Author Topic: Nikon D5 - first impressions  (Read 42361 times)

Erik Lund

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #135 on: March 26, 2016, 23:52:08 »
Thanks for the update! Looking forward to more ;)
Erik Lund

James Farrell

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #136 on: March 27, 2016, 00:01:14 »
On page 99 and 100 of the english version of the user manual, Nikon lists some graphs and data on the interaction of lens types, TC combinations with lenses and their respective implications on the number of available AF cross sensors.
In a nutshell, the 500mm/f4 and 200-400mm/4 lenses can only use the center field AF cross sensors(with the exception of the 500mm FL version), the 600mm/f4 in addition one row of outer AF cross sensors on each side (no exception for the 600mm FL). Most other lenses below f4 have the full coverage of AF cross sensors.

please refer to the D5 manual for more detail (don't want to copy the 2 pages into the thread)

rgds, Andy
Andy (and anyone else): I saw this table in the D5 manual a few days ago and it raised some questions. I don't understand why my Nikon 200-400 f/4 VR-2, for example, is limited to the 45 center AF cross sensors. That said, I do understand that when one adds a teleconverter that starts to limit the number of cross sensors. But why would a "naked" lens (i.e. no teleconverter mounted) of the caliber of the 200-400/4 VR-2 be limited in use of AF cross sensors? I must be missing something (not unusual). Thanks in advance for helping my senior-citizen brain try to understand this.
Jim F. from Prescott, Arizona

Andy

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #137 on: March 27, 2016, 11:00:55 »
Yesterday,
I've provided Bill Claff more and other test images he asked for last week. To further his as usual very good and insightful analysis - this time about the read noise of the D5 sensor.
Plus, pls also see Marianne Oelund's comments in the thread @dpreview.

Here is his first take (of the second part) of it:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3983969

Here is the first part, for those who are interested:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3981547

rgds, Andy


Vilhelm

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #138 on: March 27, 2016, 19:12:28 »

My wish concerning this post: Please someone compare D3, D4, D5 output side by side visually

Don't have a D3, but I have a D4S and the above requested comparison is so time-consuming that I am confident some professional gear blogger will do it. I don't have the gear nor the time to complete such a comparison.

I got my D5 last Thursday, and have since been shooting with it. I always felt with the D4 that ISO 8,000-9,000 was the maximum acceptable quality, with the D4S the same quality maximum was set at ISO 18,000-20,000. With the D5, I find that ISO 40-64k is fine and depending on dominant color channel even ISO 80,000 looks acceptable, with the same quality standards (noise/detail/grain).

This is ISO 64,000 on a D5. I really really have difficulty in grabbing the D4S for a photoshot, now that I am growing accustomed to the D5 performance

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dibyendumajumdar

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #139 on: March 27, 2016, 22:15:04 »
Hi - thanks for posting the samples from D5. I am curious about the D5's AF system's accuracy with F1.4 lenses as compared to the D4. Has there been any improvement in this regard?

Thanks and Regards
Dibyendu

Vilhelm

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #140 on: March 27, 2016, 23:21:03 »
Hi - thanks for posting the samples from D5. I am curious about the D5's AF system's accuracy with F1.4 lenses as compared to the D4. Has there been any improvement in this regard?

This is somewhat confusing to me, did the D4/D4S have problems with focus accuracy on f/1.4 lenses? I never experienced that.

I've used the D5 for 4 days now, of which only one day was real work. Can't say too much of the AF other than that it feels better than what I was used to when focusing on moving targets (used to = I used a D4 and D4S before)
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dibyendumajumdar

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #141 on: March 27, 2016, 23:41:13 »
This is somewhat confusing to me, did the D4/D4S have problems with focus accuracy on f/1.4 lenses? I never experienced that.

Hi - I found focusing on moving targets at F1.4 was not accurate/reliable. This is also stated by Rob Galbraith in his review of the D4 (http://www.robgalbraith.com/multi_page9056.html?cid=7-12721-12406). I understand that this is a known issue in that the AF system in Nikon cameras was designed with F2.8 and below in mind - please also see this thread by Marianne Oelund (http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/54211961).

Since the D5 has a new AF sensor I was wondering if AF with faster lenses has improved.

Regards
Dibyendu


Erik Lund

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #142 on: March 28, 2016, 00:30:07 »
With all due respect, the 1.4 AFS lenses focus just fine on D3, D3X, D4 and D810 IMHO

They are not as fast focusing as the Pro f/2.8 zooms but there is another reason for that.
Erik Lund

Andy

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #143 on: March 28, 2016, 01:27:37 »
I am curious about the D5's AF system's accuracy with F1.4 lenses as compared to the D4. Has there been any improvement in this regard?
Thanks and Regards
Dibyendu
Dibyendu,
the answer is the usual yes and no :)

Depending of the lens/camera combo, the D5 is sometimes like a few of my other bodies off the focal plane with a few fast lenses (Please consider that Nikon calibrates AF systems with a 50mm/1.4 reference lens set at f2.8. I heard this back in 2011). I had a few of my bodies and fast lenses travelling mutiple times to Nikon's service facility in Dusseldorf in 2011 (the whole process took more than 2 months and brought forward the spectral sensitivity of AF systems built into the D3/D3s/D3X/D7000, plus a few other gimmicks. The spectral issue had been fixed in the D4/D800 generation. More info on this exercise in german language). This is the bad part.

The good part is, that fixing it with the D5 is a sneeze vs. the previous cameras.

The Auto AF fine tune is described in the Menu Guide on page 110 (The Menue Guide is only available as PDF, it is not in the box. There is only the User Manual as printed doc)
Correcting the AF of a lens takes about 5 seconds (*) if you have a proper target (i.e. a vertical plan sheet). The AF is then not "perfect" in the pixelpeeper sense (neither is the Live View AF always 100% correct at this level), but it is as simple as to be very valuable that you can do it on the fly when needed.

rgds, Andy

(*) 5 seconds is now the time it takes to set AF when the camera is on a tripod. It is really simple.
but ....
My first attempt took roughly 30 mins, I was close on raising a service request for help :(
1) I couldn't find the AF fine tuning button sequence in the user manual. There is no mentioning on auto AF fine tune in the D5 User Manual.
2) There was info in the internet that the button combination was (AF-mode) and (shutter release) - but that didn't work ...
3) When I figured out that it was covered in the downloaded Menu Guide, the right button combination to press is "AF-mode" and "Video-Rec"
4) Then the error message popped up every single time "Auto AF fine tune is not available at current focus setting" and didn't let me store the adjustment value
5) The culprit was the focus selector in LiveView mode: It has to be *exact" in the center of live view field. Putting it approximate there doesn't do the trick. Pressing the OK button in LiveView to put it perfectly in the center did the trick and brought me over the finish line that I could store the AF compensation value.
6) Now it is really a short and convenient process

rgds, Andy

Frank Fremerey

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #144 on: March 28, 2016, 08:50:04 »
Thank you Andreas. That is a very good argument for the D5 and D500.

Fast prime performance suffers most from not fine tuned AF.

A 5 second fix is a viable solution.
never trust a picture that is flawless (modified quote from Tyler Joseph in his song "Lane Boy") https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey

Andy

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #145 on: March 28, 2016, 10:39:17 »
Marianne Oelund started a thread "D5 - New features and Issues"
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3984292

Initial comments on:
High-ISO Image Quality, camera JPEGs
AF speed/consistency
New Advance Mode Control
LCD and Viewfinder display changes
Menu display of folder number
Folder names
Playback Image Numbering
AF Fine Tune Default range
Third-party lens issue

On XQD readers - just seen @NFF:
With the initial batch of D5 comes a Sony XQD card and a card reader. Pls consider that the with the D5 supplied Sony card reader QDA-SB1A can't read the "old" XQD cards we used to have with the D4 (The "H" Series). There is another card Sony reader MRW-E90, which can read all XQD card models. Sony XQD speed and compatibility list: http://www.sony.net/Products/memorycard/en_us/xqd/



rgds,
Andy

Tersn

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #146 on: March 28, 2016, 10:52:09 »

The good part is, that fixing it with the D5 is a sneeze vs. the previous cameras.

The Auto AF fine tune is described in the Menu Guide on page 110 (The Menue Guide is only available as PDF, it is not in the box. There is only the User Manual as printed doc)
Correcting the AF of a lens takes about 5 seconds (*) if you have a proper target (i.e. a vertical plan sheet). The AF is then not "perfect" in the pixelpeeper sense (neither is the Live View AF always 100% correct at this level), but it is as simple as to be very valuable that you can do it on the fly when needed.

rgds, Andy

(*) 5 seconds is now the time it takes to set AF when the camera is on a tripod. It is really simple.
but ....
My first attempt took roughly 30 mins, I was close on raising a service request for help :(
1) I couldn't find the AF fine tuning button sequence in the user manual. There is no mentioning on auto AF fine tune in the D5 User Manual.
2) There was info in the internet that the button combination was (AF-mode) and (shutter release) - but that didn't work ...
3) When I figured out that it was covered in the downloaded Menu Guide, the right button combination to press is "AF-mode" and "Video-Rec"
4) Then the error message popped up every single time "Auto AF fine tune is not available at current focus setting" and didn't let me store the adjustment value
5) The culprit was the focus selector in LiveView mode: It has to be *exact" in the center of live view field. Putting it approximate there doesn't do the trick. Pressing the OK button in LiveView to put it perfectly in the center did the trick and brought me over the finish line that I could store the AF compensation value.
6) Now it is really a short and convenient process

rgds, Andy

Thanks, for sharing this useful info, Andy! It is hard to understand why Nikon made it so difficult to find it and why they failed to be mentioned it in the D5 User Manual etc.  :o
Terje S.

Marc

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #147 on: March 28, 2016, 15:08:24 »


The Auto AF fine tune is described in the Menu Guide on page 110 (The Menue Guide is only available as PDF, it is not in the box. There is only the User Manual as printed doc)
Correcting the AF of a lens takes about 5 seconds (*) if you have a proper target (i.e. a vertical plan sheet). The AF is then not "perfect" in the pixelpeeper sense (neither is the Live View AF always 100% correct at this level), but it is as simple as to be very valuable that you can do it on the fly when needed.

rgds, Andy

(*) 5 seconds is now the time it takes to set AF when the camera is on a tripod. It is really simple.
but ....
My first attempt took roughly 30 mins, I was close on raising a service request for help :(
1) I couldn't find the AF fine tuning button sequence in the user manual. There is no mentioning on auto AF fine tune in the D5 User Manual.
2) There was info in the internet that the button combination was (AF-mode) and (shutter release) - but that didn't work ...
3) When I figured out that it was covered in the downloaded Menu Guide, the right button combination to press is "AF-mode" and "Video-Rec"
4) Then the error message popped up every single time "Auto AF fine tune is not available at current focus setting" and didn't let me store the adjustment value
5) The culprit was the focus selector in LiveView mode: It has to be *exact" in the center of live view field. Putting it approximate there doesn't do the trick. Pressing the OK button in LiveView to put it perfectly in the center did the trick and brought me over the finish line that I could store the AF compensation value.
6) Now it is really a short and convenient process

rgds, Andy

Many thanks for this Andy,

I too was looking for AF Auto tune in the manual and was going nuts why I couldn't see it, so appreciate your investigations!  ;D

Regards

Marc

dibyendumajumdar

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #148 on: March 28, 2016, 22:36:23 »
@Erik and @Andy - thank you for the responses.

Andy

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #149 on: March 28, 2016, 23:04:35 »
DPReview published their first D5/D4s StudioComparisonHighIsoNoiseScene
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0715893019/nikon-d5-studio-scene-comparison-published
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=nikon_d5&attr13_1=nikon_d4s&attr13_2=canon_eos1dx&attr13_3=sony_a7sii&attr15_0=jpeg&attr15_1=jpeg&attr15_2=jpeg&attr15_3=jpeg&attr16_0=100&attr16_1=100&attr16_2=100&attr16_3=100&attr171_2=off&attr171_3=off&normalization=full&widget=1&x=-0.0030276816608996904&y=-0.0014892443463871783

I would not be surprised if over time we will see 2 trends:
1) The internet community interpreting valid measurements asking the "Why shall I upgrade question".
2) In the same time users are enjoying the combined capabilities of the new tool.

This raises potentially two related questions:
1) Do we need better measurement metrics reflecting a new broader set of emerging attributes (noise pattern design, SW processing algorithms, ease of producing a "final" image, etc ....) or,
2) are users increasingly decoupling their "user experience" from underlying and existing "hard" metrics?

Hmmm, what's your view?

rgds, Andy