Author Topic: NIKKOR 600mm f/5.6E PF ED (Coming this Year?)  (Read 1491 times)

JKoerner007

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NIKKOR 600mm f/5.6E PF ED (Coming this Year?)
« on: April 17, 2018, 15:07:34 »
According to NikonRumors, it's happening.

The 600 PF is slated to be 33cm long compared to the Nikkor 600mm f/4E FL ED, which is 43cm.
(The 300 PF is only 14.7cm, compared to 27cm in the 300mm G)

What I am equally-interested in is the weight.
I am hoping the weight ratio will similarly be cut by 75%, while the dimensions are similarly cut in half.

The 300 PF is a delightful 755g, while the 300 G is hefty 2900 g.
(If the ratio remains true, the 600 PF will only be around 1- to 1.2 kg, compared to the 3.8 kg of the 600 FL.)

Even if the 600 PF is 2000 g (2kg), it would be a dramatic difference.

To realize what a dramatic difference this would make, carrying both the 300 PF and the 600 PF would still weigh less than just carrying the old 300 G by itself, let alone the 600 FL.

Now that's exciting ;D

Hope it's true 8)

Akira

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Re: NIKKOR 600mm f/5.6E PF ED (Coming this Year?)
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2018, 15:15:28 »
Considering that Canon EF400/4.0 DO (560/5.6 with 1.4x TC) is 232.7mm long and weighs 2,100g, the assumption should not be too inaccurate.
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Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: NIKKOR 600mm f/5.6E PF ED (Coming this Year?)
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2018, 17:42:09 »
The 600/4 is already of the lightweight new FL generation whereas the 300/2.8 is older and quite heavy. (In fact Nikon have made several lighter 300/2.8's in the past). So the ratio 300/4 PF vs. 300/2.8G should be compared with 600/5.6 PF vs. 600/4G, not E FL. If the ratios are similar, the 600/5,6 PF might weigh 1.3kg. Which is still ridiculously light weight if realized.

I suspect they won't quite achieve that weight but somewhat heavier.

Frank Fremerey

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Re: NIKKOR 600mm f/5.6E PF ED (Coming this Year?)
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2018, 17:57:58 »
ouch. could burn a visible hole in my pocket
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Chris Dees

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Re: NIKKOR 600mm f/5.6E PF ED (Coming this Year?)
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2018, 18:22:36 »
ouch. could burn a visible hole in my pocket
More like a crater. I guess it will be about €7000 (Canon 400DO pricing).
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Frank Fremerey

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Re: NIKKOR 600mm f/5.6E PF ED (Coming this Year?)
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2018, 18:27:51 »
7000€ is too much for me. I will stick with my 300pf plus 1.7x
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JKoerner007

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Re: NIKKOR 600mm f/5.6E PF ED (Coming this Year?)
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2018, 18:52:45 »
More like a crater. I guess it will be about €7000 (Canon 400DO pricing).

7000€ is too much for me. I will stick with my 300pf plus 1.7x

I don't think it will be that much.

If we use the previous model, the 300 f/2.8G is $5,500 USD, but the 300 PF is only $2000, making the Fresnel less than half the cost (and that's the old, clunky G, not the high-end FL).

Following the same/similar formula, I would expect the 600E PF to be $5,500-$6,000 USD at the most.

Ian Watson

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Re: NIKKOR 600mm f/5.6E PF ED (Coming this Year?)
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2018, 19:14:53 »
Following the same/similar formula, I would expect the 600E PF to be $5,500-$6,000 USD at the most.

A bit less than a D5. That would make it just cheap enough to be attainable for those who really want a 600mm lens.

I will have to be content with hoping people here will share their photographs  8)

Frank Fremerey

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Re: NIKKOR 600mm f/5.6E PF ED (Coming this Year?)
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2018, 19:27:39 »
4500 to 5000 would be the sweet spot for me
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Alaun

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Re: NIKKOR 600mm f/5.6E PF ED (Coming this Year?)
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2018, 21:53:53 »
 8) The weight to size relationship is cubic. The size relationship given with the 600mm is smaller than with the 300mm lenses. So I would assume a larger weight around 3000gr.
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Didier Klein

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Re: NIKKOR 600mm f/5.6E PF ED (Coming this Year?)
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2018, 22:20:56 »
The 5,6/600 Ais IF-ED weight was around 2800g...so the nex PF-E should be lighter, between 1500 and 2500g ...I guess.
Around 2000g it would be a pretty lightweight long tele !

Mongo

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Re: NIKKOR 600mm f/5.6E PF ED (Coming this Year?)
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2018, 01:19:11 »
It is the one lens that has been of any interest. Mongo is expecting it to be very light for its focal length/fstop - approx 2 kgs. It has to be more compact than you would expect a 600mm f5.6 to be. It has to be seriously sharp to compete. It has to be usable with converters (at least X1.4 and others would be a bonus beyond that). It has to be sensibly priced (less than USD$5000).

Of all of these features, the sensible price is the only feature that Mongo would bet money on that it will lack. Nikon seems to price its products on what the market will bear rather than its intrinsic value. The 300mm PF-E is over priced for what it is. No doubt, the 600mm 5.6 PF-E will be likewise unless in both cases, you place a very high additional value on weight/size. This is where the premium is struck by Nikon for these products. It may well be a premium you are happy to pay for these conveniences.

Other considerations include, say, the Sigma 500mm f4. While it will likely be heavier at 3.4kgs (and 53cm with long hood attached), it is a reasonably high standard lens. In Australia it is currently priced at approx USD$4900.

Many may not consider possibilities that are not Nikon. However, there are a handful of third party lenses that have outstanding specs, performance and pricing. Mongo would happily go for the anticipated 600mm PF-E in preference to other options provided it ticks all the right boxes. However, based on past experiences, he is doubtful that it will

JKoerner007

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Re: NIKKOR 600mm f/5.6E PF ED (Coming this Year?)
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2018, 01:52:25 »
The 300mm PF-E is over priced for what it is. No doubt, the 600mm 5.6 PF-E will be likewise unless in both cases, you place a very high additional value on weight/size. This is where the premium is struck by Nikon for these products. It may well be a premium you are happy to pay for these conveniences.

Hmm, I fear you have it exactly backwards: the 300 f/4 PF is a steal compared to other options.

I have personally lugged the 'premium' ($5,500) 300 f/2.8G VR II for over 2 years ... and I sold it to get the ($2,000) 300mm f/4E PF. Two things are true, now that I've made the switch and spent the money:

  • The 300 PF the best $2,000 I have ever spent in my 10 years buying lenses;
  • I would never buy the 300G version again.

The 300 PF is by far the more preferable lens to bring in the field, really in almost conceivable field circumstance than the 2.8G version. It's lighter, easier to deploy, and gets you more shots, with the image quality more than matching the premium version in all but the rarest circumstances. You can go from quasi-macro, to telephoto, all hand-held, and you can hang onto it all day long without once ever feeling the weight.

Virtually every user who has the "premium" 300 f/2.8G is looking to dump it for the 300 f/4E PF ... and everyone who has actually made the switch (almost universally) remarks, "the 300E PF is the most enjoyable lens they've ever used."

Mark my words: when the 600 PF comes out there will be 1) an exodus of people with their $12,000 600mm f/4 "barbells" wanting to dump these cumbersome tools for the much more comfortable 600 f/5.6 the moment it's available; and 2) the image quality of the 600 PF will be just as exemplary as the FL ED glass. Maybe not on test charts performed by pixel-peepers, but in real life by those who take photos.

Honestly, some of the best birding shots I have ever seen have come from 300 f/4 PF users ... with the 'only' complaint being inadequate reach in some cases. The 600 PF will address this deficit.
If Nikon makes a 600mm f/5.6 lens that has the same/better image quality as the 300 f/4 PF ... at half the weight, and less than half the price ($5,500 as opposed to $12,000) ... even Ray Charles could see it is more than worth a 5-6K tag.


Other considerations include, say, the Sigma 500mm f4. While it will likely be heavier at 3.4kgs (and 53cm with long hood attached), it is a reasonably high standard lens. In Australia it is currently priced at approx USD$4900.

Many may not consider possibilities that are not Nikon. However, there are a handful of third party lenses that have outstanding specs, performance and pricing. Mongo would happily go for the anticipated 600mm PF-E in preference to other options provided it ticks all the right boxes. However, based on past experiences, he is doubtful that it will

Well, we all have our preferences of course.

Me? You couldn't pay me to lug around a $5,000, 7.5lb, 500mm "Sigma" ... when I could enjoy a $5,500, 3-4 lb, 600mm Nikkor PF.

The only problem I can foresee will be, just as the outrageous demand for the D850 has made it perpetually "on backorder" ... I believe the moment the 600 f/5.6E PF is released, it will be on backorder forever.

Mongo

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Re: NIKKOR 600mm f/5.6E PF ED (Coming this Year?)
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2018, 02:27:53 »
Mongo understands what you are saying. However, the thing that stands out overwhelmingly from what you have said is that you have placed enormous (if not all ) emphasis on weight and convenience of transport. That is fair enough because Mongo has lugged 600mm f4s around the woods too and he does not disagree with you in part.

The comparison you seek to make,   “at half the weight, and less than half the price ($5,500 as opposed to $12,000)” is not an “apples with apples” comparison. One would hope the new 600mm PF-E will have stellar specs but it may not perform like a $12,000 lens or have its speed (f4). The point Mongo was trying to make was that there are options that give $12,000 performance (including f4 speed) at a $5000 price. Yes, they do not have the weight advantage of the 600mm PF-E but in every other respect, unless weight/size is your only criteria, you would have to at least consider these other options as real, available and to be discounted before going straight to the 600mm PF-E.

There is no disagreement that the new 600mm PF-E will be over subscribed and on backorder. One word of warning in relation to new and untested (in the real world) Nikon products. Mongo has had very bad experiences with several new Nikon products and as such will never again be the first to buy them e.g D800 left focus issue and 200-500mm focus issue. Allowing new products to be in the market and tested by other impatient first buyers is a great advantage. Then buy when the bugs have been sorted out.

As Mongo has said, he hopes the new 600mm PF-E ticks all the boxes as it would be his preferred choice. However, the boxes have to have more than just weight and size as the prize.

JKoerner007

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Re: NIKKOR 600mm f/5.6E PF ED (Coming this Year?)
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2018, 02:55:49 »
Allowing new products to be in the market and tested by other impatient first buyers is a great advantage. Then buy when the bugs have been sorted out.

That can be true.


As Mongo has said, he hopes the new 600mm PF-E ticks all the boxes as it would be his preferred choice. However, the boxes have to have more than just weight and size as the prize.

Having shot the 300 PF, I have no doubt the 600 PF will be as good (or better).

Nikon's time/effort/excellence goes up ... when the price goes up ;)

I know of one hardcore ex-Canon bird shooter who says he was able to capture (with the D500 + 300 PF) what he could not capture with his 1Dx II + 200-400 L, regarding birds-in-flight.

He also mentioned carrying the 1Dx II + 600L + tripod over his shoulder, and "missed" many opportunities "putting it down" to deploy his holstered D500 + 300 PF ... that he would have got, had he just left the heavy gear behind.

I'll be eager to see the exact dimensions/weight of the realized 600 PF, but (based on the great E glass Nikon's been putting out of late) I have no doubt the 600 PF will be more than acceptable.

We shall see!