF to slow down
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Has anyone heard if this rumour has materialised?
I for one hope that it does - hopefully with tubes with all metal barrels and bayonet mounts!
No, it's still a rumor :o ;)
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Thanks for info, will try it
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I would recommend to do it in the rear of the converter/extension tube, take out one pin, as I recall it also works in the front, simply removing the metal contact pad, how I did it first with the 2x TC.
Then you can always mount the pin again ;)