NikonGear'23

Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Airy on August 30, 2016, 22:42:46

Title: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Airy on August 30, 2016, 22:42:46
I found a mint copy of the 105/1.8 : no scratch, no dust inside. This lens has been debated elsewhere; so just a few remarks:
- very bright image through the EVF, and easy to focus (although the ring is a bit stiff)
- Good sharpness wide open, not so good near MFD, but loads of LoCA at all distances
- Sharpness increases massively at f/2.8, where it looks comparable to the 105/2.5 at f/4
Overall, it is an impressive lens. However that sample cost 749€, also because it is in perfect shape. I do not mind paying for the optics, but if I have to pay for the cosmetics in addition, the price might result in being too high. Here, I said pass. If someone would like to buy it, I'll send him or her the address (in Paris).

The purpose of the shopping spree was however to pick a 50/1.8 AI. There were two for sale, all very clean and nice. One sample had a slightly irregular focussing stiffness near MFD; its f/2 stop position notch was too easily skipped, and it seemed to have slightly (very slightly) more LoCA. So I picked the other, slightly older sibling (ser. no. 202... instead of 212...).
Interesting behaviour:  at f/1.8, I still do not like them - some blueish haze, as with my later pancake AIS version. By contrast, the Voigtländer 58/1.4, while not much sharper, behaves way better even at f/1.4. But at f/2.0, the haze of the 50/1.8 AI is more or less gone (more distinclty than with the late AIS I have, ser. No. 4xxxxx) and the vignetting is much more discreet; sharpness remains the same, i.e. it is reasonably good. So that lens was a deal. The pancake AIS will later get back to the shop where I bought it, which happens to be the same (le Moyen Format, Boulevard Beaumarchais).
The 50/1.8 AI seems sharper than the 50/2 at 2.0-2.8 settings, but at f/4, the situation seems to reverse, with the 50/2 taking the lead.
Hmmm... more A/B comparisons in perspective.

Provisional conclusion: 50/1.8 AI is best used at f/2 - f/2.8. The 50/2 deserves its reputation for sharpness, if stopped down. And yes, that 105/1.8 is one sexy lens.
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Frank Fremerey on August 30, 2016, 23:34:03
The 1.8/105 is huge and heavy ... that is possibly the only downside of this gem
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Jacques Pochoy on August 31, 2016, 01:05:06
I have'nt yet seen a real difference between the the 50/1.8 AI and the 50/2 AI, other then I use the latest more. That shop (le moyen format) had some ex-students of my school of architecture working as sales clerks some years ago, as the Leica store a bit higher on the same boulevard...  ;D
The Nikon NPS service a bit higher still, can be very efficient and speedy !
The true name of the Boulevard Beaumarchais is in fact the Boulevard of Photography (most of the most important shops are there)!
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: richardHaw on August 31, 2016, 01:31:58
sorry, which 50 1/8 is it? :o :o :o
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Akira on August 31, 2016, 02:13:39
I liked the Nikkor P C 50/2.0 on my F2 eyelevel but would have liked it even more with the 7-blade aperture.  Both Ai and Ais 50/1.8 have the 7-blade ones.

In the DSLR era, I definitely prefer Ai 50/1.8 over Ais because of the longer focus throw of Ai.
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Tristin on August 31, 2016, 03:03:56
On the 105, loads of LoCa and degrading performance closer to the MFD is not at all what I experienced with 2 copies.  I'd say you have a poor copy. 
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Akira on September 01, 2016, 00:40:54
I'm not sure, but I would suspect that the seemingly impeccable sample of 105/1.8 you saw was poorly serviced.

Years ago, I saw a mint 20/3.5 (the first, 72mm filter version).  I looked into the finder and was surprised by the amount of barrel distortion which was somewhere between that of rectilinear wideangle and fisheye.  That was unbelievable for a well reputed super-wideangle.

Later I obtained a factory Ai converted mint sample that showed almost unnoticeable distortion.  The differentce was way more than the sample variation.

Much later I heard that the first sample I saw could have been poorly re-assembled after the cleaning.  The assembling of the lenses in the earlier days required sophisticated workmanship.
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Airy on September 01, 2016, 03:07:18
Possibly. I experienced that with a Noct sold for 1350€, the performance of which was incredibly bad. I still have the test shots. Not knowing if it could be fixed and for what price, I did not buy it....
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Tristin on September 02, 2016, 00:22:45
The 105/1.8's consistency from MFD to Infinity is one of the standout features I observed in the two I have used.  Likely why I have seen it being used for reproduction and measuring.
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Airy on November 15, 2016, 17:26:38
On the 105, loads of LoCa and degrading performance closer to the MFD is not at all what I experienced with 2 copies.  I'd say you have a poor copy.

Just bought a nice one for 300€ only (seller in a hurry, focussing and aperture rings a bit stiff, optics quite OK). I maintain that LoCA and short range performance are not that great - same experience as with the other one, sold for 750€ in mint condition. Otherwise the lens seems excellent. Vignetting is very low, too.
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: longzoom on November 15, 2016, 19:22:48
Just bought a nice one for 300€ only (seller in a hurry, focussing and aperture tings a bit stiff, optics quite OK). I maintain that LoCA and short range performance are not that great - same experience as with the other one, sold for 750€ in mint condition. Otherwise the lens seems excellent. Vignetting is very low, too.
.   Watch it carefully - aperture unit of 105/1.8 is very sensitive, blades are on weak side, due to weak directing pins. If there is even trace of oil on the blades, DO NOT use it, clean it first, unit must be immaculate clean. Good luck!   LZ
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Airy on November 15, 2016, 21:09:08
Thanks for the warning. I have checked the blades the usual way, i.e. looking at both sides; no apparent issues. The other check I routinely perform is the sticky blades test : same shot at all apertures. If the shots become lighter at narrow apertures (putting aside the effects of vignetting), this means that the diaph blades do not manage to close in time before the shutter does its job. Again, no issue. In the past, only a Noct failed the test in my hands (probably a weak spring, but it also had other issues and the shop lost my confidence).

I was not aware of the problem with the 105/1.8, so I had another check minutes ago, confirming the "pass". Thanks again for the warning (3 months guarantee is all I got).
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Airy on November 15, 2016, 21:38:14
A few impression from the 105/1.8:

While the 1.8 aperture comes with low contrast and purple fringing, it is usable - maybe more so at night. See the second picture, shot wide open for testing purpose (using f/1.8 with a "deep" subject is not, in general, a good idea).

The first however was shot at f/5.6 : nice sunstars.
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Airy on November 15, 2016, 21:53:17
Requiem for a leaf. f/1.8. Funny bokeh. Not overly sharp at MFD (opinion also emitted by other reviewers)
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on November 15, 2016, 21:56:26
I think in my old review there was a sentence about 'veiling flare' at the very widest aperture(s).

The ability of the 105/1.8 to produce nice "star bursts" has been commented on many times. This remains one of the particular attractions of this lens model.
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Airy on November 15, 2016, 22:06:20
Well, yes there is some. But I could still get that kind of shot - distance is more than MFD and sharpness is much better already. Of course the backgrouund blur is proportionate to the aperture....
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Airy on November 15, 2016, 22:11:35
Now just for fun - loads of flare, but not caused by internal reflections. f/2.8.
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Airy on November 15, 2016, 22:18:53
Comparison between f/1.8 and f/5.6. Focus was on "Cerises / Tea & Pastry".
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Airy on November 15, 2016, 22:21:15
And finally (for today), another shot wide open. Focus was on the running lady.
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Airy on November 15, 2016, 22:26:09
Last correction - the shot above is +/- SOOC, including the bad white balance. Given the overcast weather, I'd expect a higher color temperature than 4463 K !!! so I decided to dial in 5200 K, and here's the result.
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: John Geerts on November 15, 2016, 23:05:05
Congratulations with this fine lens, Airy.  I use the lens a lot in f/2.0.  The image is better than wide open, but still with the wide open-effect.

I find the performance on the Df the best.
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Airy on November 15, 2016, 23:10:05
Indeed, by f/2 there is already distinctly more contrast and less purple fringing, though not reaching f/2.8 level.
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Akira on November 15, 2016, 23:32:54
Love the crisp and sharp rendition of the fog!   ;D

Joke aside, the sharp tower and the fine gradation of the fog make a nice contrast.  The complementary color enhances the contrast effectively.
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Tristin on November 16, 2016, 01:16:28
Low contrast and weird front bokeh are definite issues with the lens I have noticed over time.  The low contrast doesn't bother me, but the foreground bokeh is to be avoided usually.  I tends to have a very un-natural look, as if it were added later.  A shame!

The low contrast and flare resistance when pointing at light sources make it an excellent night lens as my recent Oakland Protest pics show.  Streeghtlights and fires made no negative impacts.
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Airy on November 16, 2016, 05:48:40
I concur with both of your statements. Night shots are unexpectedly good. With most lenses I'd avoid full aperture, not necessarily with this one. I could not see any outrageous coma either. Will give it another try.

Front bokeh: it's common wisdom to avoid OOF items in front of the subject, so the following may be useless knowledge. The only lens in that FL range with better front bokeh (compared to background bokeh) is the old Tamron 90/2.5 SP macro.
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Airy on November 16, 2016, 11:53:38
A quick comparison between the two 105 AIS :

- Brickwall shooting, at close range (about 1.5m)

Wide open and at 2.0, the 105/1.8 delivers relatively soft images with somewhat mushy corners.
At 2.8, the center is more or less equivalent, but the 1.8 got a flatter field and much better corners. The 1.8 has slightly warmer colors and slightly higher contrast.
At 4.0 and above, the 1.8 is better (contrast, sharpness).

- 3D subject, 2m distance:

Very similar rendering at same apertures. Slightly less LoCA with the 1.8 lens.

(continued)
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Airy on November 17, 2016, 21:03:37
As reported earlier, the wide apertures (f/1.8, f/2.0) are not really convincing at a short distance - sharpness suffers, purple fringing and LoCA are apparent. Obviously, the lens has been optimized for long distances (see also the thousand and one nights #59).

This morning, I shot one of my favourite testing targets, the Eiffel tower, focussing on Mr. Fresnel's name, a tribute from a happy 300PF owner.

First series at f/1.8, second at f/5.6 that might well be the optimum. Full shot and 100% crops. The camera was my trusty, and certainly not rusty, Df the blank polished metal is starting to shine).
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Airy on November 17, 2016, 21:05:06
(now at f/5.6)
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Airy on November 17, 2016, 21:08:29
Bottom line : f/5.6 offers more contrast and detail, but f/1.8 delivers no mush (also consider that the subject is not flat...). Very impressive.
Title: Re: Today's shopping : 105/1.8 and 50/1.8 AI
Post by: Tristin on November 18, 2016, 03:43:07
Bottom line : f/5.6 offers more contrast and detail, but f/1.8 delivers no mush (also consider that the subject is not flat...). Very impressive.

Yeah, it is an excellent landscape lense.  Especially in high contrast scenarios and at night.  The low field curvature really makes a huge difference, this is where the 2.5 performs poorly.